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INTEREST: Vic Mignogna No Longer a Member of RWBY Cast


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SailorTralfamadore



Joined: 25 Feb 2014
Posts: 454
Location: Keep Austin Weeb
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:03 pm Reply with quote
S0crates wrote:
I don't know what soapboxing nor TMZ is, but I do know what libel is.


You really, really don't, though. As I just pointed out in another thread thanks to comments like yours, libel is not "this feels kinda false to me," it is a specific legal standard that, as pointed out a few posts ago by MorwenLaicoriel, is extremely difficult for public figures to prove. It basically would require that ANN knew everything they wrote was false and acted recklessly by reporting it, with the specific intent of screwing Vic and his career over. None of that is the case, but at most you are trying to suggest that the last one is true. But Vic would have to prove all of those things.

Quote:
Get yourself a lawyer and ask him yourself. I try my darnest to help you out so that you don't end up in exactly what that situation is (if it is true), but you're not making it easy. You're in deep water here, don't you get it? All you can do now is hope this Vic doesn't find out. There's a reason why media companies got specialists writing about court cases...


My mother is a lawyer who defended newspapers for years in libel cases. Libel is one of the areas of law she knows the best. And she'd be the first to tell you how extremely hard it is to prove for public figures in the United States, and how nothing ANN has written on the subject comes anywhere within striking distance of a successful libel suit.

Have you considered that before a publication publishes something like this, that they might talk to lawyers about it? ANN was even openly asking for legal expertise on social media before this went to press. Have you considered that they might have done due diligence already and don't need the "help" of someone in the forums who is obviously not a U.S. lawyer?


Last edited by SailorTralfamadore on Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ali07



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 3226
Location: Victoria, Australia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:04 pm Reply with quote
cloudthe23 wrote:
Here's someone who's actually done the research.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL9oDQpNy-o&t=1396s

Brought up the video out of interest (though did laugh at your comment, after seeing the YT account), but I didn't watch much of it. Having "heavy Shonen Jump Weekly Fire" as part of the title, and where in the video your link lands one...not a person I'll listen to.

When I followed your link, it starts at a point where he is talking about an issue of Vic having young fans...he is speaking on an issue no one has with Vic. No one cares that Vic has young fans, people are worried about how he interacts with them. So, that indicates (to me) that this isn't well researched at all...Laughing

S0crates wrote:

While that image is no longer on the article, because (I believe) the girl in it didn't want it to be used, I remember seeing it...but not that it was being used as an example of a time where unwanted physical contact was made by Vic. The images that are examples of unwanted contact come with statements from those in the photo.

The way I remember this image being used was as an example of a couple of the types of physical contact Vic has had with minors. Don't remember it being listed as a image where contact was instigated by Vic himself and not welcomed by the fan. That image was placed in a section of the article that was speaking on the Risembool Rangers, Vic's fan club.


Last edited by Ali07 on Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Dewey Donedidit



Joined: 02 Feb 2019
Posts: 18
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:53 pm Reply with quote
Ali07 wrote:
When I followed your link, it starts at a point where he is talking about an issue of Vic having young fans...he is speaking on an issue no one has with Vic. No one cares that Vic has young fans, people are worried about how he interacts with them. So, that indicates (to me) that this isn't well researched at all...Laughing


Actually people have criticized Vic's fanbase for having young members as fans. Some VAs, like DC Douglas, being sarky with retorts like "My fan-base is over 18, Vic", which indicates they view it as a negative that Vic has young fans. It is also clearly a lie as people of all ages watch anime so I'm sure those people have young fans as well.

Quote:
The way I remember this image being used was as an example of a couple of the types of physical contact Vic has had with minors. Don't remember it being listed as a image where contact was instigated by Vic himself and not welcomed by the fan. That image was placed in a section of the article that was speaking on the Risembool Rangers, Vic's fan club.


Wouldn't the fact that people have requested their images being taken down indicate the author clearly didn't ask them permission before using them? I know the ANN CEO said it was out on the internet so it was public use, but that's more for legal defense than an ethics or courtesy one. They did not want their photo used in an article that badmouths Vic when they clarified elsewhere that their interactions with him were fine so they were appalled their image was being used to defame him.
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SailorTralfamadore



Joined: 25 Feb 2014
Posts: 454
Location: Keep Austin Weeb
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:57 pm Reply with quote
There's a post in the original Vic thread where it was specifically addressed that in order to show a pattern of this behavior on Vic's part, they intentionally used some photos where congoers consented or where that wasn't clear. There were never any claims made that those specific people were not ok with the contact. The photos where people were not okay with the contact were directly connected (by being posted right above or right below) the specific stories associated with it. So it just seems like a moot point to continue to prolong this discussion, when it's been addressed.
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Ali07



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 3226
Location: Victoria, Australia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:21 pm Reply with quote
Dewey Donedidit wrote:
Actually people have criticized Vic's fanbase for having young members as fans. Some VAs, like DC Douglas, being sarky with retorts like "My fan-base is over 18, Vic", which indicates they view it as a negative that Vic has young fans. It is also clearly a lie as people of all ages watch anime so I'm sure those people have young fans as well.

Huh, no idea who DC Douglas is, but I didn't realise that he is someone who thinks all his fans are 18 and over, or that being an anime VA and having fans that are young is something negative. That is an...interesting view point to have.

Dewey Donedidit wrote:
Wouldn't the fact that people have requested their images being taken down indicate the author clearly didn't ask them permission before using them?

That seems to be the case. They also weren't using that particular image the way some claim ANN were. Which was the point I was making in response to the other poster and the twitter thread they had linked. SailorTralfamadore has said it better than I.
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LightningViper



Joined: 28 Oct 2016
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:39 am Reply with quote
Dewey Donedidit wrote:


Actually people have criticized Vic's fanbase for having young members as fans. Some VAs, like DC Douglas, being sarky with retorts like "My fan-base is over 18, Vic", which indicates they view it as a negative that Vic has young fans. It is also clearly a lie as people of all ages watch anime so I'm sure those people have young fans as well.
.


Of course pretty much every VA out there has young fans, just because something has a certain rating, doesn't mean teens or even younger won't be able to get a hold of it, cause curiosity and all that. Kids don't live in a bubble, and stuff like for example Resident Evil and Jojo, where he had some of his roles, are very mainstream.
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BaconPowder



Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:07 pm Reply with quote
SailorTralfamadore wrote:
There's a post in the original Vic thread where it was specifically addressed that in order to show a pattern of this behavior on Vic's part, they intentionally used some photos where congoers consented or where that wasn't clear. There were never any claims made that those specific people were not ok with the contact. The photos where people were not okay with the contact were directly connected (by being posted right above or right below) the specific stories associated with it. So it just seems like a moot point to continue to prolong this discussion, when it's been addressed.


How is that acceptable for ANN or any news site to do? They took random pictures online to support a fake article. His career is in shambles because he dared hugged fans. It's not ethically right for them to fabricate evidence (and it is fabrication when they take them out of context and spin their own narrative). I don't follow VAs but ANN has no right to do any of this. The people who wrote this need to understand the level of harm they attributed wasn't what Vic deserves.

I've always had a neutral view of ANN even when people badmouthed them on other sites but now I'm seeing they weren't wrong.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1656
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:18 pm Reply with quote
BaconPowder wrote:

How is that acceptable for ANN or any news site to do? They took random pictures online to support a fake article. His career is in shambles because he dared hugged fans. It's not ethically right for them to fabricate evidence (and it is fabrication when they take them out of context and spin their own narrative).


I think you grossly misunderstood the explanation. ANN does have pictures of girls who testified that they were hugged and/or kissed unwillingly alongside corresponding testimony, and ANN also gathered photo evidence that Vic displays a pattern of hugging underage fans, both with and without their consent.

You may disagree that Vic was acting inappropriately when he hugged the consenting girls, but the main problem is that there are testimonies and photographic evidence of non-consensual interactions, and that is inappropriate no matter how you slice it.

Furthermore, these allegations aren't new. Even if ANN hadn't posted their article, Polygon already did their own, and RT firing Vic is entirely a result of VIc's direct actions. ANN might've shone a brighter spotlight on the issue, but that doesn't mean the issue wouldn't have still been an issue.
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SailorTralfamadore



Joined: 25 Feb 2014
Posts: 454
Location: Keep Austin Weeb
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:37 pm Reply with quote
Also, it's not actually against the law or even uncommon practice to use photos that were posted on public social media pages. (Think of how many Buzzfeed articles are basically compilations of tweets or Tumblr posts; do you think they asked all of those people?) What's considered "good form" in fandom spaces between other fans is not how news sites are required to operate. Whether it should be the case is another discussion, but I feel like in these discussions people don't realize that that isn't actually a legal issue or otherwise "against the rules."
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Crisha
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Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 4192
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:26 pm Reply with quote
BaconPowder wrote:
How is that acceptable for ANN or any news site to do? They took random pictures online to support a fake article. His career is in shambles because he dared hugged fans. It's not ethically right for them to fabricate evidence (and it is fabrication when they take them out of context and spin their own narrative). I don't follow VAs but ANN has no right to do any of this. The people who wrote this need to understand the level of harm they attributed wasn't what Vic deserves.


1. The first five photos in the original article were provided by the victims themselves and were given with permission. The other photos were already published on the Internet and publicly visible. Chris and Lynzee both confirm this here and here.

2. The context of the photos that were public that ANN did not specifically get permission for was to show a pattern in the way Mignogna interacts with his younger fans. The edited article as it is now specifically states that. Chris states it in the post I quoted. The first version of the article supports this. [You can see the first version of the article here]. The photos come after a paragraph stating the following:
Quote:
Mignogna is in no short supply of fans who believe in him. His fanclub, the Risembool Rangers, is unique among the anime fandom both in its longevity and the lengths its members will go to show their dedication to their favorite voice actor.

Two photos even have the following words under them:
Quote:
Approximately 43% of Risembool Rangers were underage in 2006.

Only the people who approached ANN with their stories and gave their permission to share the photos and stories are the ones claiming non-consensual contact.

3. Regardless whether you agree or disagree with Chris' and Lynzee's opinion that photos posted for public consumption can be used in this article and whether or not you feel that the photos were taken out of context, the photos were taken down anyways.


This argument about the photos has spread across multiple articles, and has been pounded into the ground by now. There is little more that can be said about it. If you disagree with the way ANN handled it or whether they had the right, then fine. But we're done dragging this out.


Last edited by Crisha on Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:45 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Sethimothy



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 98
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:26 am Reply with quote
I remember being active in the con scene around 2004 and 2005 amd hearing horror stories. Websites like LJDrama, Cats on Mars, and Something Awful were rife with stories of congoers put off by his antics. Even Encyclopedia Dramatica had a stab at him for the way he interacted with his fans. And yet, outside of a couple of cancelled convention gigs, nothing was done. 15 years. Literally hundreds, not dozens but HUNDREDS, of alligations...

And when the other shoe finally drops and his employers say "you know, maybe we don't want our brand associated with someone with this sort of reputation; maybe a man in his 60's who willingly kisses and affectionately hugs teenagers and makes disparaging remarks towards our viewers isn't what we need" his fans feel to respond with such inanity as "if this has been going on, why are we just now hearing about it?" People have been talking for years; you are just finally listening because his employers are. "Why aren't the police investigating?" Probably because being a creepy old man in and of itself isn't a criminal offense, some of these things have statute of limitations, and prosecuting attornies have more pressing things to prosecute then creepers kissing underage fans who claim to consent even though legally it is questionable if they are actually able. "Where is your proof?" The fact that so many testimonials across such a wide time frame are available and yet you feel that this man should be made some sort of hero because he never took his creepiness far enough to be arrested says far more about you than it does about those sharing their stories

15 years to put an end to this madness, and the example it set for other young men who were con goers. Hell, it only took about 4 or 5 before the yaoi paddle got quashed
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