Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba


Goto page Previous    Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 1090
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 12:41 am Reply with quote
I don't see any problem with the hypnosis.

It sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing to try to do.

And in no way is it even comparable to the slave seals of Shield Hero, and even I don't have an issue with it in the context of the show.

Anyway, I got started with this anime only recently, and it's been a pretty great start for what I imagine is going to be a long running shonen show.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8160
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 1:51 am Reply with quote
steelmirror wrote:
the horrible scratching teeth noise the demon made was really unnerving and annoying

Oh yes! I was going to mention that too. Not just the noise, but the visuals of the rapid saw-blade grinding. Brilliantly done and wickedly effective.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ThatMoonGuy



Joined: 13 Oct 2017
Posts: 100
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 4:31 am Reply with quote
jdnation wrote:
I don't see any problem with the hypnosis.

It sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing to try to do.

And in no way is it even comparable to the slave seals of Shield Hero, and even I don't have an issue with it in the context of the show.

Anyway, I got started with this anime only recently, and it's been a pretty great start for what I imagine is going to be a long running shonen show.


From an ethical standpoint, that's basically manipulating someone's mind against their will. Nezuko would've probably agreed to it but it still shaky ground. It does, however, make sense in context. I just wished Gotouge did it in a slightly different way or just made it so it was done with Nezuko's consent.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yttrbio
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3174
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:01 am Reply with quote
People keep describing things as "reasonable," as if this is some kind of historical documentary. They're killing demons. The author made up all the rules.

The idea that you need a demon-killing sword is completely unnecessary within the context of the show. We've never seen anyone hit a demon with anything else. All that training, and then "oh, also, a sword that works. Congrats!" How is that an improvement to the story? It makes his training, which they spend multiple episodes on, less significant. It makes him less significant.

Similarly, sure, if you had the ability to brainwash your adopted demon daughter into not killing people, you probably would. But why did he need to have that ability? It's a decision that subtracts from the significance of the brother-sister bond that seems like it should be far more central to the story.

Both decisions take what's on the screen and say "that's cool and all, but it's nowhere near as critical as we made it seem. The big changes are happening off screen."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Meongantuk



Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 153
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 8:27 am Reply with quote
We have seen Nezuko kicked a demon's head in episode 2, and the demon was not only alive, but the decapitated head grew hands while the headless body is trying to murder Nezuko until the body got thrown into the cliff. Even then the demon is still alive until the sun killed him. Even in this week's episode we saw Nezuko kicked another demon's head (while Tanjiro can only hit their arms) and the demon still looks healthy.

Just in case anyone thought the water effect is 'real', they're's not. They don't shoot lightning or water. They're visual effect for his sword techiques, the thing that Tanjirou has been training.

It's possible to use those techniques using normal katana, but you won't be able to lethaly damage the demon (like Nezuko's kick above). It's also possible to use the special sword without any technique, but are you sure the demon are nice enough to let someone to decapitate their head?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 2364
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 8:34 am Reply with quote
Meongantuk wrote:
Just in case anyone thought the water effect is 'real', they're's not. They don't shoot lightning or water. They're visual effect for his sword techiques, the thing that Tanjirou has been training.


Pretty sure they're real, this episode he used a waterfall technique that cut the three demons (who were all in different location) limbs in one downward slash.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 2896
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 12:02 pm Reply with quote
steelmirror wrote:
ThatMoonGuy wrote:
Save those things you pointed out, it's literally just taisho era Japan. Which, by the way, is not medieval but really set in between 1910 and 1926.
That's actually good to know, I didn't catch that. Thanks for pointing it out!

I thought it was set in a much earlier period, too, but someone pointed out the telephone poles in episode one. You can see them in the main image at the Crunchyroll page for this show:
https://www.crunchyroll.com/demon-slayer-kimetsu-no-yaiba/episode-1-cruelty-782932
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 644
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 10:54 pm Reply with quote
Scion Drake wrote:
Okay I understand complaints about the hypnosis thing but are you really complaining that he uses a demon-slayer sword to slay demons?

Well, less complaining, more critiquing. Giving him a special sword doesn't make the show terrible, but it makes it weaker than it would be without it. He went through two years of training, and finally passed a test his master thought would be impossible for him, achieving super-sanic speed and the ability to cleave a boulder in twain with a non-magic sword. They could have just stopped there--that level of anime-samurai power seems sufficient for killing demons--but instead the writers gave him not one, but two enchanted demon-killing swords. Besides trying to imitate Attack on Titan, I don't get the purpose of this; it only serves to make his training seem less significant.

Meongantuk wrote:
Just in case anyone thought the water effect is 'real', they're's not. They don't shoot lightning or water. They're visual effect for his sword techiques, the thing that Tanjirou has been training.

Exactly right! So I'm not clear on why you also seem to be arguing that the magic swords are necessary. Sure, the universe is written such that they are, but they could have written it differently, saying only the powerful aura of his sword technique is necessary. If you ignore the exposition about the specially-forged swords, it looks like they did write it that way, and then changed their minds at the last minute.

meiam wrote:
Pretty sure they're real, this episode he used a waterfall technique that cut the three demons (who were all in different location) limbs in one downward slash.

But here, we see the issue I was talking about earlier. Apparently, on some level, the sword techniques themselves aren't sufficiently "real" as an explanation for how he kills demons. So they added visual effects... and some sort of energy emanating from the sword... and then just went all-in and made the sword itself magic. Which keeps out the "but how can he slay demons with just a Regular Sword???" comments, but diminishes the story. (Just having the visual effects, or even chi-slices, would be fine, as long as it's derived from Tanjiro, and not a magic item he received out of nowhere.)

The hypnosis thing has similar problems for similar reasons, and also comes off as a bit demeaning and objectifying, though they probably didn't intend it that way. Ultimately, I'm only bothering to nitpick because it's mostly a good show that I think would be a lot better if they just trimmed out a few things. It's a shonen anime for the older-teen demographic, so maybe that justifies the hand-holdy parts; but I feel like older-teens are smarter than the writers are assuming here, and would like it even more without these distracting bits. Maybe if it starts to follow better storytelling principles later on, we'll find out if I'm right.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Scion Drake



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 350
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 11:08 pm Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:
Scion Drake wrote:
Okay I understand complaints about the hypnosis thing but are you really complaining that he uses a demon-slayer sword to slay demons?

Well, less complaining, more critiquing. Giving him a special sword doesn't make the show terrible, but it makes it weaker than it would be without it. He went through two years of training, and finally passed a test his master thought would be impossible for him, achieving super-sanic speed and the ability to cleave a boulder in twain with a non-magic sword. They could have just stopped there--that level of anime-samurai power seems sufficient for killing demons--but instead the writers gave him not one, but two enchanted demon-killing swords. Besides trying to imitate Attack on Titan, I don't get the purpose of this; it only serves to make his training seem less significant.

Meongantuk wrote:
Just in case anyone thought the water effect is 'real', they're's not. They don't shoot lightning or water. They're visual effect for his sword techiques, the thing that Tanjirou has been training.

Exactly right! So I'm not clear on why you also seem to be arguing that the magic swords are necessary. Sure, the universe is written such that they are, but they could have written it differently, saying only the powerful aura of his sword technique is necessary. If you ignore the exposition about the specially-forged swords, it looks like they did write it that way, and then changed their minds at the last minute.

meiam wrote:
Pretty sure they're real, this episode he used a waterfall technique that cut the three demons (who were all in different location) limbs in one downward slash.

But here, we see the issue I was talking about earlier. Apparently, on some level, the sword techniques themselves aren't sufficiently "real" as an explanation for how he kills demons. So they added visual effects... and some sort of energy emanating from the sword... and then just went all-in and made the sword itself magic. Which keeps out the "but how can he slay demons with just a Regular Sword???" comments, but diminishes the story. (Just having the visual effects, or even chi-slices, would be fine, as long as it's derived from Tanjiro, and not a magic item he received out of nowhere.)

The hypnosis thing has similar problems for similar reasons, and also comes off as a bit demeaning and objectifying, though they probably didn't intend it that way. Ultimately, I'm only bothering to nitpick because it's mostly a good show that I think would be a lot better if they just trimmed out a few things. It's a shonen anime for the older-teen demographic, so maybe that justifies the hand-holdy parts; but I feel like older-teens are smarter than the writers are assuming here, and would like it even more without these distracting bits. Maybe if it starts to follow better storytelling principles later on, we'll find out if I'm right.


You seem to have forgotten or is just ignoring an important detail. The demons have regeneration.

We outright see with the first demon who was outright decapitated by a kick that simply losing their head is not enough. The demon still functioned without his head even growing arms on said head to give himself autonomous movement.

The author has already implemented a reason for why they need a specific weapon. The swords are to make sure that when a demon is decapitated they will die from tha decapitation instead of just shrugging it off.

I don’t see how the sword somehow diminishes his training. It honestly sounds like a nothing critique, like you are actively looking for something to critique regredless of whether it’s actually valid or not.

Also he does not have 2 swords, he only has one. That first sword he uses was just a training sword that he puts down when he gets his own personal weapon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steelmirror



Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 201
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 11:36 pm Reply with quote
Just going from what we've seen, it sure seems to me like the water coming out of the blade is doing something real. I doubt it's meant to be 'real' water, like he's not at risk drowning himself if he uses too many techniques in a small room, but whether its chi or chakra or whatever, there's some magical tangibility that leads to shearing limbs and doing other swordy anime things.

But obviously the most important thing about the sword magic is that it looks really damn cool.

About the sword, I'm generally of the school of thinking that says that you should only add in fantastical elements (or plot elements period) when they serve some sort of purpose. That said, a possibly long-running shonen series is a very different beast than a narratively taught whodunnit or even your average fantasy novel. It makes sense for an author to lay down some hooks or setting elements early on that don't have any immediate clear significance (that the author may even have no clear plan for themselves), but which represent storylines they can pick up and expand upon later. Some of those will end up being forgotten, but some might get a payoff years later. That's how I see the sword, ymmv.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8160
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:23 am Reply with quote
The other thing about the sword is that it's not just any magical sword, it's his magical sword, with special properties it derives from him. The fact that it's black and no one really knows much about black swords because they're rare (but usually didn't bode well for the few users who've had them) should tell you the author has a lot more in mind for this sword than just "extra-magic sword to kill 'em well and truly ded." Right now I'm expecting it to eventually be a tool for more character development for Tanjirou, so that rather than diminishing him or his training, it will end up enhancing him.

And yeah, it looks really damn cool. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 1862
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:42 am Reply with quote
The fact that the magic swords exist makes Urokodaki seem like a bully when he nagged Tanjiro about killing the severed-head demon. Dude just watched the kid pick up a rock that would've not worked and made everyone just more stressed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Yttrbio
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3174
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:39 am Reply with quote
Scion Drake wrote:
You seem to have forgotten or is just ignoring an important detail. The demons have regeneration.

We outright see with the first demon who was outright decapitated by a kick that simply losing their head is not enough. The demon still functioned without his head even growing arms on said head to give himself autonomous movement.

The author has already implemented a reason for why they need a specific weapon. The swords are to make sure that when a demon is decapitated they will die from tha decapitation instead of just shrugging it off.

I don’t see how the sword somehow diminishes his training. It honestly sounds like a nothing critique, like you are actively looking for something to critique regredless of whether it’s actually valid or not.
I think you're the one missing an important detail, or at least an important one to the criticism: The story is fiction. The rules were made up by the author. No one is arguing that, within the context of the show, he didn't need a magic sword. We're saying that making that the context of the show was the mistake. The fact that you can't understand the criticism doesn't mean we're part of some vile conspiracy to depress sales of this show.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lossthief



Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 557
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:49 am Reply with quote
killjoy_the wrote:
The fact that the magic swords exist makes Urokodaki seem like a bully when he nagged Tanjiro about killing the severed-head demon. Dude just watched the kid pick up a rock that would've not worked and made everyone just more stressed.


Well, I wouldn't call it bullying, but it was definitely a means of testing Tanjiro's resolve. Urokodaki needed to see if Tanjiro was willing to kill a demon even if it meant causing some severe suffering, because mercy as a demon slayer is likely to get you killed. That's why Urokodaki thinks to himself that Tanjiro is too kind to make it as a slayer when he hesitates too long
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Meongantuk



Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 153
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:42 am Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:

Meongantuk wrote:
Just in case anyone thought the water effect is 'real', they're's not. They don't shoot lightning or water. They're visual effect for his sword techiques, the thing that Tanjirou has been training.

Exactly right! So I'm not clear on why you also seem to be arguing that the magic swords are necessary. Sure, the universe is written such that they are, but they could have written it differently, saying only the powerful aura of his sword technique is necessary. If you ignore the exposition about the specially-forged swords, it looks like they did write it that way, and then changed their minds at the last minute.


I was arguing how people keep insisting Tanjirou's training became useless the moment he got a magic sword while in reality it is not. The technique is required to match the demons' strength and speed as they're far stronger than normal human and has magic. The hunters are still human.

However the sword is still necessary to kill them, since the only other way (we know) to kill them is exposing the demon to sun (which takes time and they won't wait either).


Last edited by Meongantuk on Wed May 15, 2019 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 5 of 11

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group