Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba


Goto page Previous    Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ZiharkXVI



Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 168
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:54 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
ZiharkXVI wrote:
Apparently you dont need a strong female lead to attract a female audience (contrary to the ridiculous western notion that girls want a bunch of female leads because of representation or some such farce). What you need is a good story - even a basic story told well will draw both male and female audiences.

And yet apparently a good story isn't enough to draw male audiences if the lead is female (or even co-lead in this case). In general - exceptions to the rule and all, so don't @ me with Alita. Smile

Perhaps girls are more willing to watch boy-centric adventure and sports stories since shunning such works would leave them with little to watch in those genres, whereas boys still have a full plate even if they stick exclusively to such stories?


Quite the contrary. Your premise is that boys wont read or watch a story that is good if the main person is a girl and that girls just have to settle for what's available. I dont think that's ever been true. My theory is that done correctly, a story surpasses such restricting ideas as what gender the characters are. Take fairytales for example - regardless of gender of main character, boys and girls both are drawn to these forays into the human experience. Those stories are actually universal. There are of course stories that tailor more towards a man or womans experience, but I've found again, if done correctly they can attract both genders easily. My conclusion is it is not the gender of a character that defines the popularity of a story, but the story itself. Although I will posit an additional theory that isn't as popular...there are experiences in each gender that stories reflect not because of societal pressure, but of deeply psychological experiences that cannot be separated from what it means to be human.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Super_M



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:32 am Reply with quote
Dab1za9 wrote:

Kimetsu seems to have more females fans than males with 6:4 split and i would say the focus on male character is what made it this popular among them.

Source:https://hon-hikidashi.jp/enjoy/84116/
『鬼滅の刃』の読者の男女比は4:6。男女ともに10代・20代の人気が高いです


Yes, I agree that girls like male characters but they focus on male characters because main target audience are boys.
https://imgur.com/a/fmrKSlh
I don't deny that Kimetsu might have big girls fanbase (maybe even majority) but I don't believe everything what I read on internet too. There are so many thing that can skew statistic. For example famous half of gamers are girls which is true if you count mobile games but typical console player will be men.


Last edited by Super_M on Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:57 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8558
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:35 am Reply with quote
ZiharkXVI

Well, people have been saying that Demon Slayer was on the chopping block until the author cut back on Nezuko's role, after which it became very popular. So was it not a good story up until she was literally put to sleep?

I'm also not sure how you think there's never been a dearth of adventure series and movies with strong female leads. Male roles in movies outnumber female roles on the order of 2 to 1 now, and that's after some improvement in the balance (only a few years ago it was more than 4 to 1).* Also see the ridiculous backlash against the recent Star Wars movies and Captain Marvel, solely for having a female lead (legit non-backlash criticisms are not what I'm talking about here. I mean the dudebros trashing CM everywhere they could before it even released, and the stupid video re-tellings with all the female characters edited out of them).

* Of the superhero and sci-fi films in wide release 2009-2018:
14% had female solo leads, compared to 55% with male solo leads and 31% with male/female co-leads.
In the last five years, 53% have had female solo or co-leads, compared to 36% between 2009 and 2013.

So things have improved, but what women accept in their entertainment now has been shaped by decades of not having a lot of other choices that would allow them to be as exclusionary as apparently many guys still are. Also, women are not threatened by seeing men in lead roles, whereas many men seem to feel like they're being replaced when they see women in lead roles or that "settling" for watching women kick ass is somehow emasculating, hence the backlash.

TarsTarkas - yep Xena was great, but remember that a large portion of her appeal was that no one had seen anything like her on tv before. There were female heroines before her, but they tended to be costume mannequins that girl-slapped the villains or used weapons that kept their hands clean. When Xena punched a guy out, you felt like he'd been well and truly punched. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZiharkXVI



Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 168
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:13 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
ZiharkXVI

Well, people have been saying that Demon Slayer was on the chopping block until the author cut back on Nezuko's role, after which it became very popular. So was it not a good story up until she was literally put to sleep?

I'm also not sure how you think there's never been a dearth of adventure series and movies with strong female leads. Male roles in movies outnumber female roles on the order of 2 to 1 now, and that's after some improvement in the balance (only a few years ago it was more than 4 to 1).* Also see the ridiculous backlash against the recent Star Wars movies and Captain Marvel, solely for having a female lead (legit non-backlash criticisms are not what I'm talking about here. I mean the dudebros trashing CM everywhere they could before it even released, and the stupid video re-tellings with all the female characters edited out of them).

* Of the superhero and sci-fi films in wide release 2009-2018:
14% had female solo leads, compared to 55% with male solo leads and 31% with male/female co-leads.
In the last five years, 53% have had female solo or co-leads, compared to 36% between 2009 and 2013.

So things have improved, but what women accept in their entertainment now has been shaped by decades of not having a lot of other choices that would allow them to be as exclusionary as apparently many guys still are. Also, women are not threatened by seeing men in lead roles, whereas many men seem to feel like they're being replaced when they see women in lead roles or that "settling" for watching women kick ass is somehow emasculating, hence the backlash.

TarsTarkas - yep Xena was great, but remember that a large portion of her appeal was that no one had seen anything like her on tv before. There were female heroines before her, but they tended to be costume mannequins that girl-slapped the villains or used weapons that kept their hands clean. When Xena punched a guy out, you felt like he'd been well and truly punched. Very Happy


Couple of points here that are not the thrust of what I'm proposing, but I think you focus too much on one aspect and miss other circumstances. Let me dispense with the recent movies and backlash talk. I dont believe for a second that any personality speaking out against women destroyed the last jedi's popularity. The movie was hot garbage, and the characters sucked, both male and female (I'm a SW fan from the old days, so double the dislike from me). Everything felt forced, and the story was a winding mess that frankly was very disappointing. That's my subjective take, but I think if we are honest here, there are a lot of stories that attempt to cover up their failings by suggesting it was audience bias.

But let's discuss what you just said about Kimetsu, which is fascinating actually. If true that the author had to cut out more Nezuko to increase popularity, then it suggests that more girls (which seem to be a large portion of the audience according to the other post), desired less of the focus on the female character. This might break down in stats, but that seems to result in a strange hypothesis of girls not wanting girls to be the main character.

I'm not making that hypothesis btw, since I cant verify anything you presented. My guess would be that the reason the story may have suffered in the manga is because if you split your focus between characters, there sometimes is a very popular character that people simply gravitate to and want more of. Give the audience more of a popular character, and you will succeed. My hypothesis is that people may have really loved the main character (which I quite agree with - he is an inspiring character).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KarlFranz



Joined: 17 Jun 2019
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:35 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
ZiharkXVI wrote:
Apparently you dont need a strong female lead to attract a female audience (contrary to the ridiculous western notion that girls want a bunch of female leads because of representation or some such farce). What you need is a good story - even a basic story told well will draw both male and female audiences.

And yet apparently a good story isn't enough to draw male audiences if the lead is female (or even co-lead in this case). In general - exceptions to the rule and all, so don't @ me with Alita. Smile

Perhaps girls are more willing to watch boy-centric adventure and sports stories since shunning such works would leave them with little to watch in those genres, whereas boys still have a full plate even if they stick exclusively to such stories?


One of the first manga i ever read was Cardcaptor Sakura and it frankly baffle me how someone could think that boys and girls can only like story that the MC share the same sex with them. People like good story and good characters. Movies like the New Ghostbuster failed not because the cast are female, it failed cause it suck and it isn't funny.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8558
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:37 am Reply with quote
ZiharkXVI wrote:
If true that the author had to cut out more Nezuko to increase popularity, then it suggests that more girls (which seem to be a large portion of the audience according to the other post), desired less of the focus on the female character.

Or that there were not enough girls reading to constitute the totals they were looking for, so they sidelined Nezuko to attract more boys as new readers.

Or maybe they were looking for a specific demographic, period. When Avatar the Last Airbender was airing, Nickelodeon was not at all pleased by the demographics that were making it a hit (their advertisers were after boys, not girls), and Mattel/Fisher Price refused to make action figures of the main female characters because "boys won't buy them." After much protest, I think they finally made one figure of Katara, but still none of Toph.

But basically you're right, without full stats breakdown, we can't know, but there's more than one equally likely hypothesis.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dab1za9



Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 41
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:43 am Reply with quote
Super_M wrote:
Dab1za9 wrote:

Kimetsu seems to have more females fans than males with 6:4 split and i would say the focus on male character is what made it this popular among them.

Source:https://hon-hikidashi.jp/enjoy/84116/
『鬼滅の刃』の読者の男女比は4:6。男女ともに10代・20代の人気が高いです


Yes, I agree that girls like male characters but they focus on male characters because main target audience are boys.
https://imgur.com/a/fmrKSlh
I don't deny that Kimetsu might have big girls fanbase (maybe even majority) but I don't believe everything what I read on internet too. There are so many thing that can skew statistic. For example famous half of gamers are girls which is true if you count mobile games but typical console player will be men.


There is nothing to skew statistics here since it looks on who is buying the manga in different stores and if you went to any Kimetsu event in Japan you will find the majority to be females.

This Line for example was people waiting to receive a postcard for Zenitsu birthday and most of them were females.
https://blog-imgs-129.fc2.com/y/a/r/yarakan/EDhy6JPUcAAGX-Y.jpg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 15938
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:34 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
Also, women are not threatened by seeing men in lead roles, whereas many men seem to feel like they're being replaced when they see women in lead roles or that "settling" for watching women kick ass is somehow emasculating, hence the backlash.

I've run across this kind of attitude on occasion over the years (and not just with anime) and, as a guy, I've never understood it. Ever since growing out of my Conan the Barbarian phase (which occupied most of my teen years), I've typically preferred stories centered around heroines. The strong heroines which emerged in Marvel Comics' team titles during the '80s and the movie Aliens probably had a lot to do with that, and characters like Xena, Buffy, and Ayla (from Jane Auel's Earth Children series) probably helped cement that. I've always found the perspective that isn't mine to be fascinating, I guess, and I certainly don't feel like I'm being replaced, emasculated, or threatened by any of them (or the likes of Karigan from the Green Rider series, for instance). Hence I see people who are as immature sexists.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
KarlFranz



Joined: 17 Jun 2019
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:12 pm Reply with quote
The Drum Demon power is just the worse version of the Biwa Playing demon, no wonder he got kick out of the 12.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Connor Dino



Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:25 am Reply with quote
Train puns to a minimum? Good, I'd hate to see your reviews go off thr rails. It is important to keep things on track. Just keep chugging along and conduct yourself properly. Yes, yes this is your platform and I get it, trains are a broad topic, but don't get tunnel vision. If you get your signals crossed, fans will get steamed. Be warned, people will call you crazy for liking trains, that you have a locomotive.

I will allow you this: Puns about monorails always make for decent one-liners.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8558
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:41 am Reply with quote
^ I'm all aboard with everything you said. Very Happy

I was expecting this episode to be all decompression, but instead it started out with a magnificently realized slaughterhouse. My only tiny quibble is that I have no idea why it's called the Infinite Train. I would've liked a brief word or two of explanation about what the deal is. Looked like an ordinary train, except for not seeming to have any passengers on it.

I also really loved Tanjirou's good-byes. He is a good son, isn't he.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GrilleSechsH



Joined: 30 Jul 2015
Posts: 16
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:45 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
^ I'm all aboard with everything you said. Very Happy

I was expecting this episode to be all decompression, but instead it started out with a magnificently realized slaughterhouse. My only tiny quibble is that I have no idea why it's called the Infinite Train. I would've liked a brief word or two of explanation about what the deal is. Looked like an ordinary train, except for not seeming to have any passengers on it.

I also really loved Tanjirou's good-byes. He is a good son, isn't he.


Lower Moon already told you what his blood art is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8558
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:54 am Reply with quote
GrilleSechsH wrote:
Lower Moon already told you what his blood art is.

I assume you mean the surviving Lower Demon Moon, but a) I don't recall him saying anything about his Blood Art and b) therefore don't know what bearing that has on it being called the Infinite Train, since the Hashira were already calling it that without knowing he was going to be involved.

So perhaps you could impart a bit more wisdom to this ignorant soul?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Super_M



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:35 am Reply with quote
I had pretty good time watching Kimetsu. I hope Kimetsu will be enough popular to adapt all manga. Kimetsu had great animation so I hope ufotable will work at it until the end.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KarlFranz



Joined: 17 Jun 2019
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:52 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
GrilleSechsH wrote:
Lower Moon already told you what his blood art is.

I assume you mean the surviving Lower Demon Moon, but a) I don't recall him saying anything about his Blood Art and b) therefore don't know what bearing that has on it being called the Infinite Train, since the Hashira were already calling it that without knowing he was going to be involved.

So perhaps you could impart a bit more wisdom to this ignorant soul?


It just the name of that particular train. It like the company want to advertise their train to standout so they named it the Infinity Train to sound more special. It like the Titanic name. The name of the arc also have thematic meaning regarding the Lower Moon Blood Art. spoiler[He can put people to sleep and give them dream or nightmare.]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 19 of 20

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group