×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
Answerman - Why Did Anime Companies Start Including "Clean" Openings And Endings?


Goto page Previous  1, 2

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
CheechMonger



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 40
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 12:16 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Western publishers don't care as much about bonus features as they used to (and often, they're not allowed to include stuff that was made for the Japanese release).


What sort of things might fall into this category of features not included from a Japanese release and why wouldn't western publishers be allowed to include them (copyright or some limited licensing agreement I could suppose, but would that be the only reason?)?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 821
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 2:12 pm Reply with quote
CheechMonger wrote:

What sort of things might fall into this category of features not included from a Japanese release and why wouldn't western publishers be allowed to include them (copyright or some limited licensing agreement I could suppose, but would that be the only reason?)?


It comes down to the licensing agreement. Usually the licensing agreement states that the licensee is allowed to use the show itself--the movie or the episodes--only. Other things like commercials, preview videos, poster art, music videos, and so on are not allowed to be used unless they are specifically called out in the license agreement. In other words, unless the license agreement specifically says that the licensee has the rights to X, then they can't use it.

These are things I've personally seen present with Japanese releases which were absent from domestic ones. I'm sure there are examples of other things too:
On the disc itself: music videos, commercials and preview videos for the show itself, the same for other shows, artists commentary and "behind-the-scenes" information, director's commentary, still frames of concept art, video clips of VA interviews, or perhaps just the VAs being cute, etc., "making of" clips, leica reels.

Physical objects packaged with the disc:
Liner notes, storyboards, posters, music CDs, stickers, calendars, various cardboard fold-ups, doorknob hangers, paper doll kits, pencil boards, plushies, books/pamphlets of various sizes, plastic "clear files", stationary, small toys and trinkets. Manga. Audio dramas. Pins, batches, and patches. Boxes which you could use to form a "box set" once you bought all the discs to a given show, garage kits, figures (ranging from very simple to very fancy/expensive), and probably more. It was also common for there to be mail-in forms where you could send in proof-of-purchases for all the volumes in a series and then get a rare collector's item. This might have been a fancy box for the set, limited-edition discs (with music videos, bonus content, director/staff/VA interviews), audio CDs, etc.

Generally speaking, Japanese physical releases were a lot more forthcoming with Omake stuff than what I have seen in Domestic anime releases. Yes, we can often buy fancy DVD or BD box sets that come with extras, but in many cases you got free stuff packaged with a standard Japanese LD/DVD/BD without paying extra for it. Music CDs often came with extras too. I would assume VHS tapes did too but I am not sure. Most of the handful of anime-related vinyl records I own did.

And sometimes it can get fairly exotic. One thing I think is really cool is that I've seen a handful of LDs which they had molded with colored plastic instead of just the usual clear/sliver color. I have about 400 LDs, and only 6 are colored like this: All 5 OVA volumes of Galaxy Fraulein Yuna are pink on the top side and the disc itself has art directly printed on it, and the final disc in the Tenchi Muyo thanks edition box set is a vibrant gold color, also with art on one side. If I had to guess there are probably other examples of this but those are the only ones I am aware of.

Then again, Japanese releases were/are very costly, so one would hope that one gets more for their money.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
King Pickle the Wise



Joined: 21 Apr 2019
Posts: 37
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 4:01 pm Reply with quote
AkumaChef wrote:
Physical objects packaged with the disc:
Liner notes, storyboards, posters, music CDs, stickers, calendars, various cardboard fold-ups, doorknob hangers, paper doll kits, pencil boards, plushies, books/pamphlets of various sizes, plastic "clear files", stationary, small toys and trinkets. Manga. Audio dramas. Pins, batches, and patches. Boxes which you could use to form a "box set" once you bought all the discs to a given show, garage kits, figures (ranging from very simple to very fancy/expensive), and probably more. It was also common for there to be mail-in forms where you could send in proof-of-purchases for all the volumes in a series and then get a rare collector's item. This might have been a fancy box for the set, limited-edition discs (with music videos, bonus content, director/staff/VA interviews), audio CDs, etc.

Generally speaking, Japanese physical releases were a lot more forthcoming with Omake stuff than what I have seen in Domestic anime releases. Yes, we can often buy fancy DVD or BD box sets that come with extras, but in many cases you got free stuff packaged with a standard Japanese LD/DVD/BD without paying extra for it. Music CDs often came with extras too. I would assume VHS tapes did too but I am not sure. Most of the handful of anime-related vinyl records I own did.

And sometimes it can get fairly exotic. One thing I think is really cool is that I've seen a handful of LDs which they had molded with colored plastic instead of just the usual clear/sliver color. I have about 400 LDs, and only 6 are colored like this: All 5 OVA volumes of Galaxy Fraulein Yuna are pink on the top side and the disc itself has art directly printed on it, and the final disc in the Tenchi Muyo thanks edition box set is a vibrant gold color, also with art on one side. If I had to guess there are probably other examples of this but those are the only ones I am aware of.

Then again, Japanese releases were/are very costly, so one would hope that one gets more for their money.


I have a few imported BDs myself. All the ones I happened to have come in chipboard boxsets for each individual volume, which is pretty nice. One series, Occult Academy, has another disk in the boxsets which is an audio CD with music and commentary. Another series, Sket Dance, has a second disk which contains an audio drama/commentary done in-character by the otaku/nerd character from the show. I also picked up a Pocket Monsters set that contained ALL the opening and ending themes done in creditless versions, which was a great buy if you love the OST from the show.

I gotta say, I love Japanese disks. They look amazing on your shelf. But they can be pretty pricey, so I only pick up my favorite shows.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6867
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:18 pm Reply with quote
For some shows, things like episode titles were apparently included in the "with credits" version, so we'd sometimes see companies add the titles back in with the DVD subtitles, if they didn't do their own hardcoded titles. Though with Media-Blasters' Ladies vs. Butlers DVD release, the episode titles are completely gone -- not translated, not even present in Japanese.

CheechMonger wrote:
What sort of things might fall into this category of features not included from a Japanese release and why wouldn't western publishers be allowed to include them (copyright or some limited licensing agreement I could suppose, but would that be the only reason?)?
Some of the most visible stuff that doesn't make it over here includes shorts/omakes (Fruits/Eden of Grisaia, Senran Kagura, Prisma Illya K-On!, many others...), in-universe "show within a show" extras (Detective KunKun in Rozen Maiden, Tenchuu Girls in Black Bullet), picture dramas (Familiar of Zero 3, Qwaser of Stigmata, Ben-tou...), or short sidestory extra episodes (Hyakko, Celestial Method, D-Frag, Scientific Railgun...). One theory is that the Japanese side either completely disallows overseas distributors from using them, or demands a price so high that it's cost-prohibitive, all in the name of preventing reverse importation.

And episodes that're packaged with Japanese manga/LN releases are nearly always off the table entirely, since the licensors want to keep them so scarce that readers feel compelled to pre-order expensive limited editions. So anyone wanting to legally watch, for instance, Ayana Taketatsu's voice-acting debut, is out of luck.

This thread tracks many of the extras that never made it over to North America, as well as extras that were in initial releases, but vanished in subsequent repackagings and license transfers.

This past Answerman column may also be of interest.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
GeorgH



Joined: 15 Mar 2016
Posts: 63
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 5:47 am Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
And episodes that're packaged with Japanese manga/LN releases are nearly always off the table entirely, since the licensors want to keep them so scarce that readers feel compelled to pre-order expensive limited editions.

That's only partly true: Some european (e.g. german) releases include these, even in cases they are missing in the US-releases.
e.g. To Love Ru, Bikini Warriors (bundled with figures in Japan), Snow White with the Red Hair, Sankarea

It may be caused by the different Region-coding, or by the fact that at least sometimes the license-contract was sealed before the american publisher was even aware that an OAD episode was even planned (European publishers usually close their license-agreements later). Also the average price per episode is much higher in Germany than the US.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AmpersandsUnited



Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 633
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 5:56 am Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
And episodes that're packaged with Japanese manga/LN releases are nearly always off the table entirely, since the licensors want to keep them so scarce that readers feel compelled to pre-order expensive limited editions. So anyone wanting to legally watch, for instance, Ayana Taketatsu's voice-acting debut, is out of luck.


Those Fairy Tail OVA episodes bundled with the manga volumes were never released here nor officially subbed. There are still a number of Dragonball OVAs that have never been released here, as well as the One Piece OVAs and first seven moviess. So even the mainstream series are still missing quite a bit of content in the American market. I think Naruto is the only one who's had all the OVAs and Movies officially released here, but maybe I'm forgetting one or two they skipped.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GeorgH



Joined: 15 Mar 2016
Posts: 63
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 6:09 am Reply with quote
AmpersandsUnited wrote:
There are still a number of Dragonball OVAs that have never been released here, as well as the One Piece OVAs and first seven moviess. So even the mainstream series are still missing quite a bit of content in the American market.

One Piece is kinda special: All movies have been released in several territories in Europe, including the UK!
(Those not previously dubbed by Funimation only got sub-only DVDs in UK)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 821
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 8:42 am Reply with quote
To add, I suspect that censorship may sometimes play a role with differing content too--not necessarily with clean OP/ED, but with other sorts of extra content.

My copy of Outlaw Star on LD, and my friend's copy on Japanese DVD, both have a short preview/teaser video at the beginning of the first volume, before the first episode even starts. That preview video appears to have been made well before the show itself was animated since the art style is slightly different and it contains a great deal more nudity than the show itself did. I know that clip was entirely absent from the original US DVD release, and I suspect the nudity is why. It was certainly not broadcast on cable that way either.

I just recalled an excellent example of how the legal licensing can affect releases too: Evangelion. Evangelion was infamous for the poor animation quality and the massive amount of still frames, etc, during some of its later TV episodes. When the physical media was released in Japan these episodes were redone with new animation, better timing of the audio, etc. In fact, you couldn't even buy the "as broadcast" TV eps in Japan. However, the first ADV domestic release contained only the "as broadcast" version and did NOT have those improvements. Apparently this is because ADV's license extended only to the "broadcast versions" of the TV eps and they would have had to re-negotiate a new contract for the updated versions. I understand that did happen for later domestic releases.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AmpersandsUnited



Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 633
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 8:34 pm Reply with quote
AkumaChef wrote:
I just recalled an excellent example of how the legal licensing can affect releases too: Evangelion. Evangelion was infamous for the poor animation quality and the massive amount of still frames, etc, during some of its later TV episodes. When the physical media was released in Japan these episodes were redone with new animation, better timing of the audio, etc. In fact, you couldn't even buy the "as broadcast" TV eps in Japan. However, the first ADV domestic release contained only the "as broadcast" version and did NOT have those improvements. Apparently this is because ADV's license extended only to the "broadcast versions" of the TV eps and they would have had to re-negotiate a new contract for the updated versions. I understand that did happen for later domestic releases.


That has happened quite a lot over the years. A lot of American releases didn't include the changes made to the Japanese home video release because the rights were only for the broadcast version. It's also been a problem with Crunchyroll and other streaming services where they never go back and update their library with the uncensored or improved versions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NJ_



Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 3004
Location: Wallington, NJ
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 6:58 am Reply with quote
GeorgH wrote:
One Piece is kinda special: All movies have been released in several territories in Europe, including the UK!
(Those not previously dubbed by Funimation only got sub-only DVDs in UK)


We can also add Dragon Ball to this since there was a recent bilingual Blu-ray release in France of Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans & Episode of Bardock, two OVAs that were previously released subtitled-only as video game features in Raging Blast 2 & DBZ for Kinect.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 821
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 9:17 am Reply with quote
AmpersandsUnited wrote:

That has happened quite a lot over the years. A lot of American releases didn't include the changes made to the Japanese home video release because the rights were only for the broadcast version. It's also been a problem with Crunchyroll and other streaming services where they never go back and update their library with the uncensored or improved versions.


Yeah, agreed. I didn't mean to imply that Eva was the only example, just a really well known one. You're right that it happend to lots of shows. (yet another reason why I prefer buying Japanese releases).

As for Crunchyroll, et al, I wish they would update their catalogs with the improved versions as they become available. That said, I understand why they don't. I suspect that most people watch the show once, either while it's simulcast or shortly thereafter, and then they don't bother to watch it again. The extra expense to license the updated content probably isn't a sound business decision for them. Still, it would be nice to see the improvements and uncensored scenes when I go back and re-watch shows that I enjoyed but not enough to buy physical copies of.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2173
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:16 am Reply with quote
I'm always disappointed when the only "bonus" video content is a the dagum OP/ED that's already attached to every frickin episode. Especially when the JP version actually has real legit bonus video content of the sort you'd expect when a DVD/BD says it has bonus content.

I used to do video editing and shooting for an organization that basically made behind the scenes style shows. Knowing what that type of thing costs to make and the relative ease and quick turn around that it can be produced in, it's hard for me to imagine the licensing just being through the roof or that they just refuse to ever sell this stuff to Americans (or honestly why US companies don't pay someone $1k-$2k to film behind the scenes stuff for their end of the process and put that out as a bonus feature).

The whole thing is weird to me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group