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EP. REVIEW: Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba


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Kharthasus



Joined: 15 May 2019
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:41 am Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:

Giving him a special sword doesn't make the show terrible, but it makes it weaker than it would be without it. He went through two years of training, and finally passed a test his master thought would be impossible for him, achieving super-sanic speed and the ability to cleave a boulder in twain with a non-magic sword. They could have just stopped there--that level of anime-samurai power seems sufficient for killing demons--but instead the writers gave him not one, but two enchanted demon-killing swords. Besides trying to imitate Attack on Titan, I don't get the purpose of this; it only serves to make his training seem less significant.


I really don't see how the swords take away from his training and effort. You are speaking as if the MC was given super powerful weapons that give him power no one else has, while in fact it's the opposite. The nichirin swords are standard weapon issued to every single demon hunter. They do not make their users stronger or faster in any way. Otherwise, Sabito, Makomo and the other students of Urokodaki wouldn't have died to the hand demon. The difference with Tanjirou is not his sword (because the other students had the exact same type of sword) but his intense 2 year training. We can safely assume that the other 15 or so kids participating in the Selection used the same demon-killing swords borrowed from their masters. They still got killed by the (supposedly not that powerful) demons.By the way, the sword Tanjirou used to cleave the boulder could very well be the one that he brought to Final Selection, and it would't make any difference in his training at all.

kotomikun wrote:

Exactly right! So I'm not clear on why you also seem to be arguing that the magic swords are necessary. Sure, the universe is written such that they are, but they could have written it differently, saying only the powerful aura of his sword technique is necessary. If you ignore the exposition about the specially-forged swords, it looks like they did write it that way, and then changed their minds at the last minute.


Yttrbio wrote:

I think you're the one missing an important detail, or at least an important one to the criticism: The story is fiction. The rules were made up by the author. No one is arguing that, within the context of the show, he didn't need a magic sword. We're saying that making that the context of the show was the mistake. The fact that you can't understand the criticism doesn't mean we're part of some vile conspiracy to depress sales of this show.


The swords are only magical in the sense that they can negate the demon's regeneration ability, if and only if the head is cut off. The weapons do not give the demon hunters any real advantage, just partially offset their enemies' utterly unfair advantage. If you get rid of the swords then there will be no realistic way to kill the demons. You can't expect every demon is weak enough to be restrained until dawn breaks. Sure, there are some ways you can rewrite the universe to make it work, such as:

1. Remove the demons' regeneration ability and make them susceptible to mortal wound just like human. The demons are now suddenly much less threatening and horrifying
2. Give the demon hunter literal magic in order to have a fighting chance against demons
3. The demon hunters make plans to lure demon into being exposed to sunlight, or delay the fight until dawn, which will make the demons extremely stupid to fall for the ruse every single time.

I personally think the current setup in perfect. The demon hunters has a slim chance to defeat their enemies, but it's still an uphill battle with the demons holding all the advantages. It's a struggle between immortal creatures who could use literal magic and can regrow almost every part of their bodies and mere humans who can only use their sword skills to behead enemies.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:54 am Reply with quote
Kharthasus wrote:

1. Remove the demons' regeneration ability and make them susceptible to mortal wound just like human. The demons are now suddenly much less threatening and horrifying
2. Give the demon hunter literal magic in order to have a fighting chance against demons
3. The demon hunters make plans to lure demon into being exposed to sunlight, or delay the fight until dawn, which will make the demons extremely stupid to fall for the ruse every single time.


Maybe it's just me, but #3 is by far, faaaaaaar the more interesting version. There's already millions of work where "hit the monster really hard with your weapon" is the solution but very few where the character have to fight smart. And again, this is a work of fiction, there's no hard rule that demon only weakness is sunlight, they could have instead made the world where every demon have a weakness and MC job would have been to figure out what that weakness is.

I also don't see how 1 make them any less threatening, they still have super human ability/magic. In fact there's an easy solution for 1, don't give the demon hunter super human ability.
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 1100
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:49 pm Reply with quote
ThatMoonGuy wrote:
From an ethical standpoint, that's basically manipulating someone's mind against their will. Nezuko would've probably agreed to it but it still shaky ground. It does, however, make sense in context. I just wished Gotouge did it in a slightly different way or just made it so it was done with Nezuko's consent.


Well sure, under normal circumstances it'd be unethical, but we're talking about a demon possessed girl here that usually means she's susceptible to killing people, so as you also agree, within the context of this it's entirely justifiable to try. Particularly given that Nezuko's case is unprecedented, and she needs to be kept under control, or else she would have to be killed out of necessity, so anything and everything would help until she has recovered, if possible.


Yttrbio wrote:
Similarly, sure, if you had the ability to brainwash your adopted demon daughter into not killing people, you probably would. But why did he need to have that ability? It's a decision that subtracts from the significance of the brother-sister bond that seems like it should be far more central to the story.

Both decisions take what's on the screen and say "that's cool and all, but it's nowhere near as critical as we made it seem. The big changes are happening off screen."


Not necessarily, if anything it does play upon the strength of family bonds. And it's possible that the writing may build upon this later in interesting ways. It was most likely presented the way it is in a quick flashback to keep the show's pace quick and interesting, so small information like that can just be communicated quickly than in some earlier lengthier scene that would necessitate taking the focus away from bro's training and testing to go back to Nezuko just sleeping. It's also good that the writing explores various potential solutions like this to ground the world and shows that things are more thought-out in terms of possibilities. So it's a good sign in my book, versus some other lazier shows where fans would naturally then ask, "Why didn't they just try this or that?"

The hypnotism angle can also play a part in the whole idea of exorcisms and other general mysticism or even psychology that surrounds the whole demons thing. So it makes sense that a demon slayer would perhaps take up a skill like that which could have plenty of applications.
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*Miharu*



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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 5:04 pm Reply with quote
I don’t understand how anybody who have been watching the series up until now, can conclude that Tanjirou´s training was useless or that demon slaying is about magic swords and brute force.

We have been told and shown numerous times throughout the series that the power behind Tanjirou´s sword slashes is the Water Breath techniques he mastered during his training.

The Breath of Water Style is told to increase the amount of oxygen in one's blood through a controlled breathing pattern, enabling the user to increase one´s strength and agility to equal a demon's. It can also be used to heal the body faster.

Breaths require a lot of stigma and lung capacity, you also need to be able to keep calm doing a tight situation or your breath pattern will be broken.

The first part of Tanjirou´s training, included learning the basics in how to wield a katana, physical training designed to make him physically stronger and increase his sense of smell and lung capacity, we also saw him undergo meditation training and learning how to take deep breaths.

Since Urokodaki wasn't really interested in sending Tanjirou off to the Final Selection, he only taught him the basics behind the Breath of Water forms, if the spirits of Makomo and Sabito hadn't taken it upon themselves to teach Tanjirou the last steps, Tanjirou would never have been able to cut the boulder, since It was through his training with them, that Tanjirou mastered the Total Concentration Breath and gained the ability to smell an opening tread which guides him to the point where a cut is most effective.

The special Nichirin swords were introduced before Tanjirou even started his training. The only magic part about them is the color change and them being made of special steel containing absorbed sunlight. The color change doesn't give the swords any special abilities, it simply tells the breach affinity of the user.

Now I can understand people being confused about whatever the water effects are meant to be real or not.The manga does make it more clear that they are merely meant as a cool effect and not meant to be taken literally.

The Water Breach forms enables Tanjiro to make slashes and movements which follows the forms of different water constellations. The Waterfall Form used against the swamp demon is a combo of slashes, not waterfalls literally emerging trough his sword.

Even if you slept through all the exposition, it is still pretty clear that Tanjirou’s strength, his movements and ability to kill demons are derived from the Breath techniques, since we get to experience exactly how the Water Breath works doing the Final Selection.

Literally everything Tanjirou used during the Final Selection was gained through his training, basic knowledge about how to use a katana, a physical stronger body, a stronger sense of smell, the techniques, enabling him to gain the strength and agility of a demon, the forms used to make strong slashes, the ability to smell emotions and and to smell an opening tread.

Using breach technics require wits, since you need to think off the best way to unleash and combine forms, you also need to determine when to a use a specific form, Tanjirou is also shown to be be using knowledge and logic to determine what kind of demon he’s facing and the best way to deal with it.

Tanjirou’s sense of smell may give him an advantage against the swamp demon that a normal demon slayer wouldn't have, but Tanjirou still has to fight a demon while protecting two people, and since there's a chance that he may hit the boy with the girl, he can't unleash his attacks at full strength, meaning that he does have to fight smart, even more so since he can't just kill the demon, if he want answers.

Killing a demon isn't just about hitting them hard, and it's way too early to conclude that all demon’s weak points are just going to be in plain sight, since we already know that advanced demons have the ability to change their body and use a form of blood magic.

People are entitled to think of the use of Breaths as some kind of magic, but the ability to use them does not magically appear, you need to undergo special training.
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Alternative Ice



Joined: 07 Jul 2016
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:48 pm Reply with quote
I think the 'swords are made out of a special rare metal' plot point serves as a decent enough explanation for why the Demon Hunter Corps don't just make a million swords and hand them out like candy so normal people will have a better chance against the demons.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:33 am Reply with quote
Alternative Ice wrote:
I think the 'swords are made out of a special rare metal' plot point serves as a decent enough explanation for why the Demon Hunter Corps don't just make a million swords and hand them out like candy so normal people will have a better chance against the demons.


This is not a particularly large problem, weapon are expensive to produce and distributing a sword to everyone in the country would be obscenely expensive even if they were just regular sword.

And if you want to consider that approach it makes far sense that the water breathing technique aren't taught to everyone, its a teaching so it's free to reproduce and would also be extremely useful for the general public, not only to protect themselves against demon but also in regular life which would lead to a huge increase in productivity of farming/industry/construction and such.
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steelmirror



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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 12:15 am Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
And if you want to consider that approach it makes far sense that the water breathing technique aren't taught to everyone, its a teaching so it's free to reproduce and would also be extremely useful for the general public, not only to protect themselves against demon but also in regular life which would lead to a huge increase in productivity of farming/industry/construction and such.
I don't know, that one is pretty easy to justify. Not everyone learns demon slaying techniques for the same reason that not everybody learns surgery, even though it would be handy. It takes a lot of time, a lot of dedication, and a measure of talent to learn that skill, and you just aren't realistically going to be able to have a population full of surgeons/demon slayers.

Reading that brick of explanation by @*Miharu* though, man I didn't know anything about half that stuff. Maybe I did sleep through the exposition, but do we really need breathing techniques, and magic swords, and demon magic, and smelling powers (which somehow lead to seeing strings that then leads to cutting people good? I'm no swordsman, but that seems like a lot of mixed metaphors), and water summoning (that isnt actually water or summoning), AND 'breach affinitites' whatever the heck that is....

Thank goodness actually watching a fight scene in this show isn't anywhere near as impenetrable as trying to understand its magic systems. I thought Naruto had some loosey goosey magic, this show hasn't even been on for 8 episodes and it has like 5 magic systems.
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Meongantuk



Joined: 03 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 4:56 am Reply with quote
[quote="steelmirror"]
meiam wrote:


Reading that brick of explanation by @*Miharu* though, man I didn't know anything about half that stuff. Maybe I did sleep through the exposition, but do we really need breathing techniques, and magic swords, and demon magic, and smelling powers (which somehow lead to seeing strings that then leads to cutting people good? I'm no swordsman, but that seems like a lot of mixed metaphors), and water summoning (that isnt actually water or summoning), AND 'breach affinitites' whatever the heck that is....

Thank goodness actually watching a fight scene in this show isn't anywhere near as impenetrable as trying to understand its magic systems. I thought Naruto had some loosey goosey magic, this show hasn't even been on for 8 episodes and it has like 5 magic systems.


The system is pretty easy to understand if you watches martial arts/sports anime. Kimetsu don't exactly put anything new.
A lot of real life sports (like running or swimming). also trains you how to regulate your breathing, so you can last longer+move faster. Fancy swordsmanship styles are also staple to samurai/martial arts themed works even to the ones that don't have actual magic like Vagabond or Rurouni Kenshin.

Anyway Kimetsu's magic system is basically:
On Demons:
- Demon by default has severe weakness to sunlight. They turn into dust if exposed to sunlight, like vampire.
- In exchange for their weakness, they have almost endless, regeneration, stronger, and faster than human.
- Stronger demons also has magic (how it manifest varies).

On Hunters:
- Hunters by default are human being. .
- They trained breath techniques and swordsmanship styles (those fancy moves) to match demon's advantages above.
- Tanjiro and Urokodaki's smell is just their natural talent. It's like your usual anime "heightened battle instinct". Other hunters has their own way to do what they did.
- But since demons have endless regeneration, they need a weapon that can deliver a lethal blow. That's where the sword come in.
- Do the sword carries magic? No. It's just made from material that absorb sunlight. If used against human, it's pretty much just a normal sword.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Team GurrenTeam Gurren


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:30 am Reply with quote
The swords are definitely magical. However, their magic seems to be rather low key in that it limits a demon's ability to regenerate. Probably this is due to how the blade absorbs sunlight. Note that if something is black, it means that the entire spectrum of visible light is being absorbed by the blade.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that the blades have other properties as well.
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crosswithyou



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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:21 pm Reply with quote
Seki Toshihiko is PERFECT as Muzan. That is all.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 10:48 pm Reply with quote
steelmirror wrote:
meiam wrote:
And if you want to consider that approach it makes far sense that the water breathing technique aren't taught to everyone, its a teaching so it's free to reproduce and would also be extremely useful for the general public, not only to protect themselves against demon but also in regular life which would lead to a huge increase in productivity of farming/industry/construction and such.
I don't know, that one is pretty easy to justify. Not everyone learns demon slaying techniques for the same reason that not everybody learns surgery, even though it would be handy. It takes a lot of time, a lot of dedication, and a measure of talent to learn that skill, and you just aren't realistically going to be able to have a population full of surgeons/demon slayers.


Why would a farmer learn surgery? How would that be useful for him in his day to day life? It's useful to have some surgeon around for emergency but there's no reason for the entire population to learn how to use it.

Super strength though? In a society where practically the entire population is doing some form of physically demanding job (something like 80-90% of people are farmer), yeah that'd be incredibly useful. The cost/reward ratio of it would be far higher than anything else and would be quickly implemented across entire nation, if for no reason than if one nation has a population with plenty of super strength individual and the neighboring nation doesn't it's pretty obvious how that would end up, any nation that wouldn't mass teach it would be swallowed by those who would.
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jenthehen



Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 11:22 pm Reply with quote
This show has been very good, but I’m really struggling with the fact that women seem to be decorative, shallow side pieces to man pain.
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 12:04 am Reply with quote
crosswithyou wrote:
Seki Toshihiko is PERFECT as Muzan. That is all.

He always is. Smile

Did I miss why Tanjirou's scar changed so dramatically after the testing? It's not just darker, it's bigger and more chaotic. It looks like a birthmark now.

Would've been nice if he'd stuck around long enough to let people know Kazumi was telling the truth. Now he looks even more suspicious, with some of her things in his possession.

Finally, since Nezuko's been hypnotoaded, why can't they take her bit out now? It's not like she can't take it off herself, but she seems to not be doing that since others apparently want her to keep it on. You'd think people in the cities might question why he's dragging around a girl with a gag, just a little... Like the noodle guy - hell, just for business' sake, you'd think he'd ask why Tanjirou wasn't buying a bowl for his companion too, or at least sharing with her. At least replace it with something less obvious, like a lower face mask to hide it.
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kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 1:12 am Reply with quote
Kharthasus wrote:
You are speaking as if the MC was given super powerful weapons that give him power no one else has, while in fact it's the opposite. The nichirin swords are standard weapon issued to every single demon hunter.


Right--to every single demon hunter. But not to anyone else. Would probably be helpful to let other people use them, too, wouldn't it?

I don't want to belabor this point endlessly, so just to sum it up: Yes, according to what we've been told, you need these swords to kill demons because the enchanted blade interrupts their life force or whatever. They did not have to write it that way, and doing so was a strange choice after all the intense training with specific attention to swinging one's sword at exactly the right spot using a rigorously refined technique. The training arc leads us to believe that only elite warriors have the skills necessary to kill demons, and throwing in the magic swords after that is confusing, making it seem like the writers backpedaled on their original plan to make killing demons entirely skill-based. That's all. (Or at least it would be, until the Nezuko-got-hypnotized thing came along, establishing a pattern.)

Anyway... Episode 7 didn't have any of those sorts of gaffes, so it's a step up for that reason, if nothing else. Apparently all that "water breathing" in Tanjiro's attacks wasn't just for show, and Nezuko got to do somewhat more than just a single kick this time. Though she still hasn't really developed beyond being Tanjiro's attack-zombie. The twist with Muzan appearing early and having a family was interesting, though it does raise some questions (did his wife and child and everyone else around them not notice him claw that guy in the neck? does he make excuses for not going out in the daytime, or does he not have that weakness?). But then, if it didn't raise questions, it wouldn't be a good cliffhanger.
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Dardre



Joined: 16 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 4:11 am Reply with quote
meiam wrote:

Super strength though? In a society where practically the entire population is doing some form of physically demanding job (something like 80-90% of people are farmer), yeah that'd be incredibly useful. The cost/reward ratio of it would be far higher than anything else and would be quickly implemented across entire nation, if for no reason than if one nation has a population with plenty of super strength individual and the neighboring nation doesn't it's pretty obvious how that would end up, any nation that wouldn't mass teach it would be swallowed by those who would.


Because it took 2 years of non-stop training and a pair of ghosts for Tanjiru to learn it, and he still almost failed; in fact, Sakonji technically failed to teach him the technique. It's also explicitly stated that the super strength only lasts a few minutes at most; if I recall correctly, Sakonji even mentions that the technique can exhaust the user quickly. A technique that gives super strength and speed, only lasts a few minutes, and can leave the user exhausted if used too much would be utterly useless to farmer. A farmer needs stamina more than strength or speed, after all.
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