Forum - View topicRevisiting The Big O - 20 Years Later
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Hiroki not Takuya
 Posts: 2515 |
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Well, it is nice to see others here had the same perceptions as I relative to this show and satisfying that no one can state concisely what the overall tale was supposed to be. I really hope no one misunderstands me and I'm with the many here that absolutely loved many elements of the show and found it oddly engrossing despite a lot of disconnects that have nothing to do with misunderstanding or naivete. I was always torn whether to "ship" RS-RD or RS-A but the chemistry really got projected and especially so due to the brilliance and nuance of the VA cast. Artwork, color use and shot composition made the visuals positively drip the atmosphere mirrored in the characters.
I have to say that LightningCount's 2003 analysis and PenguinTruth's take based on the last few episodes seem closest to reasonable mental frameworks to interpret the show and I especially like the later. My thoughts on why the show should have the effect it has had on some of us fans even many years later is that individual episodes taken alone or in combination with a select few others give a glimpse of story arcs that would be very interesting to see expanded and explored. The inter-character chemistry was clear and well developed so the cast were intriguing to watch in themselves and the characterization backed by the direction managed to pack a lot of personality and interiority in a relative few lines and shots. The basic mysteries themselves were compelling and for me fostered an intense desire to see them explained which made it all the more frustrating that the potential story arcs or mysteries didn't fit and were never fulfilled. Maybe a little too nostalgic, but instead of wondering what the Next Copboy Bebop will be or if it is possible, I'd like to ask "will there ever be another show to touch fans in the way The Big O did?". P.S. It's hard to believe the show was meant to sell toys other than Big O unless one assumes they did such a poor job of showcasing the other "Bigs" that it just seems that way. |
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Cardcaptor Takato
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LinkTSwordmaster
 Posts: 381 Location: PA / USA |
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Oh crap, so many things happening in my brain right now, you say to discount your 2003 mentionings of all the biblical references, but don't be too hasty....
I can't believe I missed it after all this time. Paradigm City is spoiler[an allegory for the Garden of Eden. The tomatoes draw a parallel to the fruit of knowledge and serve as the "control" variable by which to judge humanity's souls. Their state progresses with each reset along with humanity, yet they are simply just fruit, thus they have no reason to be judged - they simply serve as a warning to any being that is observant of them, and such too can be said of any divine beings influencing the simulation (their influence and/or progress does not count for they are not truly human). Heck, the ruins that Paradigm City is built on LITERALLY could be the original Garden of Eden, humans were cast out, and now all those cast out - divine and humans alike - can do now that the Garden is ruined is build facsimiles of it and reset their memories (or maybe God is doing it like in Devilman as they come too close for comfort/Tower of Babel) of the tragedy of the paradise they lost as they try to regain it anew. The rock changing to a tree amidst memory issues could signal their progress in reconstructing their lost paradise - they started with inelegant rocks and now are working with decorated trees. So far as Paradigm City is concerned though, at what point is a facsimile convincing enough to be the real thing? Are the characters with names and positions that reference angels and the like truly divine beings that too are being punished for the loss of the original Garden, or are they simply humans imitating the divine as a means to achieve the redemption they seek, though imperfectly? Angel is some sort of Nephilim, a true perfect divine being stripped of that position for some failure and forced to live among the humans, Roger either was/is some sort of "favorite child" or a human born from divinity that through his actions are trying to lead or redeem humanity from some sort of Armageddon that already destroyed the original Garden and is destined to come again - he's humanity's negotiator to Paradigm City's restless God(s), making a case for their eventual redemption for the destruction of the original Garden. Roger's negotiating and potential success isn't what qualifies everyone for redemption however. The twist is that it's Dorothy. Like the tomatoes, she becomes more & more human with each revision, and its her innocent journey towards that humanity that will ultimately signal to Paradigm's restless God(s) that everyone has been redeemed, either via her own personal enlightenment or everyone else's acceptance of what she is and represents. Roger already has by the end of the show if I recall, and now everyone else needs to catch up to him.] Thoughts? Comments? I think it's been almost 20 years now since I've seen the show so I expect holes in that theorising, but suddenly a lot more things make sense in that context to me. Like I said, if a third season were to occur and pass itself off as a reboot but still manage to imply all of the above and that the original two seasons still matter, I think that would make for one hell of a show. |
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LightningCount
 Posts: 229 |
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LinkTSwordmaster, I think you may be on the right track. Very interesting stuff. I don't have time to process it all right now, unfortunately, especially without rewatching the series. I've had some similar thoughts before, but not with some of the angles you brought in. Your take on Angel, in particular, makes sense to me. Next time I do watch it, I'll keep your theory in mind, for sure.
I wasn't completely dismissing the biblical route before so much as tempering my statements, since I myself could see some incongruity, and all of the technological elements can confuse things further. But there's no doubt that in terms of a framework, those references have some significance. spoiler[(Something I didn't explicitly mention but heard before: Roger is brought in on the secrets of Paradigm by Schwarzwald, and so we have a potential savior in Roger being introduced outwardly to his public ministry/purpose by a wild-looking John the Baptist prophet-type figure.)] The show returns to these sorts of parallels and references too many times, all the way to the end when we have spoiler[Angel giving up and going with Gordon Rosewater to Floor 666 to seemingly bring about Big Venus to reset things.] If Mr. Konaka was given carte blanche after Season 1, with the knowledge that 26 additional episodes were on the table, I think he'd have some purpose in doubling down on this stuff--regardless of his reputation for obtuse imagery. Crazy as Season 2 is, it goes out of its way to try to tie together elements from Season 1. And it should be noted that despite Season 1's more episodic nature, the first 13 episodes clearly make references to the bigger world and plot throughout, just like, say, a Cowboy Bebop often does. spoiler[(The episode where Roger and Angel get trapped together in ruins under water reveals to us her lost-wing scars, for instance; a Christmas episode reveals further genetic experiments and Alex Rosewater's knowledge of past things; etc.)] This is one of the reasons I love The Big-O so much. It feels like you're being brought in on an earth-shattering yet clandestine conversation. It has so many interdisciplinary elements. Mr. Konaka loves to play with Frank Baum's The Wizard of Oz, and he does so again here. spoiler[(Dorothy, Glinda...and other references, if I'm not mistaken.) This might further point to the importance of Dorothy. And it's worth noting when you compare Roger's memories of "dying" in past versions of Paradigm, they are solved by Dorothy this time. Like, as I recall, there is one time where he drowns, but this time Dorothy is able to reach him and deliver oxygen because she is a robot. The role of Dorothy facilitating Roger forward seems very important; she goes out of her way to seek him out after being initially rescued and insists it is his job alone to help her.] Anyway, I think, to answer an earlier question, that The Big-O is best approached by watching the episodes in fairly close proximity. It's one of those series that makes a bit more sense with multiple viewings, too. I think I've seen the whole thing about three times over the years, and each time I get new pieces of it (and new questions). As I said earlier, the only other series that came close to evoking this kind of macro and micro-level mystery and thinking for me was RahXephon, which interestingly enough, Konaka wrote six episodes of. Stuff like Ergo Proxy and Wolf Rain were also in the ballpark, but the former was a bit too obtuse for me to grab on to (as of one viewing) and the latter wasn't quite as cerebral with its mysteries. Other series with twists, like the mixed bag of Candidate for Goddess, were cancelled before they could unpack their mysteries, and Evangelion, even after the Rebuild reboot, seems content to leave its intriguing macro story as an afterthought of supporting, superfluous imagery, which is a shame to me. Netflix is probably the only hope for a The Big-O revival at this point, but who's to say what that would be like after all this time. |
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Advent_Nebula
Posts: 932 Location: Colorado |
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We really do not need a continuation of Big-O though. 2003 is a time capsule ending that would not fly in the streaming age. If anything, if a series inspired by Big-O, Eva, and other mind binder series of that era were to come about, then it would work on a platform like Netflix.
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Zeino
Posts: 1098 |
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One thing I think that everyone misses about Big O including the reviewer here is that ultimately that "The Mystery of what happened to Paradigm City and the world 40 years ago" is besides the point of the series. The director admitted that he never wanted to give a definite answer. So a potential third season would just raised even more questions most likely.
Like Eva before it, the mysteries are just window dressing for what is really important, the neo-noir mood of the series and the existential theme that it's not the memories of our past that define us but the ones we make in the here and now with the people we've come to know and love. Roger even more or less spells it out in both season finales. Season 2 because a much better watch if that is kept in mind and you view all the mind screws as sly meta-fiction winks at the audience for wanting answers they were never going to get. The audience that wants answers is essentially Schwarzwald spoiler[running into a giant spotlight while only getting the comedy of the search at the end. ] |
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LightningCount
Posts: 229 |
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For those interested, Konaka did do a supposed "missing link" between Seasons 1 and 2 as a CD drama. He's still hosting it on his official site, and it even got an official English translation by the same person who did the TV series. Google: "The Big O CD Theater Walking Together down the Yellow Brick Road” to find it. (A Wizard of Oz reference there...)
Also, when I mentioned series with mysteries like The Big-O...while different, I did forget a few that came close in one regard or another: Gasaraki, the Fafner franchise, Xam'd: Lost Memories, Yukikaze, and Eureka Seven are worth checking out for fans of The Big-O.
This is a fair enough point, I suppose. And an amusing one with how you ended it. You may very well be right that no further answers would have come. The added obfuscation in the last episode or so was quite a doozy. |
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BadNewsBlues
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Hell of a cop out. |
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Joe Carpenter
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That second season is such a mess, unless we get more it's best to just pretend it doesn't exist and focus on the first season.
Because while the first season leaves a lot open of course you still get the broad strokes of what is probably going on, there was a war fought with the Megadeus which destroyed the world, people's memories were somehow erased to prevent it from happening again and experiments were bringing memories back for some people. Instead with season 2 who knows what the hell was going on. |
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