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Answerman - Is It Safe To Replace My Discs With Streaming?


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Zof



Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 200
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:30 am Reply with quote
Shiflan wrote:
Zof wrote:

Tired?

0 3 * * * /root/bin/clonemedia.sh


Yeah, tired. Online backups of a big video library aren't an option for many people. I live in a rural area, my internet speed is barely 1 mb/s. That's on a good day.

It does sound like we're on the same page though. Whether it be a hard drive or an optical disk, just about anything beats relying on streaming sites only like the question asked.


That kinda depends how you treat anime, but agreed. Some folks treat it like their TV. They aren't keeping episodes. They aren't like me where, I want to show someone the amazing ending to Grimgar, or the most touching episode of Ergo Proxy (episode 19), or I want to feel Concrete Revoltio again, or I'm trying to remember something funny Despair Sensei said, I don't want to be finding out that Anime disappeared a week ago because Big Anime is fighting with Big Streaming again. I want it on my phone, ready to shoot to their Chromecast.
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Spawn29



Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 427
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:00 am Reply with quote
People should hold on to physical media because it is always useful. A lot of movies and other media survive today because we hold to them for so long. If you lose your digital copy, you still have your own physical copy to back things up.

It also saves hard drive space. With DVD and Blu-Rays, I don't have to worry about wasting space on my PC hard drive, my Ipad or my phone. Streaming websites won't have the TV show or movies on their website forever. If I own something on DVD or Blu-Ray, I can watch anytime I want too. Not to mention stuff like Netflix or Hulu won't always have the shows or movies you want. For example, if I want to watch an obscure anime like Detonator Orgun, it won't be on Netflix. That's why I still own my DVD copy from 2009 because you can't find a legit way to watch it online.

Also if the titles that you download end up getting deleted or somehow destroy, you can't always re-download the TV show or movie if the company no longer has the license to that title. Also stuff like Itunes, won't let you re-download movies, TV shows and music seeing that you will get a "Your computer is not authorize to play or watch this song, movies or TV show" message.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 2747
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:14 am Reply with quote
Stampeed Valkyrie wrote:
I just had a very similar discussion about this topic with my brother.. (who is 18 years younger then me btw) and it's largely an age thing.

I'm not surprised to see the answers in this thread because ANN has a much higher percentage of people who buy physical media than any other anime forum I know of.

I suspect if someone asked this question at MAL, it would be met with a lot of Shocked

I hardly buy any physical media any more except for the occasional movie like Miss Hokusai. Otherwise I use streaming services.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 3805
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:34 am Reply with quote
Zof wrote:
I have this awesome physical media called a Hard Drive. It's made out of metal instead of plastic like my DVD's. Also, I can read... AND write to that physical media. So it's like a DVD but ten times better. What I do is, since it's a superior physical media (I think it's because it uses electricity somehow. I see wires going into it that my DVD's do not have) I can make a full copy of it easily every day onto an identical Hard Drive. So I'll never lose my collection.


And this is a magnet--Watch what happens when I put it on a Blu-ray disk:
(bzzt!)
Hmm...Nothing! Very Happy Gee, that's what happens with books, too, wonder if there's any connection?

TheTheory wrote:
I've been going hard in on digital over the last five years with books, music, and movies/tv. I worry a bit about licensing issues--even though I'm "purchasing" them, I'm well aware that a digital purchase comes with a whole slew of issues that are not present with a physical purchase.

I'm not surprised at the brashly pro-physical arguments that dominate this thread. I am, however, surprised by the sentiment that there's no danger with physical and that it's yours forever and ever. You can lose discs, you can scratch discs, and even if you're one of those people who take perfect care of your physical media, discs will degrade over time. Maybe you will be able to play your Geneon-released Haibane Renmei DVD boxset in 2040, but maybe not.

And while people make a good point that you need Internet access to stream a title, whereas you can watch a Blu-ray without, there are portability/access problems with physical, too. If you want to watch stuff while travelling, physical requires both bringing a disc and having a way to play it. I do not miss having to lug my CD Wallet around stuffed with discs, nor lugging that wallet around and realizing mid-vacation that I want to be watching/listening to stuff I didn't bring.


When studios had to sell DRM, they had to face one big obstacle: It was a "solution" to a "problem" nobody had--except the studios--which is why no customers really saw the point of getting excited about it.
Which is why the sales copy had to make up problems for it, assume we had them already, and convince us how badly we were suffering that the solution was in sight.

Your post pretty much runs down the '11 snake-oil list of "Why We (Apparently) Hate Blu-ray Disks" that studios tried to sell us:
- "They take up too much space!"
- "Aren't you worried they might break?"
- "You can't take them with you on the go!"
- "They'll be safe if you know someone's watching over them!"

Long story short: We didn't...freakin'....BUY it. Literally and figuratively.

The other big selling point came from the fact that studios know absolutely nothing about the Internet (they firmly believe anyone who doesn't buy a disk or goes to see a theatrical movie must have "pirated it for free online")--And so they utterly believe the Hackers' Alibi-Dodge of "I have the RIGHT to a soft backup copy of all my games and movies, the Supreme Court said so!"
So, they tried using that one too:
- "Aren't you worried you don't have backup copies to your movies?"
(Um, no, I'm not an angry cheapskate hacker.)
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TheAncientOne



Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 1744
Location: USA (mid-south)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:25 pm Reply with quote
Just Passing Through wrote:

Pressed optical media doesn't get wiped by a high altitude EMP. I guess you don't have Terror in Resonance on your Hard Drive.

If a high altitude EMP is powerful enough to corrupt the data on a hard drive (much less wipe it), good luck finding a DVD or Blu-ray player that works to play your discs and a working display to view them on (not to mention a means of powering it all).

Likewise, the electronics on the hard drive would be far more likely to be rendered inoperable than the data being disturbed.


EricJ2 wrote:
[And this is a magnet--Watch what happens when I put it on a Blu-ray disk:
(bzzt!)
Hmm...Nothing! Very Happy Gee, that's what happens with books, too, wonder if there's any connection?

Have you tried a magnet on a modern hard drive? Better yet, have you disassembled one only to find out it has a more powerful magnet inside than most magnets you might have laying around your house?

As drive densities climbed, so did the coercivity (the amount of magnetic force required to change state) of the media.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3593
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:04 am Reply with quote
Also want to mention that hard drives and physical media are not mutually exclusive. I use both like many people with large collections (other than anime) do. I have my anime digitally ripped (by myself or others) for easy and much more convenient access and all my discs tucked away compactly in media boxes on shelves. This saves a lot of shelf space and the discs only serve as backup.

I've gone almost all digital in music simply because it's DRM free and I can store and backup permanently. It's the same reason I don't use the music streaming-only services either.
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OjaruFan2



Joined: 09 Jul 2018
Posts: 81
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:25 am Reply with quote
Although my anime and manga collections aren’t very big, I prefer to buy physical copies of series that I really like so that I’ll be guaranteed access to it, something that isn’t the case with streaming platforms, unless you download webrips/webrip it yourself.
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Mr. sickVisionz
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Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 1931
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:54 am Reply with quote
I don't really think of streaming a show as having it in my collection so I'm not replacing my BDs with streams or "collecting" streams.

Streaming is my preferred way of watching anime. For all the reasons listed in the original article. However, when I fall in love with a show I want to show support for it that goes beyond whatever cut my CR subscription provides. I buy those shows and streaming will never replace making a real world purchase for what I want.

Now, maybe art books, soundtracks, figures and trinkets will replace me supporting via BDs, but I want something physical to show my fandom and financial support. Streaming doesn't satisfy that part of it for me at all.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 3805
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:13 pm Reply with quote
Mr. sickVisionz wrote:
I don't really think of streaming a show as having it in my collection so I'm not replacing my BDs with streams or "collecting" streams.


How do you "collect streams", that's the part I can't figure out? Confused

Again, it's the problem of people confusing Streaming = DRM, because they're two industries both so new, nifty and unfamiliar to the public at the moment, offering nominally similar-sounding things through the same devices.
And, because more people are excited about watching Netflix instead of cable TV (and paying only once a month instead of paying DRM's "Season passes" for every single thing they watch), that the industry pretty well dumped DRM over for the public's Streaming-Mania, and took all their attention there.

But it's not even the SAME IDEA. Streaming is "What you watch instead of cable-TV". It's the pot-luck you used to sit down and watch on broadcast when you were in a mood not to care what you watched at random, only now it's less pot-luck if you can choose from a menu.
That's not something you "collect" or "archive", any more than you could "collect" Thursday night's episode of Seinfeld. Unless, of course, you bought it on disk.
Streaming has become the replacement for disposable temporary viewing, while DRM tried (and failed) to become the replacement for permanent collection. Have we actually, functionally forgotten the difference between the two?

(And that's a serious question:
Just recently, when classic-film streaming site Filmstruck packed up, as Warner wanted to save their classics for their own new branded service, mainstream people literally acted as if it was the end of the world for all ability to see classic films--THE end--and rallied to "save our film preservation" by keeping the service intact.
Why?--Because in the last seven years, while DRM-hungry studios tried to convince us with wishful made-up pronouncements that "Everyone's been saying that disk is dying!", the public has worked that into their new cable-jilted love affair with Streaming, to the point that they believe "If it's not on Streaming, it doesn't exist".
Go ahead, try and suggest that a young person look up a classic DVD at the library. Ten bucks if he won't go to look up a mangled YouTube upload first, assuming he doesn't check Netflix to see if it's there.)


Last edited by EricJ2 on Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Narutofreak1412



Joined: 22 Feb 2015
Posts: 192
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:25 pm Reply with quote
For me, a streaming site will never replace a disc version, simply because the disc version is the "true" version, while crunchy usually only has the lesser quality tv version. And I'm not talking about the encoding.
Like almost every flashy action scene gets artifically darkened because of japanese epilepsy regulations. It's everywhere; in Naruto's/Boruto's well animated fight scenes, in Attack on Titans 3DMG scenes, in My Hero Academia's Bakugo Explosions and many many more. They also tend to shift frames into each other to make the animation look blurry and less straining for the eye.
Also, of course the more graphic shows in terms of violence or erotic fansercive will be censored on tv and like that in most cases also be censored on simulcast streaming sites.
And lastly, they often redraw/fix certain shots and cuts, that were rushed on the tv version, sometimes even adding missing cuts/scenes.

While I appreciate Crunchy and other streaming sites for making so much stuff legally available and I use their services myself, it will never replace the disc version and will always be like a "lets watch it for now, but in case I like it, wait for the disc version" thing for me.
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Chichiryuutei



Joined: 08 May 2013
Posts: 122
Location: Silicon Valley
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:43 am Reply with quote
I learned this the hard way during AX16 (Bodacious Space Pirates disappeared from Crunchyroll). I knew talking to Crunchyroll staff about it wouldn't do anything but still decided to hit their stand and ask what happened. Nobody knew. That's the streaming world. It's convenient but nobody needs to know when stuff will disappear (the irony of it been digital).

If you love an anime/manga series then buy the hard copy. No one can't take it away from you. If you want to be extra safe then download the files of your collection to a HDD (and make a clone of it).

I'm extremely proud of my collection (my brothers love it) but do understand that it takes a financial commitment that others might not be capable of doing. I'd suggest that if you really really love a series to make a plan to buy it (on sale I.e. BF, holidays deals, etc). I essentially go 6 months without purchasing something and then boom I buy >$300 worth of anime/manga in a day because it's on sale.
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Mr. sickVisionz
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Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:04 pm Reply with quote
EricJ2 wrote:
stuff


You quoted me but was any of that supposed to apply to me?
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Gurren Rodan



Joined: 04 Jan 2018
Posts: 78
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:19 pm Reply with quote
I seem to be an outlier among most of my friends in buying physical media still - Blu-rays for video, and CDs for music. No, I haven't opened all of my movies yet, and no, I don't often plug in my CDs to listen (since I rip them onto my computer and phone); but I buy them because I've seen/heard them already, and I liked them enough that I want to revisit them in the future whenever I want, or share them with a friend who isn't familiar with it yet. I don't want to rely solely on various streaming sites who may or may not have the title I want, which I and my friends might not even all be subscribed to. I was just getting into Kyoto Animation's shows when Crunchyroll's Bandai visual licenses started expiring, so I was stuck halfway through Haruhi Suzumiya and couldn't even touch Lucky Star (well, not legally...). You should have seen how excited I was when Funimation finally released Nichijou on home video. That's not even mentioning how iffy internet connection can be in some places.
Another, even more personal preference to my purchasing discs is that, frankly, I find it much more satisfying to watch something in a traditional player-to-TV format. I'm just old enough to be part of the VHS generations, and as convenient as it is to watch stuff from my room through my laptop, it never feels as... authentic... as watching stuff through the TV. Sure, ROKU solves most of that, but I think even the action of inserting the hard copy lends a certain legitimacy which makes a viewing feel more worthwhile to me.
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Actar



Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 945
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:36 am Reply with quote
Call me old-fashioned, but I cannot understand how people are okay with not actually owning the things that they buy. I will only say yes if services provide DRM-free direct downloads and the ability to watch whatever I want, whenever I want without the threat of losing anything.

Oh, yes. REGION BLOCKING.
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Shiflan



Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 403
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:33 am Reply with quote
Gurren Rodan wrote:

Another, even more personal preference to my purchasing discs is that, frankly, I find it much more satisfying to watch something in a traditional player-to-TV format. I'm just old enough to be part of the VHS generations, and as convenient as it is to watch stuff from my room through my laptop, it never feels as... authentic... as watching stuff through the TV. Sure, ROKU solves most of that, but I think even the action of inserting the hard copy lends a certain legitimacy which makes a viewing feel more worthwhile to me.


Agreed. It really is a different experience. Sure, I do play music from MP3 on my PC, use portable players, and sometimes use streaming radio like Pandora....but that's really for background music where I'm not paying much attention. Super casual. When I want to sit down and listen to music there's no replacement for physical media and a nice stereo. It's a more involved experience when you're talking the disc (or tape) out of its packaging, looking at the album's art and liner notes, etc.

I like the convenience of streaming services and MP3 playlists but like a lot of other things in modern society it trades off quality for convenience. That's OK if I just want to hear something while I'm mowing the yard but it does not satisfy when the music is the focus rater than a distraction.

One of the great ironies of modern technology, IMHO, is that while video quality has gotten much better over the years with newer tech like DVD and BD, audio has had the opposite problem. With few exceptions, everything since the invention of reel-to-reel tape has been a step down in quality in exchange for convenience.


Actar wrote:
Call me old-fashioned, but I cannot understand how people are okay with not actually owning the things that they buy.


Agreed 100%.
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