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NEWS: Archimedes no Taisen Live-Action Film's Teaser Reveals July Opening




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Nom De Plume De Fanboy
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 197
Location: inland US west, pretty rural
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:50 am Reply with quote
So, it's about ship building "budget irregularities"... hmmm. Is this going to be about violations of ship building treaties? Or bigger issues? I know there was a lot of grumbling in the US Navy in the 1930s that Imperial Japan built ships that were much larger than 1920s treaties allowed. There had been a big attempt at preventing an arms race in ships in the early 1920s, and some military types, Japanese and German, really didn't like what the treaties said, as restrictions on the power of their countries.

I hope this hits the bigger issues. I would love to see some treatment of then Imperial Japan's slide into militarism. There were people who opposed it. It's a part of history that has been avoided a lot, I think. I hope this addresses that in some way.

PS I haven't read the manga.
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TexZero



Joined: 25 Oct 2017
Posts: 205
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:42 am Reply with quote
Nom De Plume De Fanboy wrote:

I hope this hits the bigger issues. I would love to see some treatment of then Imperial Japan's slide into militarism. There were people who opposed it. It's a part of history that has been avoided a lot, I think. I hope this addresses that in some way.

PS I haven't read the manga.


Same but i don't know if it will ever happen. It's still kinda a sore spot with most media creators only having illusions to it in non-direct media analogs like Patlabor Movie 2.
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Wrangler



Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 1189
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:37 am Reply with quote
Isn't this is just work fiction though? Manga based film?

Personally its sort of what-if someone cared about stuff like that?

I'm not well up on social/culture of how Japan was prior to World War II breaking out, but i do get impression way people thought back then isn't what they do now.

This sort of to me recreationism, re-doing history to fit the story.
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Denys Lalande



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:18 pm Reply with quote
[Military Historian Hat on]

Japan had not a few reasons to be hacked-off concerning the post-WW1 naval-arms-limitation treaties:

The Washington Naval Treaty [1922] established a ratio of fleet tonnage sizes between the five powers still allowed to have deep-water navies:

USA, Britain: 5 ea.
Japan: 3
France, Italy: 1.75 ea.

Japan was a touch put-out at not being alloted a "full share", equal to those of USA and Britain, for covering what it considered its sphere-of-influence; and for what was perceived as an "inevitable" conflict with the US over territory in the western Pacific (the Philippines, in particular). While some Japanese leaders understood "Japan can never win an arms race with the USA" (Yamamoto, in particular -- he'd visited the USA, and had seen for himself the superiority of US production numbers), others felt a win could be had if Japan had a "head start" on construction, in conjunction with the "one swift stroke" strategy (hit hard and early, to convince the foe to give in). That Japan was given a gift in the treaty proviso banning future building of land fortifications was not quite enough to get Japan to stop griping. There were limits on specific ship-class tonnages; as these applied to everyone, there wasn't quite the carping about them.

The First London Naval Treaty [1930], while not quite as onerous, still "shorted" Japan on numbers and tonnage:

USA: 18 heavy cruisers, 180K tons; 192.2K tons light cruisers; 150K tons destroyers
Britain: 15 heavy cruisers, 147K tons; 143.5K tons light cruisers; 150K tons destroyers
Japan: 12 heavy cruisers, 108K tons; 100,450 tons light cruisers; 105.5K tons destroyers

This sort of thing contributed to Japan's exit from the League of Nations in '34. Not surprisingly, when the Second London Naval Conference [1935-6] occurred, Japan walked out early on [Jan. 15 '36]; the Western Powers tried to adhere, but on September 1, 1939, the matter became very-much moot.

[Military Historian Hat off]

I suspect the "irregularities" will turn out to be the "Fleet Faction" of Japan ignoring the treaty strictures, and building _Yamato_ and _Musashi_ (and _Shinano_, though that was converted to a CV in the yard) no matter what the West thought of the matter.
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shosakukan



Joined: 09 Jan 2014
Posts: 101
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:17 am Reply with quote
Nom De Plume De Fanboy wrote:
So, it's about ship building "budget irregularities"... hmmm. Is this going to be about violations of ship building treaties?
...PS I haven't read the manga.

In The Great War of Archimedes, spoiler[Vice Admiral Hirayama submitted a dishonest estimate for the project to build a battleship in which the budget was very low in order to get his plan approved at the naval conference for constructing a new battleship. And Lieutenant Commander Kai tried to expose the intrigue of Vice Admiral Hirayama and his allies.] So probably 'budget irregularities' refer to this thing.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8153
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:39 pm Reply with quote
Denys Lalande wrote:
[Military Historian Hat on]
This sort of thing contributed to Japan's exit from the League of Nations in '34. Not surprisingly, when the Second London Naval Conference [1935-6] occurred, Japan walked out early on [Jan. 15 '36]; the Western Powers tried to adhere, but on September 1, 1939, the matter became very-much moot.

[Military Historian Hat off]

The WW2 in Europe might have been noted as starting in 1939, but for Japan it started in 1937 with the invasion of then Manchuria, now Northeast China. The Japanese Imperial military government were in such high spirits after that that they gave the middle finger to both those naval tonage treaties. Wink

This together with "Kancollie" has a whiff of the old Imperial conservative dogma resurgent stench to it. It follows the Abe Government trying to rewrite the Constitution to allow The now JSDF to become a full fledged offensive military again. That's the problem with forgetting or ignoring the past. You end up reliving it in all its gore. Wink
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