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INTEREST: Police Are Irritated by Japanese Public's 'Flippant' Reaction to Pierre Taki's Drug Crime


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AmpersandsUnited



Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 201
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 7:17 am Reply with quote
capt_bunny wrote:
Not to mention, a lot of countries think weed is the worst thing when tobacco and alcohol is just as bad yet we still have it around. A lot of people in Japan are ignorant about not knowing about certain things. I don't blame them since they should have people know better there who are the higher ups.


I think Japan is very aware of how bad drugs can be which is precisely why they are so harsh on it. The issue is like BadNewsBlues mentioned. Taking away existing substances like alcohol is not very effective. Tobacco and alcohol are grandfathered into human society dating back thousands of years. However, the alternative should not be to introduce new drugs into your society simply because you already allow some. That would just be purposely negligent and harmful to your community.

And it's not as if there hasn't been regulations on smoking and drinking over the years, dictating where you can and can't consume alcohol or smoke cigarettes. Many places of business ban smoking in Japan, and tobacco use has see a massive decline every year in Japan, presumably as the older generation dies off and younger generations not taking up the habit to begin with. But I imagine that's true for every society. The more you become educated on drugs and how harmful they are, the less likely the next generation will be to start doing them to begin with. Ignorance is what leads to drug use. Knowledge is what prevents it.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:29 pm Reply with quote
Chrono1000 wrote:

Agreed, and it is ironic when people who live in countries with much higher crime rates lecture Japan on how they need to change their laws.


The U.S. has a high rate of crime when it comes to things like gun violence no one's complaining about Japan's stance on guns being that Japan is one of the few countries where everyone isn't running around with legally obtained firearms and murdering scores of people in public. Use of and selling of drugs has very little to do with that, yet a country like Japan treats drug use and even simple possession as something worthy of rendering someone persona non grata which is pretty excessive.

Chrono1000 wrote:

The Japanese police are wasting their time trying with the pro-drug people on twitter but they have reason for their concern. The general impression of drugs is an important factor in whether children start taking them


Given most children in some developed countries will likely already be on prescribed medication before they turn 15 it is bizarre reasoning to say the least. Especially when even that can be harder for children to get hold of especially if Japan has the same BS red tape with insurance providers that the U.S. has.

So what chance would most kids have in getting their hands on recreational drugs?
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ATastySub



Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 140
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 9:59 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Chrono1000 wrote:

Agreed, and it is ironic when people who live in countries with much higher crime rates lecture Japan on how they need to change their laws.


The U.S. has a high rate of crime when it comes to things like gun violence no one's complaining about Japan's stance on guns being that Japan is one of the few countries where everyone isn't running around with legally obtained firearms and murdering scores of people in public. Use of and selling of drugs has very little to do with that, yet a country like Japan treats drug use and even simple possession as something worthy of rendering someone persona non grata which is pretty excessive.


This line of thinking also completely misses the point of crime rates. You know what leads to very low crime rates? Ignoring or stigmatizing reporting crimes. You see this a lot in cases like sexual assault, where places that actually try to stop it end up with higher reported cases of sexual assault/rape/etc and instead of realizing this means how much it's going unreported elsewhere you find opportunists claiming the higher rate means any efforts aren't working. That's largely the case here too. Japan is not a magical crime free land. Anyone that tries to argue otherwise is delusional at best and straight up disingenuous at worst.
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El Hermano



Joined: 24 Feb 2019
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Location: Texas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:33 pm Reply with quote
ATastySub wrote:
Japan is not a magical crime free land. Anyone that tries to argue otherwise is delusional at best and straight up disingenuous at worst.


Nobody ever said Japan was "crime free". We're saying Japan has much less crime than America and other western countries do and is a much safer country, which is objectively 100% true. America has 19 times more murders per capita than Japan does.
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jl07045



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1464
Location: Riga, Latvia
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 1:29 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:

The U.S. has a high rate of crime when it comes to things like gun violence no one's complaining about Japan's stance on guns [..]. Use of and selling of drugs has very little to do with that.


I'm not sure how to even respond to this lol.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:55 am Reply with quote
jl07045 wrote:

I'm not sure how to even respond to this lol.


Yes I know that you have drug dealers that may decide to murder other drug dealers (or unintentionally murder the wrong person) or people who while high on drugs may get behind the wheel of a car and cause an accident if they're not pulled over before then.

But you don't need to be a drug dealer or be using drugs to callously murder or injure someone in a shooting or an auto accident.
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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:59 am Reply with quote
Chrono1000 wrote:
The Japanese police are wasting their time trying with the pro-drug people on twitter but they have reason for their concern.

"Pro drug people on Twitter"? He was arrested, served time, and apologized publicly. No one is claiming that his fans are supporting him in a continued drug habit, just that he shouldn't be considered a social pariah after coming clean. He's not writing tweets about how great drugs are ("Hey, kids! Try this at home!"), he's smiling in a picture.
He's already lost his career, what good would a life sentence do for Japanese society?

Now, as for the United States, with a bigger drug problem, thousands of struggling addicts, and many lives lost to overdose, it's worth noting that decriminalization and harm reduction measure actually work a hell of a lot better than a "war on drugs." If we truly believed the psychological research that shows that addiction is a mental health issue (and one that mostly leads to self-harm), and not a criminal act, we could save lives. That doesn't mean the drugs are considered legal and available, or that selling drugs is legal--- decriminalization just means a society doesn't punish people harshly for merely *using* drugs/being addicted.

But don't take my word for it, take Portugal's---they tried it and it worked:
https://filtermag.org/2019/02/28/portugal-decriminalization-drug-use-explained/amp/

I want to be clear that I am not suggesting this for Japan, where illegal drug use isn't already a problem. But Americans (especially those touched by addiction) would do well to learn from Portugal's example.
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Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 8:17 am Reply with quote
Sakurafire_ wrote:
valoon wrote:
I have no respect for anybody, who criminalizes drug use.


He was using cocaine. That is one drug that should never be decriminalized. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you've never suffered having a drug addict in your family...

It would be totally different if it were marijuana, but harder drugs should not be associated with casual use.


I knew someone in college who did cocaine for fun at clubs. She's a banker now and doing fine. It's amazing what self-control can do for a person. One person opts to have extra fun at parties. The other person opts to ruin their life.

I blame the person rather than the product. Some people drink and have fun with friends. Other people drink and murder people with cars and beat their wives and children. It's not the product, it's the person imo. Again, it's amazing what self-control can do.
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Yorl



Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:32 am Reply with quote
This just in, police in Japan are irritated that anyone who listens to Denki Groove has known they do drugs for 30 years and didn't tell them. I guess there's always somebody late to the party.
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Commander Cluck



Joined: 02 May 2019
Posts: 77
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 12:06 pm Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
"Pro drug people on Twitter"? He was arrested, served time, and apologized publicly. No one is claiming that his fans are supporting him in a continued drug habit, just that he shouldn't be considered a social pariah after coming clean. He's not writing tweets about how great drugs are ("Hey, kids! Try this at home!"), he's smiling in a picture.
He's already lost his career, what good would a life sentence do for Japanese society?

Now, as for the United States, with a bigger drug problem, thousands of struggling addicts, and many lives lost to overdose, it's worth noting that decriminalization and harm reduction measure actually work a hell of a lot better than a "war on drugs." If we truly believed the psychological research that shows that addiction is a mental health issue (and one that mostly leads to self-harm), and not a criminal act, we could save lives. That doesn't mean the drugs are considered legal and available, or that selling drugs is legal--- decriminalization just means a society doesn't punish people harshly for merely *using* drugs/being addicted.

But don't take my word for it, take Portugal's---they tried it and it worked:
https://filtermag.org/2019/02/28/portugal-decriminalization-drug-use-explained/amp/

I want to be clear that I am not suggesting this for Japan, where illegal drug use isn't already a problem. But Americans (especially those touched by addiction) would do well to learn from Portugal's example.


Decriminalization is not legalization. If people were advocating for decriminalization it would be one thing, but people here are asking for the legalization of drugs. Legalization isn't about helping addicts or removing drugs from a society, it's about making drugs easier to obtain and making money off them. People in this thread are saying Taki should be able to do as much cocaine as he want and all these narcs should mind their own business, which is the exact opposite of what decriminalization is all about.
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Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:13 pm Reply with quote
Mr. sickVisionz wrote:
I knew someone in college who did cocaine for fun at clubs. She's a banker now and doing fine. It's amazing what self-control can do for a person. One person opts to have extra fun at parties. The other person opts to ruin their life.

I blame the person rather than the product. Some people drink and have fun with friends. Other people drink and murder people with cars and beat their wives and children. It's not the product, it's the person imo. Again, it's amazing what self-control can do.

Self-control is just one of the ways all people are not created equal. Good for your college acquaintance for not letting the drugs control her, but not everyone is capable of limiting themselves in that way. No-one "opts" to ruin their lives; the addictive nature of the drugs does that for them. It's why they're controlled substances; they're not restricted purely because some no-fun-allowed bureaucrat decided people are enjoying themselves too much. Yes this is a problem with alcohol too, which is why in various places alcohol is also controlled to some degree or other. That little episode with the US's 18th Amendment underlines why simply banning it isn't a realistic solution (for reasons not dissimilar to how the War On Drugs is failing), but letting absolutely everyone go completely nuts without limits is a bad idea too.
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Mad_Scientist
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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:41 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
ACAB: All Cops Are Bakas.


This made me laugh a lot.

On topic more, even taking into account the strict laws, I still find it a bit absurd that the police are upset because a tweet where the guy was smiling got too many likes. Yeesh. Personally I think Japan could really stand to adopt a more forgiving attitude regarding drug use.
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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:13 am Reply with quote
[quote="Commander Cluck"
Decriminalization is not legalization. If people were advocating for decriminalization it would be one thing, but people here are asking for the legalization of drugs. Legalization isn't about helping addicts or removing drugs from a society, it's about making drugs easier to obtain and making money off them. People in this thread are saying Taki should be able to do as much cocaine as he want and all these narcs should mind their own business, which is the exact opposite of what decriminalization is all about.[/quote]
I didn't see anyone argue that cocaine should be legalized, just that drug use shouldn't be criminalized. And Taki, as far as we know, is no longer using drugs, so what's wrong with appreciating a picture with him smiling. Some people are responding as if he's *doing drugs* in the picture. He's not!

Mr. sickVisionz wrote:
Sakurafire_ wrote:
valoon wrote:
I have no respect for anybody, who criminalizes drug use.


He was using cocaine. That is one drug that should never be decriminalized. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you've never suffered having a drug addict in your family...

It would be totally different if it were marijuana, but harder drugs should not be associated with casual use.


I knew someone in college who did cocaine for fun at clubs. She's a banker now and doing fine. It's amazing what self-control can do for a person. One person opts to have extra fun at parties. The other person opts to ruin their life.

I blame the person rather than the product. Some people drink and have fun with friends. Other people drink and murder people with cars and beat their wives and children. It's not the product, it's the person imo. Again, it's amazing what self-control can do.

There are decades of research on addiction, and most of it points to, yes, some people are more susceptible to addiction than others, but it's because of factors mostly beyond their control, like genetics and the environment they were raised in. An anecdote about an individual who was able to use cocaine temporarily does not contradict that many people become addicted to cocaine and struggle to quit because of the way the chemical interacts with their brain, not because they lack self control.
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Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2045
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:03 am Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
There are decades of research on addiction, and most of it points to, yes, some people are more susceptible to addiction than others, but it's because of factors mostly beyond their control, like genetics and the environment they were raised in. An anecdote about an individual who was able to use cocaine temporarily does not contradict that many people become addicted to cocaine and struggle to quit because of the way the chemical interacts with their brain, not because they lack self control.


I was replying to someone who said people shouldn't be allowed to do drugs like cocaine because some people have used it to ruin their lives. Said in the context of a guy receiving maximum punishment not because he was high and did something to hurt someone or cause harm, but simply because someone found out that he had been high at some point in the past.

I was not saying people can't become drug addicts. People say they're addicted to Fortnite and you have to respect is as legit, so certainly a person can get addicted to something that's actually a drug with proven actual addictive properties. Common people say self control means nothing in dealing with addiction and recovery, but I wonder how many people working in rehab centers and counseling addicts will tell you that self-control is a zero factor in rehabbing and not relapsing? That it simply isn't a factor.

Either way, I'm not for banning things because some people can't handle it and lose control. Some people are idiots with alcohol and use it to destroy themselves and others. I don't think that means we ban beer. At least not in the US. Banning vice has always just resulted in more use and an increase in carnage associated with the vice because now it's solely in the hands of criminals.
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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:59 am Reply with quote
^I hear you. Personally, I am all for decriminalization and harm reduction, and legalizing some drugs (definitely Marijuana, for example, and psychodelics for medical use). I'm not sure if harder, more addicting drugs like cocaine, meth, heroine, etc would ever be considered safe enough for occasional use.
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