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INTEREST: Precure Anime Series Welcomes Its First Magical Boy


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Stuart Smith



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 1298
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:22 pm Reply with quote
ZodiacBeast wrote:
I'm sorry, but to me this feels so...awkward. I support everybody's rights, but Cures are female-

Dang it, I did it again. See? It's awkward. Guys are "supposed" to be like the "Extra Heroes" (NOT "Sixth Ranger(s)") in PreCure.


I've noticed a lot of women are upset by this and who feel like their hobby is being encroached upon. And to be fair there's a probability that this is a one time thing given he didn't have a real transformation sequence or an attack sequence, similar to previous characters like Cure Gorilla. We'll have to wait and see.

Although I have to admit it is a bit funny to see the reverse happening for once with women being told they have to share their hobby with men now and to be more welcoming since magical girls are no longer a girls club.

-Stuart Smith
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Stuart Smith



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 1298
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:36 pm Reply with quote
I would advise against watching it if [seeing biologically male characters that can pass as female] is your motivation. Henri is a minor character who only shows up once in awhile and nobody mistakes him for being a girl, so he's not meant to fulfill that kind of archetype. He's just a regular guy, although admittedly boys in Precure tend to be fairly effeminate.

-Stuart Smith

[EDIT: Context added from deleted post ~Zalis]
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Cutiebunny



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 1746
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:22 am Reply with quote
I guess the part that gets me about this whole thing is why does this even matter? I could care less if a PreCure is male, female, not human (I wants a Cure Hummy!), has a different color skin tone, etc. Are they a well designed character that advances the plot? Great. Welcome to the franchise. If they're just inserted into the story with little thought other than pandering to a certain group of people, then GTFO.

I've never understood the need to have a character that panders to every personality type, race, sexual preference or trait that exists, and that goes for US productions as well. It's gotten to the point, particularly in US series, where that specific trait is what is consistently touted rather than how this character contributes to the series, such as when Crunchyroll announced High Guardian Spice by focusing on the diversity of their staff (read: Mostly women). I don't need (or want) a redhead in every production because us redheads are grossly unrepresented in the media. What I want is a solid, coherent story with characters that I can root for, regardless of race, gender, sexual preference, etc.
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4787
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:39 am Reply with quote
The fact so many in this thread feel threatened by the idea of a gay magical boy is enough proof of why it is needed to combat such closed mindedness.
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Chester McCool



Joined: 06 Jan 2016
Posts: 322
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:48 am Reply with quote
I.. what? I really don't get what you people are on about. Both the anti-LGBT people and pro-LGBT people like the very first post in this thread. Henri's not gay. He's not transgendered. I don't get how this is anyway related to LGBT stuff. I'm starting to think that term has no real meaning anymore with out how often it gets thrown around.

I mean, sure, PreCure's always had yuribait, but I wouldn't say that's "LGBT" in the way westerners use the term. It's done for fanservice.
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4787
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:49 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Henri's not gay. He's not transgendered. I don't get how this is anyway related to LGBT stuff. I'm starting to think that term has no real meaning anymore with out how often it gets thrown around.
I'm not sure how you can say that and ignore all the times he's been openly flirting with Emiru's brother. Are you just completely ignoring Junichi Sato's past work in magical girl anime?
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:17 am Reply with quote
Please note that posts creating an unwelcome atmosphere for marginalized groups will be edited or removed. In particular, the use of "trap" when referring to transgender individuals is not tolerated in these parts.
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John Hayabusa



Joined: 30 May 2012
Posts: 1270
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:28 am Reply with quote
@octopodpie I noticed that most of the ground-breaking Precure articles in this site revolve around the males. So a dakimakura/body pillow of a male villain from Mahou Tsukai Precure is ground-breaking but the subject of two middleschool girls raising a baby together like a same-sex couple in that same season is not? You even outright stated that the latter was not worth getting an article because it "did not have enough e-mails in the desk."

Also, this is not exactly the first male Cure in the history. There have been at least two like Cure Sebastian from Doki Doki and that male Cure from Heartcatch, although they were just for laughs. This male Cure is most likely a one-off thing.
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Cutiebunny



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 1746
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:16 am Reply with quote
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
The fact so many in this thread feel threatened by the idea of a gay magical boy is enough proof of why it is needed to combat such closed mindedness.


I don't think people feel threatened. I think it's more along the lines of 'Why does this need to be pointed out?'. I, for one, could care less that there's a male PreCure as long as that character's male-ness(?) is needed in the storyline. Otherwise, why bother mentioning it - Anyone and everyone should be able to become a magical whatever in this day/age. What I don't like seeing is pandering for the sake of pandering, and I think the majority of comments I've read in this thread support this. The fact that there's an article on ANN mentioning that there's a male PreCure seems to support the idea that this is pandering for the sake of pandering. Had that not been the case, the article's header might have read something like "PreCure Infini, the latest PreCure, saves the day" or something along those lines.

Look at it like this. Let's say some franchise with predominately male characters, like the Despicable Me franchise, introduced a female minion. Great but...what does mentioning the new character's gender contribute to the franchise? Is she going to rub her hands together, pull pranks on Gru and plot to take over the world with the rest of the minions, or is the fact that she's a female going to be her sole defining trait and contribution to the franchise?

It's 2018 and while I realize that homosexuality is still a difficult issue for many cultures around the world, I don't think it should be harped on as much as it is. Add male PreCure characters. Add ethnic female Super Saiyan warriors to Dragonball. Stop making it such a big deal that these characters are (insert sexual preference, ethnicity, gender, religion) and make a good story.
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your fly is down



Joined: 14 Jan 2018
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:04 am Reply with quote
i am so confused

not by the article but by the peoples view and opinion of precure

granted its 42 episodes in and at that point im not gonna watch it but i think all i can do is watch this one episode and see how the character is handled in story.

as far as CCS is concerned the whole "love irrespective of everything" came across but i did feel the lesbian pairing was only a token gesture with the intent to appeal to people with a fetish for it. then again i didn't see the original and only a few episodes of clear card.

precure might be trying to have more of a message but i cant spend time watching every show that has a following, ima stick to gridman, jojo and bloom into you for now.
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palom



Joined: 16 Apr 2017
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:31 am Reply with quote
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
I think this is a big moment not just for Precure but for magical girl anime as a whole. While we've had parody shows like Cute High and shows that have magical boys in them like Shugo Chara and even Sailor Moon's Tuxedo Mask to an extent, we've never had a serious magical boy show before, not counting Saint Seiya and Ronin Warriors. So I hope this will lead to a new trend for both more openly LGBTQ+ characters in Precure and for more serious magical boy shows to be made.


Felicity dash wrote:


No he means something more on the lines of madoka. Where it had a full-female cast with a serious plot.


I don't know, I think Nanoha had a lot of magical boys in the main cast, not full focused of them, but doing important functions and not just being "the male token" as Tuxedo mask.

For example:


[img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/nanoha/images/1/1e/SVC_1st_Sheet016a.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20101010052028[/img]


Last edited by palom on Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:37 am; edited 2 times in total
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Mew Berry



Joined: 02 Apr 2016
Posts: 186
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:23 am Reply with quote
So as a woman and a longtime magical girl fan (since someone mentioned that this is the demographic most likely to be upset by this, and from experience I don't really disagree), my opinion is that this is great. Last season, Pikario was my favorite character, and I thought it was actually kind of crappy that he didn't get to become a Precure like he said he wanted to just because he was a boy. Henri is also a great character whose central message is that he can be as feminine as he wants to be despite still identifying as a boy, which I think is a great message for kids. I don't think any kid should feel like they can't be what they want to because of their gender, and I felt like the way Pikario was handled sent the message that no, they can't. Henri's story completely smashed that implication.
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ChestPains



Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 101
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:55 am Reply with quote
your fly is down wrote:
i am so confused

not by the article but by the peoples view and opinion of precure

granted its 42 episodes in and at that point im not gonna watch it but i think all i can do is watch this one episode and see how the character is handled.


You're not going to see anything because Henri's development was across multiple episodes and just watching the one where he's a cure will do absolutely nothing for the character.

As for the actual news, I'm glad. I like Henri, he's a good character.
Hugtto has had multiple strong adult themes handled in a very progressive manner that never felt forced or like pandering. Hell, the whole point of the show is telling girls they can be anything they want, all they did was expand that to say boys can be anything they want too, even if it is effeminate, and that it's not a problem at all.
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 2930
Location: Email for assistance only
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:18 am Reply with quote
John Hayabusa wrote:
@octopodpie I noticed that most of the ground-breaking Precure articles in this site revolve around the males. So a dakimakura/body pillow of a male villain from Mahou Tsukai Precure is ground-breaking but the subject of two middleschool girls raising a baby together like a same-sex couple in that same season is not? You even outright stated that the latter was not worth getting an article because it "did not have enough e-mails in the desk."

Also, this is not exactly the first male Cure in the history. There have been at least two like Cure Sebastian from Doki Doki and that male Cure from Heartcatch, although they were just for laughs. This male Cure is most likely a one-off thing.


Have we already had this conversation in a past PreCure thread?

Quote:
"You even outright stated that the latter was not worth getting an article because it "did not have enough e-mails in the desk."


If you're going to quote me, you're not going to twist my words around to make it sound like I ignored leads because I didn't get enough of them about yuri vs yaoi. I wrote:

Quote:
So, no you're not "in trouble" but the idea that the staff dislikes yuri because none of us could have legally watched the previous season and follow along is a stretch. I'm aware that two girls in the previous season had an out and out romantic relationship but I only found out after the fact when I saw stuff on Twitter. These are the kinds of things that make great e-mail leads if people want to send them to my desk at Interest.


There weren't articles about that particular relationship because I wasn't aware of it at the time that it was news. That's all.

Cutiebunny wrote:
The fact that there's an article on ANN mentioning that there's a male PreCure seems to support the idea that this is pandering for the sake of pandering. Had that not been the case, the article's header might have read something like "PreCure Infini, the latest PreCure, saves the day" or something along those lines.


The point of the article is that the development is a change-up to the series formula which is explained in the article and viewers are excited about it. There's no implied "pandering" based on our headline.
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2377
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:56 am Reply with quote
Cutiebunny wrote:
I don't think people feel threatened. I think it's more along the lines of 'Why does this need to be pointed out?'.


The importance of inclusivety in a show like this is that it provides role models for the young kids and audience who watch it. It doesn't matter to everyone, but for people like myself growing up, I always loved being feminine as a boy. I'm not gay or anything, but every corner I turn, femininity in boys is often 1) treated as wrong/weakness, 2) treated as a joke, or 3) an antagonist trait. I looked up to female/feminine heroes (Bubbles in PPG, nearly everyone in Sailor Moon, Sakura in CCS, Kari/Hikari and Rika/Ruki in Digimon, Ichigo in TMM, Pink Ranger in the Western PR, etc.) throughout my life more than male heroes (I never particularly looked up to Goku, Ash/Satoshi, Red Ranger, etc.). All that time, I was told over and over, by lots of different people, that I was weird/wrong for it, which shaped how I felt about myself as a kid. Characters like Henri rarely show up, even today, so it's a big deal to say "this is okay" and I wish I had that message growing up. It's being brought up on ANN because this is truly a neat stepping stone to allow for more discussion in Japan over social issues like this and it's getting a lot of buzz in Japan. On a side note, it's not necessarily strict representation of LGBT (yet), but the issue of gender expression is so involved in LGBT issues, it resonates with the LGBT community very well.
Also, ANN has had a pretty iffy time bringing up LGBT in the past because of a lot of pretty awful comments would bring it down, so it's kinda nice to see things change.

You also brought up why it mattered to the story, which is another good point. Pandering for the sake of pandering doesn't help anyone and makes those characters forgettable. Hugtto doesn't suffer from this, thankfully. Inclusivety/acceptance has been a frequent theme in PreCure, but especially this season, so it's thematically consistent. Theme aside, Henri's story has been developed gradually over time and the events leading to his transformation into a PreCure were really well-written as far as I'm concerned as well. Pandering to a crowd or not, it was definitely in the plans for a long time, so whether you're part of that crowd or not, I do think it's a satisfying story element.

As for the women upset about this (probably none of whom are here on ANN, I assume?), I get it. PreCure is an important girl's empowerment tool (good show or not, a lot of girls watch it), so seeing a boy encroach in that territory kinda feels like an invasion of that empowerment. But think about it. Henri is a role model set to empower femininity, NOT to indicate that boys are better PreCures than girls. It would be hard to go in the latter direction, even with him as a starting point (and doing so would very much dismantle the whole point of him being in the show). He's more or less supporting that masculinity isn't the only way to grow stronger, even if you're a boy. In turn, it reinforces the message that femininity is valuable. Granted, you don't need a boy to tell you that, but he never was meant to be the spokesperson for the message. Just one of many other players, most of whom are all female.
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