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ultimatehaki



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 1090
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:36 pm Reply with quote
Takkun4343 wrote:
The more I read about Shield Hero, the more I want to actively avoid watching it. Not even SAO was that bad, and that had legitimate attempted rape.


Its not nearly as bad as what the "controversy" says it is(or bad at all IMO). Unless you're just EXTREMELY sensitive to slavery.
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scowler



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 92
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:43 pm Reply with quote
If you buy the premise of Shield Hero, which claims that society in that world is matriarchal led, then it stands to reason that false rape would be somewhat more weaponized.

I think the problem is, there is not much evidence yet on display of matriarchy.
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jenthehen



Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 835
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:45 pm Reply with quote
scowler wrote:
If you buy the premise of Shield Hero, which claims that society in that world is matriarchal led, then it stands to reason that false rape would be somewhat more weaponized.

I think the problem is, there is not much evidence yet on display of matriarchy.


Yeah, too bad there’s absolutely no evidence that this world is matriarchal - everyone in charge (including the summoners) have been men. The heroes are men. The women don’t dress or act in any way that implies a matriarchal society in any way.
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PrecureOjisan



Joined: 09 Jan 2018
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:51 pm Reply with quote
I seriously don't get what's the deal with people who find using rape as a plot point "controversial". For me using rape as a plot point is no different from using death, betrayal, love, or whatever. Using rape as a plot point is in no way "unnecessary" as using anything else. Nowadays when there's a media with rape in it it's automatically painted in a bad light as "controversial" or "distasteful" which is honestly getting tiring to read.

Another thing that boggles me is people treating isekai template as boring, mundane, and overused, but at the same time hails idol anime #9999 and cute girls doing cute things #∞ as fun and unique.
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ThrowMeOut



Joined: 10 Oct 2018
Posts: 259
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:52 pm Reply with quote
Yeah I went into Shield Hero expecting to haaaate it, but it's surprisingly watchable. It definitely has problematic elements, and isn't exactly the most unique, but I do appreciate that the main character is more than a bland self-insert that's super good at everything and is loved by all immediately. Conflict and tension, yay!
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FackuIkari



Joined: 31 Dec 2013
Posts: 411
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:54 pm Reply with quote
So no matter the context, situation or what the show actually shows, if it has even something related to rape or assault is a piece of shit, alright then, got it
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Ashabel



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 350
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:55 pm Reply with quote
jenthehen wrote:
Yeah, too bad there’s absolutely no evidence that this world is matriarchal - everyone in charge (including the summoners) have been men. The heroes are men. The women don’t dress or act in any way that implies a matriarchal society in any way.


The world of the Shield Hero and its society aren't matriarchal. The nation of Melromarc is, however, a matriarchy.

To say more at this point would be a spoiler to people who are only now getting into this through the anime.
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Hal14



Joined: 01 Apr 2018
Posts: 667
Location: Heart of africa
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:56 pm Reply with quote
jenthehen wrote:
scowler wrote:
If you buy the premise of Shield Hero, which claims that society in that world is matriarchal led, then it stands to reason that false rape would be somewhat more weaponized.

I think the problem is, there is not much evidence yet on display of matriarchy.


Yeah, too bad there’s absolutely no evidence that this world is matriarchal - everyone in charge (including the summoners) have been men. The heroes are men. The women don’t dress or act in any way that implies a matriarchal society in any way.


A matriarchy doesnt mean more women are in charge than men, it just means the person at the top is female and the line of succession is by the female children. Also, the society wouldnt be anymore "feminine" than normal just because a woman's in charge
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manapear



Joined: 02 May 2014
Posts: 1525
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:57 pm Reply with quote
Ashabel wrote:

Speaking as someone who picked up the Shield Hero novels very cautiously and in part just to see what all the controversy is about, I can peacefully say it ends up not being as bad as it sounds. Yes, both the slavery and the false rape accusation are iffy, but this is one of the few isekai novels that actually have convincing first-person writing (even if it means Naofumi quite clearly comes off as emotionally damaged and an unreliable narrator despite being the POV), and it has a surprisingly large and vivid cast of strong, nuanced female characters who actually manage to pass the Bechdel Test.

It's not a masterpiece by any means, but it's a very fun read and I was surprised by how much I grew attached to the main party.

Its one single issue actually plays into the "false rape accusation" part - all of the villains in Shield Hero are really super-exaggerated one-note raving lunatics who tend to do really over-the-top gross nonsense all the time so they can be recognized as villains, and the character responsible for the false accusation is included in that list. It basically doesn't have low-key evil. If someone is evil, they're freaking M.Bison levels of evil, complete with exaggerated quotations and maniacal laughter while explosions go off in the background.

If that sort of villain writing easily puts you off, then Shield Hero is not for you. Otherwise it's not nearly as gross or controversial as people make it out to be, and I honestly found it a few miles more feminist than a lot of the genre.


I remember coming by a random volume of the manga in the library, and kind of enjoying it. But then I heard of the anime adaption and then the controversy. Everything has left me very confused. The first episode does sound very trash, and it seems like isekai anime adaptions now do have a habit of spinning things around to suit a certain flavor or different demographic and direction than the LN. Does it seem like that could end up the case here?

Do the novels start pretty well with Naofumi being unreliable and developing? I would hope that if that's the case, the anime follows that example, but I'll at least pick up the manga again if the series does end up better than how it starts.
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Thespacemaster



Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 1108
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:00 pm Reply with quote
Nick i am so ashamed of you.

Do you really think that false accusations of rape is something to bash out and call the series bad cause it uses it? This show if anything highlighted a social stigma problem that people seriously like you are underestimating. i have seen lives ruined cause of false rape accusations and i like the fact that shield hero used it, in order to show how much of a sickening practice it is. granted it is not used in the best of scenario but that does not detriment what it is trying to show.

Im sorry but your status as a reviewer just went down like an avalanche for me. you really are not analysing this whole thing well. your whole review is about you basing on about that part where do you even think talk about anything else?
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Ashabel



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 350
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:10 pm Reply with quote
manapear wrote:
I remember coming by a random volume of the manga in the library, and kind of enjoying it. But then I heard of the anime adaption and then the controversy. Everything has left me very confused. The first episode does sound very trash, and it seems like isekai anime adaptions now do have a habit of spinning things around to suit a certain flavor or different demographic and direction than the LN. Does it seem like that could end up the case here?

Do the novels start pretty well with Naofumi being unreliable and developing? I would hope that if that's the case, the anime follows that example, but I'll at least pick up the manga again if the series does end up better than how it starts.


I would say that Naofumi is still an unreliable narrator even as far as the recent volumes. The experience with the false accusation has left him severely emotionally damaged and that consistently colors his perspective of events, as well as forces his companions to dance around his emotional problems.

That aside, Shield Hero does have an unfortunate case where a very particular section of the internet that isn't very famous for critical thinking, latched onto the false rape accusation part of the premise and decided to make a huge deal out of it with the express purpose of misrepresenting the story as "a critique of the #metoo movement" (nevermind that the novel was published six years ago, long before the movement even existed) in order to "piss off the snowflakes and the libtards".

The irony here is that the critique ends up to be one of ultra-conservatism and religious nuttery associated with it, but acknowledging that would involve reading the entire first story arc of the books instead of having a deranged wank over the first eight chapters of it.

Note: it took me three days to read the first four volumes of the book, which comprise the first story arc. It's really not a difficult or a complicated read.
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D.E.D.E



Joined: 15 Mar 2014
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:24 pm Reply with quote
Ashabel wrote:
manapear wrote:
I remember coming by a random volume of the manga in the library, and kind of enjoying it. But then I heard of the anime adaption and then the controversy. Everything has left me very confused. The first episode does sound very trash, and it seems like isekai anime adaptions now do have a habit of spinning things around to suit a certain flavor or different demographic and direction than the LN. Does it seem like that could end up the case here?

Do the novels start pretty well with Naofumi being unreliable and developing? I would hope that if that's the case, the anime follows that example, but I'll at least pick up the manga again if the series does end up better than how it starts.


I would say that Naofumi is still an unreliable narrator even as far as the recent volumes. The experience with the false accusation has left him severely emotionally damaged and that consistently colors his perspective of events, as well as forces his companions to dance around his emotional problems.

That aside, Shield Hero does have an unfortunate case where a very particular section of the internet that isn't very famous for critical thinking, latched onto the false rape accusation part of the premise and decided to make a huge deal out of it with the express purpose of misrepresenting the story as "a critique of the #metoo movement" (nevermind that the novel was published six years ago, long before the movement even existed) in order to "piss off the snowflakes and the libtards".

The irony here is that the critique ends up to be one of ultra-conservatism and religious nuttery associated with it, but acknowledging that would involve reading the entire first story arc of the books instead of having a deranged wank over the first eight chapters of it.

Note: it took me three days to read the first four volumes of the book, which comprise the first story arc. It's really not a difficult or a complicated read.


It’s good to see someone ACTUALLY analyse the story fairly and not immediately jump on a bandwagon. The story has its issues and it’s not for everyone, as some of the reviewers have highlighted, but Nick’s is by far one of the worst, reactional hit pieces I’ve seen. Are we seriously gonna pretend that because the author wrote a fictional story, that’s some how an extension of his view of the world? If so, should we go back and retroactively react to movies like Gone Girl? Lmao. Yeah if anything, these reviews are a good indicator as to who’s biased and who isn’t in their writing.
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Hal14



Joined: 01 Apr 2018
Posts: 667
Location: Heart of africa
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:29 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
It’s good to see someone ACTUALLY analyse the story fairly and not immediately jump on a bandwagon. The story has its issues and it’s not for everyone, as some of the reviewers have highlighted, but Nick’s is by far one of the worst, reactional hit pieces I’ve seen. Are we seriously gonna pretend that because the author wrote a fictional story, that’s some how an extension of his view of the world? If so, should we go back and retroactively react to movies like Gone Girl? Lmao. Yeah if anything, these reviews are a good indicator as to who’s biased and who isn’t in their writing.


Laughing Can you imagine the kind of shitstorm that would be created if Gone Girl had been released in 2018?
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Izanagi009



Joined: 20 Oct 2014
Posts: 464
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:34 pm Reply with quote
#810704 wrote:
Ashabel wrote:
manapear wrote:
I remember coming by a random volume of the manga in the library, and kind of enjoying it. But then I heard of the anime adaption and then the controversy. Everything has left me very confused. The first episode does sound very trash, and it seems like isekai anime adaptions now do have a habit of spinning things around to suit a certain flavor or different demographic and direction than the LN. Does it seem like that could end up the case here?

Do the novels start pretty well with Naofumi being unreliable and developing? I would hope that if that's the case, the anime follows that example, but I'll at least pick up the manga again if the series does end up better than how it starts.


I would say that Naofumi is still an unreliable narrator even as far as the recent volumes. The experience with the false accusation has left him severely emotionally damaged and that consistently colors his perspective of events, as well as forces his companions to dance around his emotional problems.

That aside, Shield Hero does have an unfortunate case where a very particular section of the internet that isn't very famous for critical thinking, latched onto the false rape accusation part of the premise and decided to make a huge deal out of it with the express purpose of misrepresenting the story as "a critique of the #metoo movement" (nevermind that the novel was published six years ago, long before the movement even existed) in order to "piss off the snowflakes and the libtards".

The irony here is that the critique ends up to be one of ultra-conservatism and religious nuttery associated with it, but acknowledging that would involve reading the entire first story arc of the books instead of having a deranged wank over the first eight chapters of it.

Note: it took me three days to read the first four volumes of the book, which comprise the first story arc. It's really not a difficult or a complicated read.


It’s good to see someone ACTUALLY analyse the story fairly and not immediately jump on a bandwagon. The story has its issues and it’s not for everyone, as some of the reviewers have highlighted, but Nick’s is by far one of the worst, reactional hit pieces I’ve seen. Are we seriously gonna pretend that because the author wrote a fictional story, that’s some how an extension of his view of the world? If so, should we go back and retroactively react to movies like Gone Girl? Lmao. Yeah if anything, these reviews are a good indicator as to who’s biased and who isn’t in their writing.


The idea that an author's work is an extension of his view point is a part of some media critical theories. It does make sense at points, just as people who believe in death of the author would argue that the intent of the author matters far less than the reader's own experiences, a similar logic can apply to the idea of an author's works being influenced by his life.

also, Bias is an inherent part of review, no review is truly objective unless it can somehow take the entirety of human experience into account. As for Gone Girl, that was a self contained story that was in one book with no continuation. As such, all of it's points and themes are more upfront compared to the first episode of a show. At the same time though, if this is what the first episode has, it does beg some questions.

Regardless, I admittedly have no real stake in this fight other than the state of critical theory in relation to anime so i will leave it at that.
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Takkun4343



Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 1499
Location: Englewood, Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:35 pm Reply with quote
Ashabel wrote:
Speaking as someone who picked up the Shield Hero novels very cautiously and in part just to see what all the controversy is about, I can peacefully say it ends up not being as bad as it sounds. Yes, both the slavery and the false rape accusation are iffy, but this is one of the few isekai novels that actually have convincing first-person writing (even if it means Naofumi quite clearly comes off as emotionally damaged and an unreliable narrator despite being the POV), and it has a surprisingly large and vivid cast of strong, nuanced female characters who actually manage to pass the Bechdel Test.

It's not a masterpiece by any means, but it's a very fun read and I was surprised by how much I grew attached to the main party.

Its one single issue actually plays into the "false rape accusation" part - all of the villains in Shield Hero are really super-exaggerated one-note raving lunatics who tend to do really over-the-top gross nonsense all the time so they can be recognized as villains, and the character responsible for the false accusation is included in that list. It basically doesn't have low-key evil. If someone is evil, they're freaking M.Bison levels of evil, complete with exaggerated quotations and maniacal laughter while explosions go off in the background.

If that sort of villain writing easily puts you off, then Shield Hero is not for you. Otherwise it's not nearly as gross or controversial as people make it out to be, and I honestly found it a few miles more feminist than a lot of the genre.

ultimatehaki wrote:
Its not nearly as bad as what the "controversy" says it is(or bad at all IMO). Unless you're just EXTREMELY sensitive to slavery.

Trust me, the one-dimensional villain thing doesn't bother me at all, and neither does the fantasy land slavery angle. It's the whole "aftermath of the rape accusation" thing that gets under my skin. Reading about the initial reactions in-show to a plot device so controversial, it makes me feel that were I to watch the show, I'd be less inclined to root for the Shield Hero and more to hate every other character, especially the other three heroes and the [EXPLETIVE DELETED] who framed him in the first place. I apologize if that comes off as immature and misdirected, but that's just the way I imagine I'd view things were I to actually give Shield Hero a shot. I probably will in the future, more likely than not through happenstance (in the form of a Toonami broadcast, maybe?), but for now, I'm just gonna keep my distance, promises of a positive turn-around considered.
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