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INTEREST: Vic Mignogna No Longer a Member of RWBY Cast


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Scion Drake



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 350
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:19 pm Reply with quote
Ashabel wrote:
HeWhoSlapsAll wrote:
Now we're comparing him to Weinstein? Way to make a leap. Until evidence surfaces, there's comparison when it comes to their actions.

He's insensitive and that piggyback ride was dangerous, but vile? We've no evidence of vile behavior.

So far, he comes of as an entitled prick of a narcissist. Not evil, or conniving. Not yet, anyway.


I'm going to go ahead and call bollocks on this. Vic Mignogna has a very long history of abusing peer pressure and fame to get away with increasingly terrible behavior. It has reached the point where he's openly running a "fan club" that consists mostly of impressionable middle-school girls and is managed by his mother, who shamelessly calls herself the Matriarch and grooms those girls into harassing people who speak up against her son online, and somehow that is considered "okay". Every other year he gets called out on his behavior, and every time his fanboy brigade pretend to be concerned citizens in an effort to paint him as an innocent and perfectly harmless soul who doesn't realize what he's doing, while everyone else is oh so mean and terrible and paranoid and reading far too much into it.

I'd understand if this happened once or twice, but this has reached the scale of a mythical cycle at this point. It happened back when he was cast as Viral in Gurren Lagann, it happened again when he was cast as Folken in Escaflowne, then again when he was cast as Rohan Kishibe, and now it's happening again. At this point he has played enough free get out of jail tickets to compile a bloody poker deck.

At this point I'm just interested what he needs to do to finally be held responsible for his nonsense, because to his fans fifteen years of sexual harassment and power abuse is apparently just not enough.


Okay wow I did not know about that fan club.

Goddamn that is creepy as Hell.
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meruru



Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 360
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:25 pm Reply with quote
HeWhoSlapsAll wrote:

But me talking about those two things is technically me talking about how they feel. Or is it me talking about how they act in response of how they feel?

Regardless, it's connected. Still, talking about how people feel is valid because people have a tendency to overreact and/or react too quickly. Hell, some people don't react at all, and years later you realize you let a dude's ego grow too big. Hey, that sounds familiar.


I can see why you would think these two things are the same, but there's plenty of reasons why they're not. 1. Victims are frequently told point blank they are oversensitive, so saying this in a debate about sexual harassment will be received poorly. 2. "They're oversensitive" can be used as a tactic for shutting down arguments. There isn't any way to dispute that because it's one hundred percent subjective, plus it's a very personal criticism on the other person, a judgement you have made on their character. Versus "jail is too far" where it is possible to come up with arguments or counter arguments as to why you think so, and it's not such a directly personal judgement if you ultimately cannot agree.
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HeWhoSlapsAll



Joined: 21 Dec 2015
Posts: 40
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:43 pm Reply with quote
Ashen Phoenix wrote:
After watching the video Vic made in response to these allegations, I find I have very mixed feelings. On the one hand, my heart breaks for the rare few whose lives or careers are upended by a false accusation. HOWEVER, I've also personally been on the other side of that; seeing someone cry crocodile tears (even if s/he genuinely sees themself as the victim when they are in fact victimizing others), only for their behavior to stay the same.

As much as I want to acknowledge that yes, false accusations do exist, the number of them is so infinitesimal compared to those who have suffered real abuse and are petrified to step forward. Victims' lives are forever tied to this and everything about them is raked over the coals of public opinion, marring everything about them in the name of "finding the truth."

TL/DR: An explanation video is discussion-worthy, but I have to stand with those brave enough to risk public shaming and verbal attacks in order to speak out against abuse.


I don't get the shaming argument in this current social climate, because in this climate everyone gets shamed by outrage culture. Those accused of simply being inconsiderate or mean are raked through the coals of public opinion as well. We see this everyday, with all kinds of stories. Look at the recent Lian Neeson story, that the internet mob took completely out of context because they refuse to read.

I makes sense to shame no one and be wary/skeptical at the same time. That's how you get fair observations. Bringing emotions into the mix, too quickly, only muddles the process.


Last edited by HeWhoSlapsAll on Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HeWhoSlapsAll



Joined: 21 Dec 2015
Posts: 40
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:48 pm Reply with quote
Aresef wrote:
NervClaX wrote:
Innocent until proven guilty. The accused have rights too.


This is not a court of law.


Which is the problem. No structure. No back and forth.

Just bury the target. Dehumanize them.

"I'm offended and hurt by these actions of a man I don't know, and haven't met, and I'm gonna make sure my voice heard!!!!" X however many people on social media care that day.

Social media has its pros, but it's rapidly destroying our sense of civil discourse.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1655
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:57 pm Reply with quote
HeWhoSlapsAll wrote:

Yes, some victims get slandered when coming out, but at some point it's your fault for doing nothing about it. Sorry, but as someone who beat the crap out of his bully in middle school I've got very little patience for people do don't care of their own issues quickly, but would rather let it stew and act like they weren't part of the problem.


I don’t think it’s unreasonable to acknowledge that an underage girl may have conflicting feelings about how to deal with what she thinks is a case of inappropriate behavior coming from an adult she admires/trusts. I also think you vastly underestimate the societal stranglehold “don’t cause a fuss” has over girls and even women in the US; they are routinely taught to specifically NOT raise their voices, or make a scene, which is why it often takes such a long time for girls and women to learn to overcome that conditioning and speak out.

I appreciate that you took aggressive action against a bully at a young age, but just as the “boys will be boys” adage is used to excuse and even normalize roughhousing behaviors in boys, girls are likewise conditioned to be basically the exact opposite, and I think trivializing the immense social pressure girls and women are under both before and after they speak out about their experiences is doing them a great disservice.

Sure, maybe if more people in power had spoken out against Vic, people who had actual authority and sway over his career instead of his peers, maybe this would’ve stopped earlier. But maybe if we didn’t always blame victims for somehow being complicit, we could’ve also created a place where con attendees felt comfortable about voicing their concerns while also taking them seriously.
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Mad_Scientist
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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:28 pm Reply with quote
S0crates wrote:
Quote:
"I'm fairly confident these tweets are instead being highlighted because they are Vic's professional colleagues, and so what they have to say on the matter is potentially relevant (especially if some of them, like Monica Rial, can attest to having directly confronted Vic about the his behavior with fans in the past.) Now, the fact that at least so far, the other voice actors speaking out about this publicly are pretty much all speaking against Vic"

How do you know that? ANN have clearly not tried reaching out to anyone other than Vic, and #KickVic. Just looking up those Twitter replies there was this group packet with people of a different impression. This took me 10 seconds to find. Yet you're telling me ANN actively tried to get a different perspective (outside twitter of course) and couldn't find one, not a single one? ANN didn't even bother to write he denied the charges.


I'm going to save us all another giant wall of text responding to every point you made, as I think I already made myself clear, but I'll address this part once more: ANN specifically prefaced those tweets as being from voice actors. You completely ignored this fact, and are now suggesting that ANN essentially start polling random twitter people. A rather strange thing to suggest for someone who is accusing ANN of holding a "trial of public opinion."

You also claim ANN didn't write he denied the charges, but they covered that. They printed his entire statement with the denial. So I am seriously questioning now whether you are arguing in good faith.





Anyways on a more general note, I was away for a while and am gonna have to take a look at this and some other threads, and I can already tell some warnings were ignored, so to the thread as a whole: don't be surprised if you see some posts vanish, and to avoid having your own posts moderated, remember to:

Not victim blame
Not downplay the seriousness of accusations of misconduct because they aren't violent rape so don't matter, or whatever reason you might think to act like they don't matter all that much, don't do this.
Not introduce off topic conspiracy theories
Not personally attack people


Honestly just re-read the rules if you need to, because it's clear some folks do.
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Phraze



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 43
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:33 pm Reply with quote
PMDR wrote:
This has been waiting to break into public knowledge for years. And it's overdue.

As a high level convention "insider" I can say we at the top level who were involved in booking various talent were aware of allegations regarding several of the popular con guests.

It's a lot of heresay. Rumors. One con head quietly passing cautions to another con head. But also police reports. Reports from venue security. And people we knew who chose to keep quiet because the con was important to them.

Allegations like this go back years and years, not just limited to anime con guests but also scifi, comic, fantasy cons into the 70s. The story was always the same: some name talent popular with fans was caught doing untoward things and it was either hushed up, or ignored, or just buried. It's not that a lot of work was spent hiding it but somehow nobody talked and word didn't get around and the secrets were kept.

Why? Because cons lived and died by the guests they could book. You throngs out there demanded we book people we KNEW were dangerous or risky. None of you knew what we knew. None of you knew WE didn't want to be alone in elevators or anywhere else with certain guests and we sure didn't want them at the damn con, but we had to sell tickets to pay for the show, and name guests sold tickets.

What what the hell are we supposed to do when we have hundreds of fans demanding we book some guest? You won't accept no. You can't possibly imagine the indigestion in our stomachs knowing what we knew and having to book these pigs anyway, while everybody acted like they were superhero guests and we were the villains!

So we signed the contracts and enabled these predators to prey on fresh blood over and over again. Hell, they didn't even have to hide it once they became so insanely popular as guests. No con would risk NOT booking them. I know of several such guests who contacted the con I worked for and basically had a list of demands to appear. A rider. Flight, hotel, per diem, etc. All paid by the con. Or the guest would not show. That's right. These folks did their dirty work and got paid by the con to do it!

Ticket sales were always more important.

Vic's not the only one. There are others. Some are name guests and others are more like perennial superfans who show up and con after con. Some have active restraining orders keeping them from some cons but not others. EVERY con knows who they are. They have discussed it at the top of their directorial structure. Their head of security knows and probably has a plan to try (TRY) to keep things under control or at least wraps.

It's long past time for this silence to end and the dirty horrible truth to come out.

This is very informative and professional! Conventions are doing a good job protecting their guests' images, I'd say. It's sad how some abuse it.
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S0crates
It...it's not like I post for you or anything!It...it's not like I post for you or anything!


Joined: 06 Jul 2018
Posts: 227
Location: Banned - Noticed our poor ethics
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:55 pm Reply with quote
Mad_Scientist wrote:
S0crates wrote:
"*zip*

You also claim ANN didn't write he denied the charges, but they covered that. They printed his entire statement with the denial. So I am seriously questioning now whether you are arguing in good faith.

I can't find the statement after rereading this article, so I assume you must mean a different article. If you do mean this article, then ANN wrote that he apologized, then linked a video. I'd argue many people won't watch a 15 minute video of a person who they'd perhaps assumed to have done something bad, but if you truly believe this is sufficient then I'll leave that to your judgment. I've said how I interpreted it, and how and why it could be viewed as unethical reporting and even give consequences if my interpretation is viewed as universal. We just had a giant libel scandal, where several media companies may not survive, following the falsely accusations against Covington Catholic students (over supposed harassing of a native American). I'm urging ANN as the biggest and best anime news media to not involve themselves in cases that may cause them similar backlash (in addition to me finding it unethical on a private basis), and if you are familiar with such cases you know how devastating they can be. There is no reason for ANN to do this, especially not if we all agree that gossip is not this network's focus. My agenda is for them to better themselves towards that goal and continue their already (mostly) exemplar service of reporting anime news. Just because they are mostly good does not put them above criticism. You may question my motives, but that is it. My biggest fear is that if ANN mess up in these "side stories" (if they become the norm) then there are no alternative for us, and it would take years to build up a new network of similar quality and reach. ANN's reporting are also crucial for the industry as they serve statistical data, translations and other exclusivity for a Western audience none other can provide. It is in many ways like catching a respected scientist for shoplifting. I feel they're best off leaving "risky gossip" to other places, but we've been over this so I won't repeat that point.

I think we've both said our piece, so there's no reason for you to reply. If you don't find my view "in good faith" and/or sensible, then we'll simply agree to disagree.

Kind regards.


Last edited by S0crates on Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ranran-001



Joined: 25 Oct 2018
Posts: 156
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:02 pm Reply with quote
It will be a shame to see anime conventions scale down. I would like to think that conventions are more than just Vic and Todd, that the fan base that likes going to conventions is strong enough to survive this fall out.
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Psycho 101
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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Location: The Bannered Mare
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:59 pm Reply with quote
S0crates wrote:

I can't find the statement after rereading this article, so I assume you must mean a different article. If you do mean this article, then ANN wrote that he apologized, then linked a video. I'd argue many people won't watch a 15 minute video of a person who they'd perhaps assumed to have done something bad, but if you truly believe this is sufficient then I'll leave that to your judgment. I've said how I interpreted it, and how and why it could be viewed as unethical reporting and even give consequences if my interpretation is viewed as universal. We just had a giant libel scandal, where several media companies may not survive, following the falsely accusations against Covington Catholic students (over supposed harassing of a native American). I'm urging ANN as the biggest and best anime news media to not involve themselves in cases that may cause them similar backlash (in addition to me finding it unethical on a private basis), and if you are familiar with such cases you know how devastating they can be. There is no reason for ANN to do this, especially not if we all agree that gossip is not this network's focus. My agenda is for them to better themselves towards that goal and continue their already (mostly) exemplar service of reporting anime news. Just because they are mostly good does not put them above criticism. You may question my motives, but that is it. My biggest fear is that if ANN mess up in these "side stories" (if they become the norm) then there are no alternative for us, and it would take years to build up a new network of similar quality and reach. ANN's reporting are also crucial for the industry as they serve statistical data, translations and other exclusivity for a Western audience none other can provide. It is in many ways like catching a respected scientist for shoplifting. I feel they're best off leaving "risky gossip" to other places, but we've been over this so I won't repeat that point.


What you're doing is soapboxing consistently with the idea ANN is acting like TMZ basically because they are doing their job. Reporting news and other interests in the anime/manga community. Guess what? Vic is in that community. He works in it. His behavior affects those in that community, on both sides. Yet you claim there is no reason for ANN to post on such things and it's just gossip So what's your suggestion? ANN should just stick to fluff pieces on Mascots for noddle bowl brands and just do reviews of shows?

In your example of this being "reporting on a respected scientist shoplifting", all I can say is the damn scientist shouldn't have been shoplifting now should he? If this was the crime section of the local ewspaper that would be perfectly reasonable to report on as it was a crime. The who does not matter. You seem to be insinuating that because of Vic's status somehow ANN should not report on his documented behavior because there might be backlash. Which suggests they should just ignore it. Yea, that's a great idea for a news source. Ignore the news. I hate to break it to you but the news isn't always good, but that doesn't make it worth less in terms of covering it. You are right that ANN is one of the largest news sources in the anime community. Thousands upon thousands go onto the site for various reasons every week. Which means if they did not report on something that affected that community in such a large manner as this they would not be doing their job worth a damn. I suppose if he was some nobody VA it would be ok then as there would be less chance of backlash?

The fact you are calling this topic "gossip" is also a slap in the face to those who feel they have been harassed by Vic, or anyone else in the anime community or beyond, in any manner. It belittles the situation and sends the message they're not worth it and it's not worth reporting on. That is again bad journalism.

You obviously have made up your mind though, so I do agree there's no sense in you repeating yourself again. In fact I would strongly urge all the people soapboxing on this point over and over while adding nothing to the conversation to give it a rest at this point.
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S0crates
It...it's not like I post for you or anything!It...it's not like I post for you or anything!


Joined: 06 Jul 2018
Posts: 227
Location: Banned - Noticed our poor ethics
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:37 pm Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:
S0crates wrote:
*zip*

You seem to be insinuating that because of Vic's status somehow ANN should not report on his documented behavior because there might be backlash. Which suggests they should just ignore it. Yea, that's a great idea for a news source. Ignore the news. I hate to break it to you but the news isn't always good, but that doesn't make it worth less in terms of covering it. You are right that ANN is one of the largest news sources in the anime community. Thousands upon thousands go onto the site for various reasons every week. Which means if they did not report on something that affected that community in such a large manner as this they would not be doing their job worth a damn. I suppose if he was some nobody VA it would be ok then as there would be less chance of backlash?

The fact you are calling this topic "gossip" is also a slap in the face to those who feel they have been harassed by Vic... That is again bad journalism.

I don't know what soapboxing nor TMZ is, but I do know what libel is. And by backlash I mean lawsuits, not people being angry.

If this is true: https://twitter.com/kungfuman316/status/1091589345830682624
then you'll be forced to settle. This is libel.

Get yourself a lawyer and ask him yourself. I try my darnest to help you out so that you don't end up in exactly what that situation is (if it is true), but you're not making it easy. You're in deep water here, don't you get it? All you can do now is hope this Vic doesn't find out. There's a reason why media companies got specialists writing about court cases...
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MorwenLaicoriel



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 1610
Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:29 pm Reply with quote
I'm a broadcasting major, and I took an entire class on Freedom of Speech, including a lot on defamation. I've gone into this in more detail in the thread for the first article, but the TL;DR version is that it's VERY difficult to prove defamation when you're a public figure like Vic and you're suing a member of the press--to do so, he'd basically have to prove without a shadow of a doubt that NONE of the allegations are true AND that they don't fit the reputation he already had (and rumors about this have been around for years), AND that ANN knew everything was false. That's gonna be basically impossible for him, particularly since ANN has been very careful not to publish anything that hasn't been corroborated or that doesn't come from a public source like Twitter. ANN has very little to worry about, Vic doesn't have a strong case for defamation (and, being part of the entertainment industry, he probably knows that, too).
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NickPenrhyn
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Joined: 19 Jun 2014
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:31 pm Reply with quote
S0crates wrote:
Psycho 101 wrote:
S0crates wrote:
*zip*

You seem to be insinuating that because of Vic's status somehow ANN should not report on his documented behavior because there might be backlash. Which suggests they should just ignore it. Yea, that's a great idea for a news source. Ignore the news. I hate to break it to you but the news isn't always good, but that doesn't make it worth less in terms of covering it. You are right that ANN is one of the largest news sources in the anime community. Thousands upon thousands go onto the site for various reasons every week. Which means if they did not report on something that affected that community in such a large manner as this they would not be doing their job worth a damn. I suppose if he was some nobody VA it would be ok then as there would be less chance of backlash?

The fact you are calling this topic "gossip" is also a slap in the face to those who feel they have been harassed by Vic... That is again bad journalism.

I don't know what soapboxing nor TMZ is, but I do know what libel is. And by backlash I mean lawsuits, not people being angry.

If this is true: https://twitter.com/kungfuman316/status/1091589345830682624
then you'll be forced to settle. This is libel.

Get yourself a lawyer and ask him yourself. I try my darnest to help you out so that you don't end up in exactly what that situation is (if it is true), but you're not making it easy. You're in deep water here, don't you get it? All you can do now is hope this Vic doesn't find out. There's a reason why media companies got specialists writing about court cases...


This picture is nowhere in the original article, presumably either because it was concealed to protect the identity of the person or pulled at their request. Either way, it's resolved.

I'd advise you to actually check for updates on articles in the future (EDIT: I was being unnecessarily hostile, I apologize).


Last edited by NickPenrhyn on Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ashabel



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 278
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:13 pm Reply with quote
cloudthe23 wrote:
Here's someone who's actually done the research.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL9oDQpNy-o&t=1396s


The fact that he's trying to paint this as Mignogna being "under heavy Ess Jay Dubya fire", trying to blame this on the #MeToo movement and painting the whole thing as a sudden and recent development instantly proves that he doesn't know what the word "research" is.

If he did, then he would know that this is at least the fourth explosion in a controversy that's been going since 2007.

S0crates wrote:
I don't know what soapboxing nor TMZ is, but I do know what libel is. And by backlash I mean lawsuits, not people being angry.

If this is true: https://twitter.com/kungfuman316/status/1091589345830682624
then you'll be forced to settle. This is libel.

Get yourself a lawyer and ask him yourself. I try my darnest to help you out so that you don't end up in exactly what that situation is (if it is true), but you're not making it easy. You're in deep water here, don't you get it? All you can do now is hope this Vic doesn't find out. There's a reason why media companies got specialists writing about court cases...


It takes exactly one look at the old Mignogna article to confirm that the photo that appears on that twitter, doesn't pop up anywhere in that article. You would also know that if you had, you know, actually read the article or at least scrolled through it.

So I'm really not sure what it's trying to "help" ANN with. Is it with helping ANN identify fans of Vic who are openly falsifying information while using their real Facebook accounts, therefore making them open to libel lawsuits from ANN?
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Terrible90sDub
Get off my lawn!Get off my lawn!


Joined: 14 Jul 2017
Posts: 168
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:26 pm Reply with quote
NickPenrhyn wrote:
S0crates wrote:

I don't know what soapboxing nor TMZ is, but I do know what libel is. And by backlash I mean lawsuits, not people being angry.

If this is true: https://twitter.com/kungfuman316/status/1091589345830682624
then you'll be forced to settle. This is libel.

Get yourself a lawyer and ask him yourself. I try my darnest to help you out so that you don't end up in exactly what that situation is (if it is true), but you're not making it easy. You're in deep water here, don't you get it? All you can do now is hope this Vic doesn't find out. There's a reason why media companies got specialists writing about court cases...


This picture is nowhere in the original article, presumably either because it was concealed to protect the identity of the person or pulled at their request. Either way, it's resolved.

I'd advise you to actually check for updates on articles in the future (EDIT: I was being unnecessarily hostile, I apologize).


Iirc, it was there initially, but it was being used as an example of how young the members of his fanclub are. It wasn't in the same section as the photos of those who stated they were made uncomfortable by his behavior.

Yeah, they probably should've gotten permission from the individual first, but making out of context arguments like that is pretty ironic when accusing others of slander.
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