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INTEREST: Eisner Winning Manga Creator Gengoroh Tagame Laments End of Adult Gay Manga Mags




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Яeverse



Joined: 16 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:50 pm Reply with quote
Could start a digital anthology web magazine.
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zawa113
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:20 pm Reply with quote
Aww, I feel a bit sad, he can still do what he loves best in his spare time, but he can't make a pure living off it anymore. That said, My Brother's Husband is great stuff, it kind of makes me wish he could do a good mixture of both.

I do agree with Reverse though, he's going to have to go online. Times have changed, doujinshi or online is the new way of the future.
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Dop.L



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:23 pm Reply with quote
I'd guess a lot of that stuff is just moving online.

I'd be interested to see if his current work gets a release, as My Brother's Husband was absolutely brilliant.
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Romuska
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:37 pm Reply with quote
I love his work! I hope he goes independent. I’d gladly support him.
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Daisylock



Joined: 04 Jan 2019
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:49 pm Reply with quote
"This isn't the result of a deliberate choice by Tagame himself--gay adult manga magazines were a dying breed and with the final issue of Badi magazine on January 25, there will be only one left."

Does that include yaoi/BL?
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Meongantuk



Joined: 03 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:15 pm Reply with quote
Daisylock wrote:
"This isn't the result of a deliberate choice by Tagame himself--gay adult manga magazines were a dying breed and with the final issue of Badi magazine on January 25, there will be only one left."

Does that include yaoi/BL?


No, BL is still as popular as ever, but actual gay manga is niche among niche. Not sure if he wanted to move to BL mags considering he dislike BL.
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manapear



Joined: 02 May 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:46 am Reply with quote
Just a nitpick, but hasn't Tagame himself talked about how it's not called bara in Japan, but just geikomi? Funny enough, Soraya Saga had a recent Tweet where she translated these kind of terms and it showed up there too. (Just funny timing.)

Times are changing, and it's sad to see so many magazines going away. It hurts me to see so many shojo ones disappear (get absorbed, but at least some go digital), but that hurts a different kind of demographic when magazines for the gay audience disappear. It's kind of more frustrating since BL magazines aren't really disappearing in the same way. I'll have to keep an eye out for some books that may elaborate on the circumstances in the future.
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SailorTralfamadore



Joined: 25 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:57 am Reply with quote
The sad side effect of greater LGBT acceptance is that we often lose things that are specifically for us, that were created out of a desperate need to escape homophobia. Either straight people who now find it "cool" take it over, or it just goes out of business due to lack of interest from either group. There's been a similar issue here with the loss of LGBT publications that don't seek out a broader audience, or the closure of gay and (especially) lesbian bars.

Which is frustrating, because as long as our society is still at root biased toward heterosexuality, we still kind of need those separate things sometimes. Even a lot of well-meaning straight cis people don't really "get" us or our desires, and it's also just so refreshing sometimes to be treated as "normal" for once instead of just a quirky exception. I know Tagame has criticized BL before and the fact is that a lot of gay men are less interested in it since it's so geared toward women's tastes, so I feel sad for Japanese gei comi readers to be losing that. I hope they don't end up in the sorry state lesbians are, where the pickings for yuri that actually seem interested in our desires are so slim...
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capt_bunny



Joined: 31 May 2015
Posts: 116
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:43 am Reply with quote
SailorTralfamadore wrote:
The sad side effect of greater LGBT acceptance is that we often lose things that are specifically for us, that were created out of a desperate need to escape homophobia. Either straight people who now find it "cool" take it over, or it just goes out of business due to lack of interest from either group. There's been a similar issue here with the loss of LGBT publications that don't seek out a broader audience, or the closure of gay and (especially) lesbian bars.

Which is frustrating, because as long as our society is still at root biased toward heterosexuality, we still kind of need those separate things sometimes. Even a lot of well-meaning straight cis people don't really "get" us or our desires, and it's also just so refreshing sometimes to be treated as "normal" for once instead of just a quirky exception. I know Tagame has criticized BL before and the fact is that a lot of gay men are less interested in it since it's so geared toward women's tastes, so I feel sad for Japanese gei comi readers to be losing that. I hope they don't end up in the sorry state lesbians are, where the pickings for yuri that actually seem interested in our desires are so slim...


I don't think its straight or cis people that are making them stop on purpose or take over. ^^'' I only say this because of a lot of shoujo magazines (the hetero manga magazines, supposedly) are pretty much gone now too. I don't think its that people who are straight cis people even to give the "desires" for those that are part of the LGBT+. I think that those in the community need to make a change. Do their own works instead of saying how there need to be more LGBT+ characters.

I say this as someone who isn't straight, nor sis. You are right that there is homophobia. I am not gonna deny that as I am Mexican. And they aren't the biggest LGBT+ supporters at all..... However, I do feel that those need to try to give so much support to those that are in the community instead of focusing on those that mainstream, big. I see boku no hero academia being so huge yet no one bats an eye from so many such as Yuureitou, Fukakai na Boku no Subete o (the main protag is non-binary), and there is a lot of works by Shimura Takako. CLAMP has many characters that have no gender, gay, bisexual too. Or you can make some works yourself! Not just with manga but showing a story to tell.

I truly hope that this wonderful artist who keeps drawing for the LGBT+ can gain as much popularity as he did with the magazines and online.

I'm not trying to bash/attack you rather hope you see why I say this and those that say what you do too. I truly think that the LGBT+ community is taking action but we are focusing on those that make some feel forced rather than us naturally making these works ourselves. To show that we don't want others to do do it for us and that we can take action and have the community heard that we can create as many wonderful stories/works like anyone else.

Tbh, I don't care about the genres. I don't mind anything that is "hetero", BL, and GL. I enjoy it as long as the plot is something I can enjoy. But I know there are some that do look at genres. I hope that there will be more creators that do fill or that they will give what those in or out of the LGBT+ community can enjoy.

That's just what I feel and think. Not going to force you as you know it's perfectly fine to disagree on some or all!
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Daisylock



Joined: 04 Jan 2019
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:13 am Reply with quote
Meongantuk wrote:
No, BL is still as popular as ever, but actual gay manga is niche among niche. Not sure if he wanted to move to BL mags considering he dislike BL.


What a relief. Smile

SailorTralfamadore wrote:
Which is frustrating, because as long as our society is still at root biased toward heterosexuality, we still kind of need those separate things sometimes. Even a lot of well-meaning straight cis people don't really "get" us or our desires, and it's also just so refreshing sometimes to be treated as "normal" for once instead of just a quirky exception. I know Tagame has criticized BL before and the fact is that a lot of gay men are less interested in it since it's so geared toward women's tastes, so I feel sad for Japanese gei comi readers to be losing that. I hope they don't end up in the sorry state lesbians are, where the pickings for yuri that actually seem interested in our desires are so slim...


I don't understand. Hetereosexual people are the huge majority, doesn't it make sense to cater to them? Women are the biggest market for yaoi so it only makes sense that most are made with women in mind. There are a lot more women out there than gay men.
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#884745
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:34 pm Reply with quote
It's because everything is online now.

Any niche, there's like 1/10 in print around today as 10, 20 years ago, but 10x as much total as 10, 20 years ago because of what's online.

Stop lamenting print and be glad for all the artists that don't have to wait for a publisher to give them one of the small handful of slots in those magazines in order to get their work to people, because they can post online.

. . . . . . . . ahahaha I'm pansexual and nonbinary and I write things with all nonbinary characters having all sorts of relationships, but since all of my characters have long hair, everyone would just say it doesn't count and label me as a straight woman writing BL... *sigh* But since it's not seme/uke stereotype stuff and there are females in it who are just as sexy as the males, a BL publisher would never accept it either, so like... the online atmosphere allows between-styles people to have a chance at all.
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Cave



Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:51 pm Reply with quote
#884745 wrote:

Stop lamenting print and be glad for all the artists that don't have to wait for a publisher to give them one of the small handful of slots in those magazines in order to get their work to people, because they can post online.


The downside though is getting lost in the ridiculously huge sea of online comics. A comic that could become an instant hit in a magazine can easily be lost because it just doesn't have enough exposure/advertising. Sad
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SailorTralfamadore



Joined: 25 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:53 pm Reply with quote
capt_bunny wrote:
I don't think its straight or cis people that are making them stop on purpose or take over. ^^'' I only say this because of a lot of shoujo magazines (the hetero manga magazines, supposedly) are pretty much gone now too. I don't think its that people who are straight cis people even to give the "desires" for those that are part of the LGBT+. I think that those in the community need to make a change. Do their own works instead of saying how there need to be more LGBT+ characters.

I say this as someone who isn't straight, nor sis. You are right that there is homophobia. I am not gonna deny that as I am Mexican. And they aren't the biggest LGBT+ supporters at all..... However, I do feel that those need to try to give so much support to those that are in the community instead of focusing on those that mainstream, big. I see boku no hero academia being so huge yet no one bats an eye from so many such as Yuureitou, Fukakai na Boku no Subete o (the main protag is non-binary), and there is a lot of works by Shimura Takako. CLAMP has many characters that have no gender, gay, bisexual too. Or you can make some works yourself! Not just with manga but showing a story to tell.


I think the parallel thing with shoujo magazines could also be tied to this in a way: As "women's" interests become more mainstream with the anime industry realizing how many women buy anime, there's less need to give them their "own" stuff. That's what I mean about it leading to more acceptance: the more mainstream a group becomes, the more their interests meld with the "general audience" and the less a need for their "own" spaces or magazines or whatever. But to me, when that happens, I think it often illuminates just what those specific spaces provide. In the case of a bar, it's nice that I can go into a regular "straight" bar and not get jeered at for holding hands with a woman, but I still prefer the space where I don't have to worry if approaching a woman that she might be straight and weirded out... a thing you still have to worry about unless you're in an expressly "lesbian" oriented bar. In the case of magazines, a lot of yuri aimed at "general audiences" just doesn't feel as authentic or like it speaks to what I'm looking for, because what straight men or straight women are looking at in yuri is going to be different from what a lesbian or bisexual woman is looking for, since our desires are different.

I also don't think there's anything "deliberate" about what straight people are doing here. This is kind of the natural result of more of them being genuinely interested in LGBT storylines, and that's a good thing. But it does mean stuff specifically for an LGBT audience and oriented around what we specifically want, stuff that centers us rather than treating us as an other, is less profitable.

Daisylock wrote:
I don't understand. Hetereosexual people are the huge majority, doesn't it make sense to cater to them? Women are the biggest market for yaoi so it only makes sense that most are made with women in mind. There are a lot more women out there than gay men.


Well, yeah, that's the point I'm trying to make. It's purely a money thing. And it's overall a good thing that more non-LGBT people are interested in LGBT characters and relationships. But the thing is that LGBT people are fundamentally looking for different things in these than straight cis people usually are, so that mainstreaming tends to mean that we don't find what we're looking for in media as we did before, when this stuff was only there for a "niche" audience that was more likely to be LGBT. This is true even in a really basic, fanservice-y sense: lesbians and bi women tend to find different things attractive in women than straight and bi men. The same is true with what gay and bi men are into in men vs. what straight and bi women are, particularly in the case of anime/manga. This is why gei comi has historically depicted very different body types compared to the willowy bishounen of BL.

Like, don't get me wrong, I get why publishers would do that. But it still kinda sucks for LGBT manga fans regardless.
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:38 am Reply with quote
Яeverse wrote:
Could start a digital anthology web magazine.

Honestly, with the decline in various manga print publications and the prices of printing, making an e-manga or web manga magazine seems best. Of course, this applies to any publication.
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1dbad



Joined: 12 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:41 am Reply with quote
Hope Our Colors gets licensed here. I'd also like to see the My Brother's Husband live-action series get a release, but that feels less probable...

Tagame said it best when he said it's the end of an era. It's sad there's only one magazine of that nature left. Hopefully it'll stick around, and we'll get some new (and likely digital) ones joining it.

I wonder if Tagame moving to general audiences series will get more gei comi artists to do the same? It's a shame to think the homes for explicit works are dwindling, but it would be nice to see more general audience works done by GBT men.
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