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INTEREST: Japan Shogi Association Column Endorses The Ryuo's Work is Never Done!


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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings



Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 559
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:55 pm Reply with quote
I'm glad, it's a story that really does deserve some recognition. I'd love to recommend it more, if only there wasn't a "But..." to go along with it.
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danpmss



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 526
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:56 pm Reply with quote
Could never get into it, because of the loliservice shenanigans in the anime.

Too bad, because I love shogi, and this seems decently written and researched at the very least. Can't say I'm too interested any longer even then.
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BalmungHHQ



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 132
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:42 pm Reply with quote
This is great news.
The Ryuo's Work is Never Done is one of my favorite light novel series', and it made me interested in shogi, something I never saw myself taking an interest in before.

It's really an amazing series, and while I'm glad it's been so well-received in Japan, I wish it had more love among English fans too...
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 1810
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:50 pm Reply with quote
BalmungHHQ wrote:
It's really an amazing series, and while I'm glad it's been so well-received in Japan, I wish it had more love among English fans too...

I'm reading it. Smile Though the shogi parts might as well be ancient hieroglyphs for me but the rest compensates enough...
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switchgear1131



Joined: 14 Mar 2013
Posts: 214
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:01 pm Reply with quote
I would recommend it to if it was not ruined by the pedophilia that oozes from its plot. It could have been an amazing series but the creator and editor had to ruin it with that trash. The fact that it seems to be leaning hard into the MC and the child is holding it back like most series that take the same route.
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zztop



Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 408
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:45 pm Reply with quote
switchgear1131 wrote:
I would recommend it to if it was not ruined by the pedophilia that oozes from its plot. It could have been an amazing series but the creator and editor had to ruin it with that trash. The fact that it seems to be leaning hard into the MC and the child is holding it back like most series that take the same route.


The author was questioned about the loli aspect; his defence was that he wanted to try something different in writing female characters for male readers.

Quote:
(T)here are two main factions (of light novel readers' female preferences): younger girls versus older girls, or little sisters versus big sisters. Childhood friends aren't really that popular when they're around the same age as the protagonist. So when faced with the prospect of choosing between one of the main factions, I decided that I may as well go with little girls this time. I wanted to try something new.

I didn't set out to write Ryuo in a perverted way. It's more like I wanted the readers to think of the characters as cute, in a little sister kind of way. I don't know how the readers will take it, though.


animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2018-02-08/shirow-shiratori-author-of-the-ryuo-work-is-never-done/.126909

It may simply be socio-cultural differences in mindsets, one country's acceptability is another's poison, at least for the author.
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Sekaro



Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 97
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:09 am Reply with quote
I would give this a chance but March Comes In Like A Lion exists so no Laughing
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings



Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 559
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:23 am Reply with quote
Sekaro wrote:
I would give this a chance but March Comes In Like A Lion exists so no Laughing


Why does March Comes In Like A Lion existing make it hard for you to read this? There is allowed to be more than one story about shogi.
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Sekaro



Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 97
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:31 am Reply with quote
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:
Sekaro wrote:
I would give this a chance but March Comes In Like A Lion exists so no Laughing


Why does March Comes In Like A Lion existing make it hard for you to read this? There is allowed to be more than one story about shogi.


Cus I would rather read March Comes In Lie A Lion again than a series about lolis playing shogi. Its all about preference. I never said anything about not wanting more series about shogi.
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danpmss



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 526
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:40 am Reply with quote
zztop wrote:
switchgear1131 wrote:
I would recommend it to if it was not ruined by the pedophilia that oozes from its plot. It could have been an amazing series but the creator and editor had to ruin it with that trash. The fact that it seems to be leaning hard into the MC and the child is holding it back like most series that take the same route.


The author was questioned about the loli aspect; his defence was that he wanted to try something different in writing female characters for male readers.

Quote:
(T)here are two main factions (of light novel readers' female preferences): younger girls versus older girls, or little sisters versus big sisters. Childhood friends aren't really that popular when they're around the same age as the protagonist. So when faced with the prospect of choosing between one of the main factions, I decided that I may as well go with little girls this time. I wanted to try something new.

I didn't set out to write Ryuo in a perverted way. It's more like I wanted the readers to think of the characters as cute, in a little sister kind of way. I don't know how the readers will take it, though.


animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2018-02-08/shirow-shiratori-author-of-the-ryuo-work-is-never-done/.126909

It may simply be socio-cultural differences in mindsets, one country's acceptability is another's poison, at least for the author.


He saying that he "didn't set out to write Ryuo in a perverted way" doesn't really mean that the final product didn't end up being exactly that, just that it wasn't his intention when he started writing it.

In Japan this isn't nearly as acceptable socially nor culturally as you think it is, it's niche even otaku culture-wise. In fact, most of the prejudice with otaku culture to this day in Japan came back in the late 80s with a murderer pedo otaku case.
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zztop



Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 408
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:45 am Reply with quote
danpmss wrote:
zztop wrote:
switchgear1131 wrote:
I would recommend it to if it was not ruined by the pedophilia that oozes from its plot. It could have been an amazing series but the creator and editor had to ruin it with that trash. The fact that it seems to be leaning hard into the MC and the child is holding it back like most series that take the same route.


The author was questioned about the loli aspect; his defence was that he wanted to try something different in writing female characters for male readers.

Quote:
(T)here are two main factions (of light novel readers' female preferences): younger girls versus older girls, or little sisters versus big sisters. Childhood friends aren't really that popular when they're around the same age as the protagonist. So when faced with the prospect of choosing between one of the main factions, I decided that I may as well go with little girls this time. I wanted to try something new.

I didn't set out to write Ryuo in a perverted way. It's more like I wanted the readers to think of the characters as cute, in a little sister kind of way. I don't know how the readers will take it, though.


animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2018-02-08/shirow-shiratori-author-of-the-ryuo-work-is-never-done/.126909

It may simply be socio-cultural differences in mindsets, one country's acceptability is another's poison, at least for the author.


He saying that he "didn't set out to write Ryuo in a perverted way" doesn't really mean that the final product didn't end up being exactly that, just that it wasn't his intention when he started writing it.

In Japan this isn't nearly as acceptable socially nor culturally as you think it is, it's niche even otaku culture-wise. In fact, most of the prejudice with otaku culture to this day in Japan came back in the late 80s with a murderer pedo otaku case.


I had a feeling it could be considered as niche over there.
Sometimes I can understand why stuff like this would prompt calls for greater regulation/control of LN/manga output, although I understand their community highly prizes their creative freedoms to explore taboo and would never stand for such control.

I heard those freedoms make Japan quite enticing for certain foreign artists - for example, South Korean manhwa artist Boichi left for Japan to continue his career, citing greater freedom of speech and expression in their business than Korea's.

Quote:
(The Korean government's implementation of the 1997 Juvenile Protection Act led to)...many Korean mangaka and editors...being prosecuted. The Korean PAT (Parent-Teacher Association) and prosecutors claimed that our manga were harmful for children and teens. They treated us like criminals. At times, they even called us to court...(Also) Korea's (4 major seinen manga) magazines were forced to cease publication by law... and bookstores no longer welcome or display adult and young adult manga magazine and titles. They even look down on kids manga.

I thought this was completely unfair to mangaka and the Korean manga industry. I had started to draw manga, write articles, and protest on the street about the freedom of speech and expression offered through manga. I wanted to prove to them that nobody, no amount of power, could win against a mangaka’s right hand and passion for creation..


https://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-feature/2014/04/19/feature-qa-with-manga-artist-boichi
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unready



Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 377
Location: Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:07 pm Reply with quote
I didn't really find the show all that risque. The scene in the first episode where Ai #1 takes a shower is actually pretty non-sexual. Nothing had to be covered with convenient clouds of steam or streaks of light that would be removed (wink wink) in the home video release. The only thing that comes close in the rest of the series is a scene much later when Keika, Ginko, and Ai #1 are in a public bath, which is much more about Keika (who's 25, just as a reminder). That scene also contains no elements that had to be obscured for broadcast.

A show about girls playing shogi could (maybe even should) be perceived as encouraging young girls to break gender stereotypes, although, except for Ai #2 and Keika, I didn't really buy their motivation. Ai #2 and Keika learned by playing with their fathers. I buy that for those two, but only for those two. The central conceit is that Ai #1 was overcome by a powerful desire to play shogi after seeing seeing Yaichi play once, because she thought it was super cool. Then it turns out she's a shogi genius who can solve 60-move puzzles in 10 seconds. That's a lot of disbelief to have to suspend.

There are other points over which I think I'd disagree with some posters here, although they haven't provided opinions other than vague creepiness.

For example, when Ai #1 forms a study group and brings 3 more girls to Yaichi's apartment, that's credible, I think. Girls have friends, who are usually other girls of the same age. Girls would form a group of just girls to study someplace where there aren't boys (except for the mentor). In fact, I think the more interesting parts of the show are the ones with the girls in tournament play, not the parts with Yaichi trying to defend his title.

The details of tournament play, the details of the ranking systems, how the female ranking system is different from that for male players, how players go from being amateur to pro, and how most of the work of playing shogi is about researching different setups and exchanges on their own or in study groups are probably the things that made the Shogi Federation writer recommend this title for introducing new people to the game.

I think March Comes in Like a Lion is probably a better story, but it's not really about shogi. Shogi happens, but the story is about all the other things that happen around it. The Ryuo's Work is Never Done is all about the shogi.


Last edited by unready on Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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marshmallowpie



Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 169
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:07 pm Reply with quote
It's weird to see it endorsed like this when the loli aspect definitely makes it not for everyone, but I gotta admit I love how the combo of professional shogi and loli harem creates this very unique and specific fantasy. There are so many light novels that are just the same thing over and over, but this isn't one of them. I may not be into shogi or loli, but I can appreciate how this work can strongly appeal to any members of the likely quite small amount of people who are really into those two things.
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings



Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 559
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:39 pm Reply with quote
unready wrote:
A show about girls playing shogi could (maybe even should) be perceived as encouraging young girls to break gender stereotypes, although, except for Ai #2 and Keika, I didn't really buy their motivation. Ai #2 and Keika learned by playing with their fathers. I buy that for those two, but only for those two. The central conceit is that Ai #1 was overcome by a powerful desire to play shogi after seeing seeing Yaichi play once, because she thought it was super cool. Then it turns out she's a shogi genius who can solve 60-move puzzles in 10 seconds. That's a lot of disbelief to have to suspend.


The book elaborates on how exactly Ai is such a genius, and it's more than just talent, she also has an incredibly strong memory. It's explained that she had spent a few weeks going through and solving a famous book of over a hundred increasingly difficult puzzles, memorized the solutions, and whenever she sees a specific combination of pieces that remind her of any of those puzzles, she acts based on the solution she had come up with prior. This is why it's mentioned she's much stronger the closer a match gets to its conclusion than near the beginning when hardly any moves have been made. The longer a match goes on, the more likely it is that just the right arrangement will show itself and give Ai a strong opportunity to go for the win. Which is a believably immature method of victory for someone her age without proper training. But overall it's a mix of raw talent, instinct, and memory.

And while I'm at it, Ginko was already a really good and passionate player as a child, but ever since losing to her master once when she was only about 4 years old, she burned with the white hot flames of vengeance and obsessively hounded him until he was forced to make her an apprentice, and then when Yaichi came along and proved to be someone with even more skill than her, she (just as obsessively) honed herself so she wouldn't be left in the dust. Which is a very Ginko motivation.

The Ryuo's Work is Never Done is a story where damn near every character of significance is some kind of prodigy, so it's not gonna be winning awards for realism in that regard any time soon, but I think it does a believable enough job of it.
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Fred Lougee



Joined: 01 Oct 2018
Posts: 74
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:22 pm Reply with quote
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings wrote:


The book elaborates on how exactly Ai is such a genius, and it's more than just talent, she also has an incredibly strong memory. It's explained that she had spent a few weeks going through and solving a famous book of over a hundred increasingly difficult puzzles, memorized the solutions, and whenever she sees a specific combination of pieces that remind her of any of those puzzles, she acts based on the solution she had come up with prior. This is why it's mentioned she's much stronger the closer a match gets to its conclusion than near the beginning when hardly any moves have been made. The longer a match goes on, the more likely it is that just the right arrangement will show itself and give Ai a strong opportunity to go for the win. Which is a believably immature method of victory for someone her age without proper training. But overall it's a mix of raw talent, instinct, and memory.



I actually find that believable from my own experiences playing chess. My dad taught me to play starting when I was about 9, one of the books I learned from was 1001 Chess Endings by Fred Reinfeld. It was mostly forced mate situations from games but the last 150 or so were composed problems, super tricky stuff.I didn't really bother with those, I mostly did the normal forced mate scenarios and it helped me to understand positional chess better. I got to where I was pretty good for only ever being a casual player, moved on to other stuff, would occasionally play a game or two when I found a chess friend.

Then when I was about 30 I started spending a couple of evenings a week at a coffee shop where a few really good chess players hung out, started playing them. They critiqued my game, told me that if I took it seriously I would probably have a rating of about 1700, whatever that meant, but okay. The coffee shop was near a couple of colleges and students would come in because they heard it was a chess hot spot, so the gang started using me to vet the challengers. Didn't really mind but most of these kids had no business pushing pawns.

One game, I was playing Black, White castled right off and started working his epic attack. In response I started setting up an assault on his castled position. After about 15 moves or so, I looked at where he was going, realized that the only thing stopping me from setting in motion an 8-move forced mate sequence was one piece of his in the way. I had to bait it out of the way, and do so in such a manner that he though he was getting an advantage. It was a knight which was blocking the path of one of my bishops, so I pushed a pawn into that knight's attacking zone in attack of another piece of his, he jumped it thinking "Free pawn", my bishop took his pawn at G2, I said "Check...eight". Wound up sacking both rooks and a bishop to nail his king in the corner with my queen and a knight. That was Reinfeld in my memory when I was 12. He taught me that.
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