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Answerman - What's With All The School Uniforms In Anime? [2019-04-03]


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Puniyo



Joined: 08 Oct 2015
Posts: 271
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:36 pm Reply with quote
I didn't understand why this was even asked at first, I didn't even realise the US didn't have school uniforms. Here in the UK it's the norm too.
In primary school I remember actually the teacher telling us why we have uniforms. It's first and foremost a safety measure, so you can easily identify who is and isn't a student. Secondly to prepare you for the real world where you'll have to wear a work uniform. Thirdly to prevent bullying over clothing choices, fourth to prevent having to enforce a dress code and waste time enforcing and penalising the breaking of such rules, and very lastly a sort of PR for that school.

For the people who are saying that it's wrong or the schools to inhibit or control the way a person dresses for self-expression reasons: they're not. You're still completely free to wear what you want when you're not in school. Don't like it, don't go.
Plus in all schools I went to you were free to wear whatever hairstyle, accessories, tights/socks/shoes, etc. you wanted.

Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:

I'm not sure you understand how the social landscape at schools work, either. No American I've spoken to who's talked about their experiences at school has left me with the impression that everyone's differences are accepted and respected.
I think you may be drawing the wrong conclusion here. On the one hand, yes: kids will be kids and tend to make fun of nearly everything, and that includes each other. So of course kids will get teased and perhaps even bullied regarding their fashion choices (any whatever else as well). That said, it is generally lighthearted and it doesn't actually hinder most peoples "expression".

You can't honestly believe that. You're either glossing it over or are wilfully ignorant of the majority of peoples' experiences in school.

As for the reason the sailor uniform is in anime so much? The real reason is that they're cute.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3426
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:54 pm Reply with quote
Puniyo wrote:
Plus in all schools I went to you were free to wear whatever hairstyle, accessories, tights/socks/shoes, etc. you wanted.

Not so in Japan

Quote:
You can't honestly believe that. You're either glossing it over or are wilfully ignorant of the majority of peoples' experiences in school.

We have free dress code in public schools here in Norden(Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Iceland, Norway) and we've turned out pretty well. Don't generalize your experiences.

Quote:
As for the reason the sailor uniform is in anime so much? The real reason is that they're cute.[

That I can agree with. Smile
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:33 pm Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
Though of course, there's no shortage of tights/pantyhose fetishists out there, either. No-win situation?

AkumaChef wrote:
That said, I've heard many references to Japanese students--typically female ones--dealing with inadequate clothing for cold weather. However I suspect that at least some of that has nothing to do with official policy, and rather is students being willing to suffer for their own fashion choices.
ANN once had a feature on that dynamic.
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Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 940
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:20 pm Reply with quote
AkumaChef wrote:
My point was that our school systems are probably not so different as you might think, at least when it comes to the bullying angle. I'm not saying it's not serious--I agree completely that it is. I'm saying it's the same everywhere, uniforms or not.

Pretty much. And my point is that not having uniforms doesn't have an appreciable positive effect on people's ability to express themselves or on being accepting of others differences.
Blanchimont wrote:
Puniyo wrote:
Plus in all schools I went to you were free to wear whatever hairstyle, accessories, tights/socks/shoes, etc. you wanted.

Not so in Japan

Depends on the school, regardless of country.
Blanchimont wrote:
We have free dress code in public schools here in Norden(Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Iceland, Norway) and we've turned out pretty well. Don't generalize your experiences.

The point being made there is that bullying happens regardless of the presence or absence of uniforms. Unless your part of the world has managed to entirely eliminate it, in which case the rest of the world would really love to know how you did it.
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CandisWhite



Joined: 19 Apr 2015
Posts: 282
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:32 am Reply with quote
Puniyo wrote:
I didn't understand why this was even asked at first, I didn't even realise the US didn't have school uniforms. Here in the UK it's the norm too.
In primary school I remember actually the teacher telling us why we have uniforms. It's first and foremost a safety measure, so you can easily identify who is and isn't a student. Secondly to prepare you for the real world where you'll have to wear a work uniform. Thirdly to prevent bullying over clothing choices, fourth to prevent having to enforce a dress code and waste time enforcing and penalising the breaking of such rules, and very lastly a sort of PR for that school.

For the people who are saying that it's wrong or the schools to inhibit or control the way a person dresses for self-expression reasons: they're not. You're still completely free to wear what you want when you're not in school. Don't like it, don't go.
Plus in all schools I went to you were free to wear whatever hairstyle, accessories, tights/socks/shoes, etc. you wanted.

I would love to have an afternoon chat with that teacher because I would have an answer for every justification they used for the need of uniforms.

#1 This is one I can slightly understand, given the overcrowding of many schools, particularly in the inner city, but, ignoring how I feel about uniforms, if I was told that about a school, I would be ill. It's one thing to give young kids an identifying marker on a field trip but to not know your own student body in the everyday, even just by sight, yeesh. Uniforms are a band-aid in this situation but the overcrowding needs to be addressed. We have overcrowded schools here but if someone suggested the best use of dollars to address that was uniforms, I'm pretty sure they'd be frozen out, if not run over with a few proverbial combine harvesters.

#2 is assuming that all people will need to work in stringent environments, with the same standards, which is definitively not the case. There are many different types of professional dress and the expectation is that you can adapt to the necessary one. This is something that adults can learn and/or have been taught over the years from experience. I certainly had no issue adjusting to dress codes after 0 years of uniform wear. As a student that's something you can learn anywhere, and it did have some start with school; You couldn't wear just anything but your options were wide open. As an adult, I certainly am not looking for schools to teach children how to dress; That's something that comes from home.

#3 Uniforms don't address this issue; Teaching children about respect does, regardless of dress codes.

#4 This one is complete horse hockey. 1) Uniforms automatically require a dress code that has to be enforced; I certainly read about a lot of schools "wasting time" doing that. 2) Dress codes, that aren't draconian, pretty much fall in line with what kids usually wear. Pants, jeans, t-shirts, dresses, sweaters, shorts, runners, sandals, all work just fine for schoolwork. I went to a high school where the dress code was essentially don't show up looking like a hooker & don't wear offensive clothing ( with swastikas, slurs, etc.) and there certainly wasn't a rash of kids showing up in boxers and stained wife beaters.

#5 makes me giggle. It comes across as a little posh and snooty; "Oh my goodness, that school lets children wear print dresses and coloured jeans. They have some of the highest grade averages but prints..ugggh. Now here's a perfect school: Uniform look and it costs an average of ₤200 to create such an effect? Jonathan will fit in perfectly there." Reputations have been, and should be, built on more than how students dress.

As to your "just don't go" suggestion, you're coming at it from an angle that the school already has uniforms in place, which is not the case for most of Canada and the US, and that there is a reasonable alternative without uniforms which, according to Wikipedia, is not the case in England where 90% of schools have them. Over here, we already have the freedom to dress in casual clothes for school; We've had that freedom for generations: The introduction of uniforms would TAKE something AWAY from us, something special and beautiful. I have wonderful memories of school, including the ability to wear the many outfits I did over the years; My mind is immediately drawn to the photo of me with Stephanie Tanner hair in a neon green dress (Hello, 1990) on my first day of kindergarten and how much that encapsulates how I felt. I think of all of the different friends I had over the years, their different styles and expressions. These did nothing to take away from our education; We were all very academic ( I spent half of my school career in split grade classes because they always put stronger students in those). The sort of empty-headed Clueless/ Mean Girls behavior that is automatically assigned to students who wear casual clothes just does not exist in any more significant fashion than the uniformed schoolgirls who insist on freezing in skirts and giving themselves colds because it's seen as uncool to do otherwise. And it's awful to treat them as being so. Students who wish to dress simply and/or in a routine are free to do so under casual dress; Students who wish to dress differently under uniform codes are not.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3804
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:56 am Reply with quote
One public elementary school in Ginza recently contracted with Georgio Armani to design a new set of uniforms. They cost over $700. Less well-off parents complained, but the head seems unmoved by the criticisms.. "Though the new uniform is not compulsory, it could create embarrassment for students whose families can't afford it, some commentators said..... At a news conference on Friday, Wada said that he chose Armani because the brand operated a boutique near the school and because it would fit Taimei's identity as a “school of Ginza.” Wada said that the controversy surrounding the choice had not changed his belief that the cost of the new uniforms was worth it, according to news agency reports."

I haven't seen any follow-up about this, but I'm guessing the Armani uniforms are now the standard at Taimei elementary.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/02/09/a-tokyo-public-school-announced-730-armani-uniforms-parents-werent-happy/
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Puniyo



Joined: 08 Oct 2015
Posts: 271
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:43 am Reply with quote
CandisWhite wrote:
snip for space


I must clarify that this was a school in a borough located in a big city, with pretty large classes and a lot of students, where it's incredibly easy for kids to wander off or be messing around the city on school time. It's super easy and cheap to just get on a bus or train and be gone. So it's also to identify the kids outside of the school.
There were quite a few kids that were caught out (and by caught out I mean stopped as they were literally on their way to get themselves involved in gang/drug culture) because a police officer recognised their uniform. The uniform's bought by the parents (unless they can't afford it, they can get funding), and it's a large part of the school's revenue. For the school I went to at least, even though the staff was kinda awful, the money from the uniforms was well-spent on classroom resources. We never had horror stories of the teacher having to buy their own paper and pencils.

It's also simply unrealistic for a teacher who only is in charge of a single class to be able to identify every single student, even ones they've never had a class with before. So if someone isn't wearing the uniform, they instanly know they shouldn't be there.

It's also worth nothing that this was just under 15 years ago, and stringent uniforms in work were definitely the norm, especially where I lived.

Also since I didn't like school I did simply choose to not go. I did my schooling at home and self-studied the subjects that got me into college and university.

I actually kind of appreciated our teacher telling us this stuff though, as I still remember it pretty clearly. She didn't go "this is how it is and how it's supposed to be", she actually went around and asked us what we thought of the usage of uniforms and what are the pros and cons. We all universally came up with similar answers surprisingly, we appreciated the security the uniforms provided but not so much the lack of wearability. The uniform codes were actually loosened a little in response.
I have pretty positive memories of growing up and being able to switch out the colour of my ribbon for the second year's one too. There were lots of bad things that lead to me leaving school but the uniform wasn't one of them.

Now I'm not really all pro-uniform or anything. A lanyard and card could probably replace it and get the same effect. I like not having a uniform in university, but I'm also a grown-ass adult (The courses for industries that do require uniforms do have them, though, even in university). I just don't think it's that big of a deal either way. It had more positive effect than it had negative in my schools at least (I went to a lot), and we still had a good degree of expression in how we chose to wear the uniform. School wasn't the be-all end-all of our lives even at that age. We still wore our own clothes most of the time.


Last edited by Puniyo on Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:41 am Reply with quote
Some people are just not predisposed to wearing uniforms, e.g. those who most value their independence, "creatives," cliques like those emo kids, those who think their uniforms make them look like a tool drone, those who want to look older or be treated more like young-adults instead of mere schoolchildren that their uniforms remind people, etc. They'd avoid schools that require uniforms.
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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 821
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:57 am Reply with quote
Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:

Pretty much. And my point is that not having uniforms doesn't have an appreciable positive effect on people's ability to express themselves or on being accepting of others differences.

It sounds like we agree 100% then!
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AkumaChef



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:04 am Reply with quote
Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:

Pretty much. And my point is that not having uniforms doesn't have an appreciable positive effect on people's ability to express themselves or on being accepting of others differences.

It sounds like we agree 100% then! I never made the claim that uniforms affect individuality.
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PMDR



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:58 pm Reply with quote
To address part of the original question about WHY the school uniforms are so common in anime: anime and manga are a reflection of the life around the authors and artists. That's what they see. That's what they draw. Giant robots or monsters or whatever notwithstanding. The normal and mundane details like what school kid characters wear can just be realistic. There's no need to reinvent that part to tell a story.

For the same reason, the school buildings in many anime and manga look the same, because that's what real schools look like. The classroom layouts, the hallway design, the clock tower look and sound are all standardized to a great extent. And so, how they are drawn or depicted also ends up standardized.

There is much to be said for this approach, in my opinion. We really don't need so many different school building designs. And as a school kid, I would have loved having a uniform instead of all the stupid peer pressure we had to wear fashionable clothes that had absolutely nothing to do with education.
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roxybudgy



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
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Location: Western Australia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:49 am Reply with quote
I'm also from a place where uniforms are the norm (Australia), and from primary to high school, uniforms were required at the schools I attended, and I'm glad that's the case.

The main reason why I liked having a uniform... nothing to do with bullying or safety... was the freedom from having to agonize about what to wear each day. The schools I attended offered girls the option of pants or skirts as long as they were the school colours, and I would alternate between the two depending on the weather.

All this blather about uniforms stifling creativity is nonsense, especially considering that for a large majority of the day kids can wear whatever they want. For as long as I can remember, I've always loved drawing and crafts, and I used to draw on my files and worksheets. I remember drawing birds on my math tests, and one of my teachers put little ticks next to them when marking the tests. And a stroll through the high school arts department where students' paintings, sculptures and photographs were on display is further testament that uniforms have little to no effect on creativity.

I graduated from high school 16 years ago, I currently work in a company that has no uniform, just business casual dress code, but does offer a polo shirt with the company colours. Several employees choose to wear the polo shirt, and if it weren't for the cost of the polo shirts I'd be tempted to wear them too. I know my manager usually wears one for the same reason of not having to agonize over fashion choices.
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fuuma_monou



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
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Location: Quezon City, Philippines
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:07 am Reply with quote
^ Yeah, pretty much my opinion as well. Philippine schools, whether public or private, almost all have uniforms. Heck, some women's colleges have uniforms, too.
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Scalfin



Joined: 18 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:23 pm Reply with quote
roxybudgy wrote:
I'm also from a place where uniforms are the norm (Australia), and from primary to high school, uniforms were required at the schools I attended, and I'm glad that's the case.

The main reason why I liked having a uniform... nothing to do with bullying or safety... was the freedom from having to agonize about what to wear each day. The schools I attended offered girls the option of pants or skirts as long as they were the school colours, and I would alternate between the two depending on the weather.

All this blather about uniforms stifling creativity is nonsense, especially considering that for a large majority of the day kids can wear whatever they want. For as long as I can remember, I've always loved drawing and crafts, and I used to draw on my files and worksheets. I remember drawing birds on my math tests, and one of my teachers put little ticks next to them when marking the tests. And a stroll through the high school arts department where students' paintings, sculptures and photographs were on display is further testament that uniforms have little to no effect on creativity.

I graduated from high school 16 years ago, I currently work in a company that has no uniform, just business casual dress code, but does offer a polo shirt with the company colours. Several employees choose to wear the polo shirt, and if it weren't for the cost of the polo shirts I'd be tempted to wear them too. I know my manager usually wears one for the same reason of not having to agonize over fashion choices.


I think it's less "stiffing" than "not respecting." At least in the US, most of the rolls that require uniforms rather than trusting people to dress themselves properly are menial roles or narrow positions in which the individual is sublimated. The US school system is based on Prussia, which formed its schools as places to come for specific services and in so doing perform certain work. In essence, they're professional spaces.
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poltroon



Joined: 26 Sep 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:51 am Reply with quote
AkumaChef wrote:
Steve Minecraft wrote:

I just assume it's because America has a poor schooling system compared to elsewhere in the world and can't really afford to do uniforms in every public school. That's why you usually only see uniforms at private schools.


I don't disagree with you about the problems with American schools, but money is certainly not the problem. Rather it's how the money is spent. If you look at data regarding school expenditures per student worldwide, the USA is very high on that list, but the rankings on academic performance are far far worse. The USA does not need to spend more money on schools. Rather, it needs to waste less of it on bureaucracy within the school system. Administrative costs are out of control in US schools, plain and simple.


For what it's worth, it's really challenging to do an accurate international comparison of school funding because each country has different accounting practices for what exactly is "education." For example, in the US, youth sports are run through schools, while in Europe, they tend to be run by municipalities. But the biggest difference is health care. In some countries, health care is accounted to health care. In the US, health care for employees and a substantial amount of health care for students, including services for students with mental and physical disabilities, is accounted to education. On top of that, the US has an especially expensive health care system. Possibly around a quarter of the total budget for US education is actually spent on health care. A good source for this is Bruce Baker of Rutgers University, who blogs at schoolfinance101.

US schools that do uniforms expect the parents to pay for them. When I was in public school, the catholic schools all had the wool pleated skirts and wool slacks as uniforms. I don't think I could have managed to concentrate wearing itchy wool and uncomfortable shoes every day. Today US public schools with uniforms tend to be more cotton twill pants with polos and sneakers.

I am fascinated with all the different uniform designs we see in anime. I think it's interesting the way the uniforms for the scullers in Aria are so similar to the uniforms in Amanchu - obviously the same source artist is involved, but in both they talk about the change from summer to winter, and they're an unusually long, flowing cut for anime.

Do school uniforms in Japan usually also specify street footwear? It would seem unnecessary since they use the indoor shoes while school is in session. But it seems like the anime characters sometimes have shoes that go with the uniforms.
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