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INTEREST: Kameha Con Responds to Recent Guest Cancellations


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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5360
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:39 am Reply with quote
El Hermano wrote:

I doubt that. People have been attacking Anime Matsuri for years and saying it has a horrible reputation, yet it's still the 2nd biggest anime convention in the US. Twitter reputation doesn't count for as much as people like to think it does. Most con goers don't pay attention to online drama.


Uhhh I'm hardly an expert in American anime cons but I'm pretty sure Anime Expo, Otakon, Sakuracon and even the very new CR Con are much bigger than Anime Matsuri. Also, Anime Matsuri doesn't only have a "horrible reputation", the organizer is well known to be a sexual abuser, which makes his support of Mignogna not in the slightest surprising and also doesn't make Mignogna look any less guilty
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Mewshuji



Joined: 24 Mar 2019
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:45 am Reply with quote
It's brave, of course, to share a story of oneself being molested or otherwise sexually harassed or assaulted.

However, please keep in mind that for every person who says "well, I was sexually assaulted before, I don't know why someone wouldn't come forward/act a certain way" there are other survivors who, well, totally get it. Because being sexually harassed or assaulted is a violation of oneself to the point that how one copes will be as different as one's personality. Some run straight to law enforcement... And get met with laughs or have their case thrown out or not even looked at 3 out of 4 times. Some realize they may not be believed and stay quiet. This is especially true among family members, friends, and co-workers. You stay quiet so as not to harm the rest of the family, the friend group, the workplace.

This is clearly why so many professionals with Vic stories have stayed quiet until now. They didn't want to upset the fans, or cause problems at work. Don't forget, it's not that long ago that a woman complaining to HR about catcalling or inappropriate touching would be met with a "men will be men" response or something, and would be considered a rabble rouser if they didn't accept it.

I mean, if it's possible in this world that a spouse can be betrayed by the person who supposedly is in love with them via being raped... And still stay with them... I'm not sure how it's a leap to believe co-workers- who are professional actors no less and good at pretending - would play nice in front of the fans to not cause issues to the company or their work.

Lest we forget they aren't the only ones. There are dozens of stories of sexual misconduct from fans as well. As well as stories of him just being an asshole. In my case, he was rather creepy towards my younger sibling. At the time they didn't know who he even was-- they were there for Todd. But Vic just leapt out of his seat and hugged them without asking, only to have them awkwardly pull away while I told him what was up. Naturally this was not assault, or even harassment, but I'm sure one can see why I believe the allegations given what I was there to witness.

Also, it's about time to retire the phrase witch hunt, at least for this (prolonged) case. First, a witch hunt would require multiple people being accused. For now, it's only Vic, really. Second, no one's being killed- the reason McCarthyism was even compared to the witch hunt in the first place.

Hell, no one even wants Vic arrested. Part of this is because no one wants to have a trial. Standing trial is a long, long process that can take months or even years depending on how busy the courts are. And in the meantime, Vic could very much get away with doing bad things to fans or co-workers. It's much more prudent in protecting people to out Vic for who he is (and who, again, people have known for years to be) and have him ousted from job opportunities and con appearances until he proves he's a better man. Part of this is because... Yeah, people want him to improve. To be better. Monica notably wants this herself, and it's part of why she took so long to come out with it. It's easier to become a better person outside of jail than in.

And you know what? Vic himself even said he was going to see a life counselor. I truly thought he'd become that better man... until Rickieta the Grifter rolled into town looking for mad money and convinced him to get a lawyer.

We could have had a good end for everyone. The victims would be vindicated, no one else needed to get hurt, and Vic could have been back after a few years of counseling. We've seen accused sex pests get their careers back QUITE easily after lying low for a bit, and it could have been the same for Vic.

Now? He's thrown his hat in with a man who spouts legitimate hate speech and is going after individuals and organizations to "salvage his career". His latest moves, at best, might sink other careers potentially. But salvage his? Sorry, but he's done, outside of no name preachy Christian cartoons, maybe. He's proven he is a legal liability to anyone who does business with him, and utterly irrepentant even for what he's admitted to doing.
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Ashabel



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 313
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:24 am Reply with quote
Steve Minecraft wrote:
Yeah... that's not how it works. Rekieta has said repeatedly he doesn't represent Vic.


No, that is precisely how that works. When you publicly announce association with someone and then don't deny anything they speak on your behalf, then you are responsible for what they spew. So if Rikieta decides to spew random hostile rumormongering nonsense in Vic's honor, it absolutely does reflect on Vic as a person.

It's about time Vic's supporters realized that their behavior does reflect on how he is perceived as a person.
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Drunk Samurai



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 67
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:37 am Reply with quote
Ashabel wrote:
Steve Minecraft wrote:
Yeah... that's not how it works. Rekieta has said repeatedly he doesn't represent Vic.


No, that is precisely how that works. When you publicly announce association with someone and then don't deny anything they speak on your behalf, then you are responsible for what they spew. So if Rikieta decides to spew random hostile rumormongering nonsense in Vic's honor, it absolutely does reflect on Vic as a person.

It's about time Vic's supporters realized that their behavior does reflect on how he is perceived as a person.


That is just entirely false. Only the people saying that stuff are the ones responsible. Otherwise by your logic both sides would need to address each person saying something individually.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 4727
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:43 am Reply with quote
Mewshuji wrote:
Second, no one's being killed- the reason McCarthyism was even compared to the witch hunt in the first place.


You don't have to be killed to be destroyed. Unless you are planning on living the rest of your life as a hermit and living off of the land, social death can be just as effective physical death, and may eventually lead to that anyway. This is not an all or nothing thing, depends on the situation.

But the idea that no serious long term damage can happen is a fallacy.
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5360
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:29 am Reply with quote
Ashabel wrote:
Steve Minecraft wrote:
Yeah... that's not how it works. Rekieta has said repeatedly he doesn't represent Vic.


No, that is precisely how that works. When you publicly announce association with someone and then don't deny anything they speak on your behalf, then you are responsible for what they spew. So if Rikieta decides to spew random hostile rumormongering nonsense in Vic's honor, it absolutely does reflect on Vic as a person.

It's about time Vic's supporters realized that their behavior does reflect on how he is perceived as a person.


They want to have their cake and eat it too. If one says "Rekieta isn't actually Vic's lawyer and all the lawsuit nonsense he spews is a conspiracy theory AND he's conning everyone with that GoFundMe" they'll get back with "actually he is constantly in touch with Vic's attorneys and Vic acknowledged the GoFundMe", but if you say he's a neo-nazi and his views give a really poor image of Vic by being associated with him and also he lied about Sabat blackmailing Kamehacon it's "uhm no actually because he isn't Vic's lawyer". Even though Vic himself says the GoFundMe was started by "a friend"
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Errinundra
Moderator


Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 5769
Location: Melbourne, Oz
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:53 am Reply with quote
More posts removed. Keep it nice.
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johnnysasaki



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 646
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:13 am Reply with quote
[quote="ECW28"]
AmpersandsUnited wrote:
n1nn1nn1n wrote:
several professional and fan testimonies (which, by law, counts as evidence), and the fact his bad behavior was an open secret for decades.


Vollmer was gone after GT.


Wrong.Vollmer kept voicing her in the games for years.In fact,both her and Nadolny voiced their characters one last time for Raging Blast and Revenge of King Piccolo just months before Kai's dubbing begins
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Cutiebunny



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 1548
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:50 am Reply with quote
@Key - I attended ACEN last year, and while the con is not soulless, with the sponsor islands like the huge Crunchyroll booth and the Bang Zoom(?) dub tryouts area, the con is well on its way to becoming it.

My experience has been that once a con hits 25K, it radically starts to change from being a mostly “for fans, by fans” experience to one that is heavily industry controlled. Things like concerts that were once free are now add-ons. Masquerade/Dance and AMVs are also charged. Everything eventually becomes a la carte and it’s the attendee that suffers for it.
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Aresef



Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 635
Location: MD
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:02 am Reply with quote
I still think that allowing him to show up actually leaves the con with more legal liability than not allowing him to come.
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Ashabel



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 313
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:02 am Reply with quote
Drunk Samurai wrote:
That is just entirely false. Only the people saying that stuff are the ones responsible. Otherwise by your logic both sides would need to address each person saying something individually.


I'm sorry, but that card just won't play out the way you want. If Nick Rekieta's opinions wouldn't at least partially reflect Vic Mignogna's, then Vic would publicly speak up against Rekieta's decision to air out what is supposed to be private logs of conversations with Kamehacon's organizers in a public Twitter post. As it is, Rekieta was apparently provided with sensitive information and then proceeded to use it to publicly fuel a harassment campaign, while Vic decided to ride along in hopes that it will somehow salvage his reputation.

Like CrowLia said, Vic supporters are way too eager to have their cake and to eat it too. You have chosen to throw your lot with an infamous Neo-Nazi movement, except now that it resulted in Vic's supporters developing a reputation for doxxing, harassment, bomb threats and fake legalese, you're all suddenly "Nu uh those people don't actually represent our opinions, we swears it."

It doesn't matter what you do, you won't be able to change a tune halfway. In the end, Vic's supporters have chosen to salvage his career by turning him into a Neo-Nazi mascot and that's what you're going to live with.
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Nonaka Machine Gun B



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 745
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:18 am Reply with quote
unready wrote:
This particular convention has mutual liability contract terms. Neither party to the contract can unilaterally cancel the agreement without penalty. Maybe in the future, they'll change the terms of the contract they use based on lessons learned this time. Meanwhile, it's not the future yet.


The "penalty" is no one who pulled out can get their money back. Kameha Con is not going to sue anybody because it would be insane to be the con with the reputation for suing guests. They've dug themselves into quite a hole for the few extra coin Mignogna supposedly brings.

It's all a mess. The cynic in me feels this guy is just gonna move into a less public line of work and continue to hurt people, and we just won't hear about it anymore. The circumstances surrounding his short tenure as a police officer are very strange as well.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1876
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:13 am Reply with quote
Violynne wrote:

So damaging was this mob mentality, the actual person of at least one photo had to come out and defend the stupidity the photo implied Vic was molesting the girl without consent.


I don't know why people keep missing this point: the photos were not meant to be proof of non-consensual behavior (that's what the testimonies were for). The photos were evidence of a pattern of inappropriate behavior against underage girls. Just because the girl enjoyed being kissed on the cheek by a middle-aged man doesn't make it appropriate behavior to engage in, something Vic himself seemed to acknowledge when he previously stated he'd go into counseling to try and unlearn that behavior.
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Ashabel



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 313
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:29 am Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
I don't know why people keep missing this point: the photos were not meant to be proof of non-consensual behavior (that's what the testimonies were for). The photos were evidence of a pattern of inappropriate behavior against underage girls. Just because the girl enjoyed being kissed on the cheek by a middle-aged man doesn't make it appropriate behavior to engage in, something Vic himself seemed to acknowledge when he previously stated he'd go into counseling to try and unlearn that behavior.


Actually, that particular photo was posted as an example of cases where Vic's behavior was consensual, in an effort to make the article more balanced and less instantly damning. But because Vic's female fanbase is moderately insane--or rather, because most of them are groomed in a cult-like environment by his mother, she demanded for the photo to be removed and then spread false rumors about the fashion in which it was used.

Obviously ANN aren't going to sue her for defamation because an established and profitable company suing a single middle-class female millenial is sort of like using a ballistic missile to fight a common cold. But the truth behind the story is very readily available and trying to use her version exposes you as a bad faith actor pretty fast.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1876
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:38 am Reply with quote
Ashabel wrote:

Actually, that particular photo was posted as an example of cases where Vic's behavior was consensual, in an effort to make the article more balanced and less instantly damning. But because Vic's female fanbase is moderately insane--or rather, because most of them are groomed in a cult-like environment by his mother, she demanded for the photo to be removed and then spread false rumors about the fashion in which it was used.


Hmmm, while I appreciate the intent it was employed under, I can't help but feel that it painted a pretty damning picture when taken as a whole. I don't know why people are popping out of the woodwork to act like "please don't touch underage girls" is suddenly a controversial statement.
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