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INTEREST: Kameha Con Responds to Recent Guest Cancellations


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Vanadise



Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 230
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:43 pm Reply with quote
Cutiebunny wrote:
To answer your question, you only need to look at how the convention scene has changed in the last 15-20 years. Integrity is easily sacrificed for profit.

That is true of (some, not all) very large conventions, but it's not like small ones have gone away. Heck, I'd say there are more than ever before. When I was a baby anime nerd, the only convention I knew about was an 8 hour drive from me, and now there are several every year that are less than a few hours away. Just a week ago I was at a tiny little con that only had a few hundred attendees and a grand total of one (1) industry guest who hung out at the bar and chatted with people, and we all had a very pleasant time. Industry expos are not fan conventions, but there's room for both.
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Steve Minecraft



Joined: 13 Feb 2019
Posts: 120
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:56 pm Reply with quote
Ashabel wrote:
Nick Rekieta made a public post on his Twitter claiming that the con was being terrorized by Chris Sabat and Monica Rial and threatened by them with legal action, complete with what was allegedly screenshots of phone texts. I suppose he didn't think that anyone would reach out to Kamehacon organizers and get a copy of Mignogna's contract.

Given that Nick Rekieta repeatedly and loudly claimed to represent Vic Mignogna's interests, I intend to hold Vic equally responsible for every piece of nonsense Rekieta says on the matter.


Yeah... that's not how it works. Rekieta has said repeatedly he doesn't represent Vic.

I don't know what you mean about him not counting on someone actually getting a hold of Vic's contract. Nick and Vic's lawyer has been in contact with KamehaCon for over a week now and presumably have had access to his contract for awhile. Even this article by ANN confirms Vic could sue KamehaCon from cancelling him, and that KamehaCon can sue the people who are dropping, which is what they were talking about for a week now. We also knew Vic was being re-invited before it was officially announced because of them as well. If these people are saying something, maybe it's worth listening to them because they apparently have more info than anyone else does about this situation.
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supersqueak



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 187
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:00 am Reply with quote
Omegaplib wrote:
They're sacrificing the main cast of the series just for the guy who voiced Broly? As far as I know it was supposed to be a convention to celebrate Dragon Ball and not meet up for fans who love Vic just because he played Edward Elric.


True. Seriously if people want to bring Vic Migngogna back to the convention circuit eventually whatever whether you believe his innocence or not that is up to you to decide for yourself but bringing him to Kameha Con specifically when they already uninvited him and had Monica Rial coming was just gross and unethical. Okay so the Broly movie made a bunch of money and all but his character doesn't even appear in any of the series like it's not worth it to alienate core players in the franchise at a DBZ convention. They are not even thinking about the actual fans of the franchise it's not a general anime convention.
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Asaaaasd



Joined: 07 Nov 2018
Posts: 48
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:09 am Reply with quote
n1nn1nn1n wrote:


Where is the evidence they didn't do a proper investigation? Maybe one company might skip straight to firing but both took their time, acknowledged they were looking into it, and then fired him.

In the case of Funimation, firing one of your more prolific VAs and cast members from the Broly movie after it made bank for them, without cause makes no sense. If there was no cause they could have gone, "We looked into claims against Vic but found there wasn't substantial evidence to backup them up" and yes it'd still leave some unhappy but they could still stick with the fact they looked and found nothing. The problem is they apparently did look and several VAs - coworkers - have agreed there was cause to kick him. We're beyond just a mob at that point.

[EDIT: Removed excessive nesting. - Key]

I'm not saying it's a sure thing they didn't do a proper investigation, however, the investigation was started and concluded rather quickly, and I don't think that Vic would be doubling down, hire a law firm, and potentially take legal action against his accusers if they had found enough evidence to fire him, in addition to that, the actions that his accusers allege his so disgusting and clearly illegal that I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't hand over that evidence to the proper authorities to have Vic be charged with actual crimes. I never called the anti-Vic crowd a mob, however, it would make sense for Funi to kowtow to what they believe the overwhelming consensus to be. I, personally, thought that Vic would have no future in the industry even before Funi fired him, just because the amount of accusations that seemed credible against him seemed like any project he took part in would be widely boycotted, so I could easily understand why somebody in charge of that would think keeping him around, even if he were innocent, would be more trouble than it was worth. As for the Broly thing, I'm sure that he was regarded as somebody that could easily be replaced, since there have been very few voice actors in the US anime scene whose replacing has caused harm to their series(only one I can think of was that Sonic VA being replaced like a decade ago).
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Anthony.P



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 52
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:10 am Reply with quote
Scion Drake wrote:
ongopogou wrote:
Just wait for court, the truth will be revealed there. This includes you ANN


Good Lord its like every-time someone gets explained that this isn't something that needs to be settled in court, another one pops up.

He was stopped being contacted due to misconduct & the internal investigations involving 2 companies.

They don't need a Goddamn court to settle this.


It just goes to show Vic's defenders don't know the first thing about court and law, let alone sexual assault. The apologism/victim blaming on display each and every time is never not maddening.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:30 am Reply with quote
Yeah, so there's a few more posts gone here - one or two real offenders and a couple of others who quoted that person. Most recently it was for swearing and "victims" in quotes.

Regardless of whether you not you think Vic is innocent or how you feel about the issue, the lack of pressing charges doesn't make someone any less a victim. Implying that someone isn't a victim because they don't go to court is stupid and offensive. We've made it clear that we won't tolerate that and have stated in other threads that this is off-limits.


Last edited by Key on Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Illia Sadri



Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:32 am Reply with quote
Cutiebunny wrote:
From reading your other post, you've been attending and/or staffing conventions for almost as long as I have. You were around for the days when now behemoth cons were still in their infancy and so was I.

That being said, you also are aware of how the convention scene has changed. Conventions used to be a place where you could meet fellow nerds and bond with them over their opinions on dubs, "best girl", the correct pronunciation of a character's name, etc. The larger ones are now heavily industry controlled, with convention events being specifically designed to cater to a company (ie. Fashion shows highlighting one specific designer). At one time, the movie room at a convention was whatever a staff member torrented before the con. Now, those rooms are showing whatever wares Funi, Crunchy or whatever sponsor has opted to show. You were also around for the days when a convention would have 1 or 2 staffers with a special guest rolodex, whereas now inviting guests is usually arranged by whoever industry sponsors want to bring. Dealer Hall arrangements used to be done by whomever paid the appropriate fees and was first to snag the space. Now, for large conventions, space is controlled by those industries whose presence brings in attendees and/or who bring in convention guests of honor.

To answer your question, you only need to look at how the convention scene has changed in the last 15-20 years. Integrity is easily sacrificed for profit.


Oh, I think we both know the full trajectory and indeed I was involved with a number of the giant conventions as they emerged (started around 2000). A good friend to this day who was my partner in crime in managing probably then the most insane programming schedule at a con, marveled in hindsight how we basically had to figure out how to make conventions viable businesses. And we were like 19.

I also did see the increasing commercialization. There were two major drivers to stepping away. The misogyny is probably straightforward. I actually thought that would get better with time and more an annoyance that goes with growing pains. The other was the increasing industry pressure and move into these big tentpole events. I lamented DJ con. And how fan-created content like Anime Hell and AMVs and even friggin cosplay get screwed over by various shows to make way for big name shows. More and more shows started charging for a wider range of the events to the point the big shows are basically pay per event from top to bottom.

It's actually funny to see how it is Vic tearing this apart because a big part of why it went on so long was that exact reason of money and being a business and working with the industry and thus Vic to promote these big titles. He was the first massive rock star style draw. Through all this I am seeing lots of other people confirm the exact kinds of things I did which was he was simply too much of a draw to ban. No matter how much he did, we had growth goals to make and he was a guaranteed bump for attendees. I know because this was how I got into data analytics and there was no question as to the value of his draw.

It doesn't make it right.

And I really would love to see a con go back to some of those basics again, where it isn't focused on just celebrity and influencer culture but being able to learn about and discuss our niche hobbies, knowing SOMEONE will know your obscure favorite title. The guests and big premieres are fun to have and always a part of that experience, but it used to be balanced in relative harmony with the fan panels, workshops, and interactive events like game shows. Today feels like camping for autographs and a select couple guest or industry panels and it is soulless.

Some of my fondest con memories to this day involve random story circles, often when artist alley would close and half of them you set up in the atrium and do commissions while shooting the shit. The less fancy stuff that just involved people with common interests.

Instead of being nostalgic for pop culture, maybe we are missing some of that human connection.
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unready



Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 391
Location: Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:01 am Reply with quote
Illia Sadri wrote:
And for crying out loud, Funimation is a private company in Texas, a right to work state where all their VAs are under contract rather than salary. They have every right to fire him for any reason specified. Same thing with every convention. They are privately owned and do not need a court conviction to decide that they rather not conduct business with a person.

A company can fire a person for any reason or for no reason.

This particular convention has mutual liability contract terms. Neither party to the contract can unilaterally cancel the agreement without penalty. Maybe in the future, they'll change the terms of the contract they use based on lessons learned this time. Meanwhile, it's not the future yet.
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Utsuro no Hako



Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 1003
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:14 am Reply with quote
ImperialPanda wrote:


Here's how things work:
1. Funimation conducts an "inernal investigation" and determines that Vic should be terminated due to misconduct. They terminate him, fine.
2. Vic disagrees, sues Funimation for breach of contract because he denies the findings of Funimation's investigation.
3. Now, yes, Funimation needs to prove in court, to whatever level of proof required, that Vic actually performed misconduct that permits Funimation to terminate him for cause, or Vic can claim damages.


As has been explained in every previous thread on this subject, voice actors are freelance contractors. They are not employees, and they do not operate under a singular contract. They're hired on a show by show basis, signing a new contract for each one. If a company decides not to hire one anymore, the VA has no legal recourse -- there's no right to be hired for a job.

The only way he could go after Funi is if he signed a contract for The Morose Mononokean 2 and it didn't have a termination clause covering misconduct, which is highly unlikely. Keeping around a worker with a history of sexual harassment is a good way for a company to get sued, and any competent lawyer would make sure this is covered in a labor contract.
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Florete



Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 154
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:19 am Reply with quote
ImperialPanda wrote:
But people generally don't go to court if they know they'll lose.

You're not wrong with this statement, but there are definitely more reasons why people won't go to court.
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Araragifeels



Joined: 06 Sep 2017
Posts: 87
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:27 am Reply with quote
[quote="n1nn1nn1n"]

I am not sure if vic is or is not guilty. I won't trust the media or Twitter. I won't take.a side because both side is adding a lot information that is not concrete enough to be trusted while also taking advantage of situation to get attention and get followers. I am going to take a criminal Justice perspective, and wait out to see if this is taken to court and wait more factual and trustworthy information to be reveal to public by a judge. I don't care, if you don't like my stance on the situation and criticize me for it.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 16527
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:33 am Reply with quote
Illia Sadri wrote:
And I really would love to see a con go back to some of those basics again, where it isn't focused on just celebrity and influencer culture but being able to learn about and discuss our niche hobbies, knowing SOMEONE will know your obscure favorite title. The guests and big premieres are fun to have and always a part of that experience, but it used to be balanced in relative harmony with the fan panels, workshops, and interactive events like game shows. Today feels like camping for autographs and a select couple guest or industry panels and it is soulless.

Some of my fondest con memories to this day involve random story circles, often when artist alley would close and half of them you set up in the atrium and do commissions while shooting the shit. The less fancy stuff that just involved people with common interests.

Instead of being nostalgic for pop culture, maybe we are missing some of that human connection.

While this is straying quite a bit off topic, I don't think this has entirely gone away. I've attended Anime Central (the biggest Midwestern 'con and commonly in the Top 5 for attendance over the past few years) for several years now, and while I only have attendee observations to base this on, I haven't at all felt that it was anything approaching soulless or corporate-dominated. Quite the opposite, in fact: it's the most vibrant expression of fandom that I see each year.

So while it's entirely possible that some big 'cons have gone the route you describe, I feel confident that not all of them have.
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Ali07



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 3322
Location: Victoria, Australia
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:34 am Reply with quote
n1nn1nn1n wrote:
Also, the fact that Kamaha Con feels the need to say authorities will be around and that they supposedly have a zero tolerance policy doesn't say great things either, if they feels they HAVE to prepared for the possibility of him being a creepy.

See, I didn't see that at all, in their statement. Way I saw it was that they were saying, "Anyone anti-Vic (VAs who cancelled) would've been protected from any pro-Vic person (who happens to be idiotic) from trying to do anything to them."

Even though I find it strange that the con went back on the Vic invite, I just hope that pro/anti supporters don't go to the con and do anything stupid. The vast majority of people going are just there to have fun, don't ruin it.


Last edited by Ali07 on Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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n1nn1nn1n



Joined: 25 Mar 2019
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:37 am Reply with quote
[quote="Araragifeels"]
n1nn1nn1n wrote:


I am not sure if vic is or is not guilty. I won't trust the media or Twitter. I won't take.a side because both side is adding a lot information that is not concrete enough to be trusted while also taking advantage of situation to get attention and get followers. I am going to take a criminal Justice perspective, and wait out to see if this is taken to court and wait more factual and trustworthy information to be reveal to public by a judge. I don't care, if you don't like my stance on the situation and criticize me for it.


But we're not talking just talking the media or Twitter. We're talking two professional companies that have much reason to not blindly act without looking over the evidence and making judgements based on a formal investigation. Lots of people point to the idea that but what if they made a mistake and fired someone without cause but it's far more likely they found something and had to terminate him because they'd be held liable if Vic continued to harass their people despite them knowing about it. They have every reason to take a good look, if only to look out for themselves.

It's as close as you're going to get to a "legal" judgement because, as many posters pointed out, many incidents fall outside the statue of limitations so they literally can't be taken to court that easily.
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Freyanne



Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 215
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:29 am Reply with quote
El Hermano wrote:
unready wrote:
I predict marketing death for the con if it sues the guests who withdrew.


I doubt that. People have been attacking Anime Matsuri for years and saying it has a horrible reputation, yet it's still the 2nd biggest anime convention in the US. Twitter reputation doesn't count for as much as people like to think it does. Most con goers don't pay attention to online drama.

Anime Matsuri is actually not nearly as big as they say/try to make themselves out to be, as someone who used to go to the con pre-controversy. They tend to fluff their numbers up to sound like a lot of people go to the con (iirc, they count "per body going in and out of the building", not "per person who buys a badge/day pass", if that makes sense). One of my friends even went last year on Saturday and said that outside of the dealers room and artist alley, it was a "nearly dead/empty" con. Even if a decent chunk of people still end up going nowadays, they are no where near the numbers of other big-name conventions in the US.
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