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INTEREST: IGN: Catherine: Full Body Game's English Release Changes Deadname Credits


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Stelman257



Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:28 pm Reply with quote
Times have changed in society. Making jokes about trans people, the way they look or insulting their choice to be trans isn't something you do anymore. Back in the day even 4kids dubs used to make fun of them (Dr. Crowler in YuGiOh GX especially) because that's how harmless many people thought the jokes were. But society, and standards and values in society, change.
It's like how many early era cartoons used to be incredibly racist, or promote slavery. Cartoons like this don't get made anymore, simple as that. And if they're remade or aired again, racist things get changed. The original items, and the history of them, are left untouched. AtlusUSA isn't patching the original Catherine, that game is a product of its time, and is how it is.

Saying you find it "pointless", or "offensive" that they would change this seems inane to me. Like someone clinging to the past, asking the world to never change and grow, even though we're always learning and growing. And those of you that actually cancel your preorder over something as little as this, I think are the ones who need to step back and seriously take a good look at what you actually value in life.
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Ashabel



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 288
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:35 pm Reply with quote
sunglasses24 wrote:
I personally feel that Atlus USA should have approached this the same way that Atlus JP did.


You mean by kicking Katsura Hashino off the Persona series and shipping him off to their B-team because the constant stream of criticism of his casual bigotry has finally gotten too big for them to handle?

Because I agree, that was a very fine way of handling things.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3682
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:36 pm Reply with quote
And so several people who complained and bitched revealed that they still won't be buying the game because obviously the characters were originally like that and by buying, they'd be supporting the original Japanese devs.
https://twitter.com/mombot/status/1131734359843590144
Good job for shooting yourself in the foot, Atlus
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KabaKabaFruit



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1591
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:43 pm Reply with quote
Once again, we have a classic example of the fans losing it because of localization changes.

No cares given. Japan isn't America and vice versa. There are going to be differences in cultural attitudes that won't effectively transfer over to each other's shores without stirring up controversy.

I'll get the localized game but I'll also import the original as well so I can have both versions. Problem solved.
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Ashabel



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 288
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:44 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
And so several people who complained and bitched revealed that they still won't be buying the game because obviously the characters were originally like that and by buying, they'd be supporting the original Japanese devs.
https://twitter.com/mombot/status/1131734359843590144
Good job for shooting yourself in the foot, Atlus


I sincerely hope you realize exactly how you come off when you take a tweet that literally says "I couldn't care less about this game and was never going to buy it, but hey, I heard they changed it to be less bigoted and that's a nice thing of them to do." and falsely present it as "I actively campaigned to see that Atlus changes this game's contents, but still won't buy it after the change because of how it originally was".
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Re:SOUL



Joined: 02 Mar 2016
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:55 pm Reply with quote
Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
More censorship for the easily offended.


Yeah, how dare transgender be offended at transphobic comments? Who do they think they are?

That's sarcasm.

It's pretty basic that the cultures of Japan and the west don't always align, so why is it that when westerners complain it's always a negative thing? Get your blind fanboysim towards There is cases when complaining is unnecessary, and cases when it is. Complaining about sexuality in games for example is arguably ridiculous, but arguing about the fair treatment of people is not. There are times when people are right to say something. I'm transgender, and as much as I will enjoy this game I don't want to be told that I'm less of a person. If you think that it's fine to treat people badly just so you can get content "as it was created" then you should reevaluate your morals.

There is a difference between portraying a character in a certain way, and having a game simply fail to acknowledge and respect a character, and what that character can represent in this case. The fact that the entire game deadnamed Erica outside of Vincent's dialogue simply shows a lack of consideration and respect.


Last edited by Re:SOUL on Fri May 24, 2019 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Commander Cluck



Joined: 02 May 2019
Posts: 64
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:00 pm Reply with quote
cyborgkiddo wrote:
Why is everyone referring to this as censorship? It's not censorship. Censoring would be making Erica not trans, like Nintendo of America did to Vivian in Paper Mario. This is a small localisation change so as not to be pointlessly offensive to trans people. It's basic human decency and respect to a group of people who are rarely given any sort of human decency or respect. Why complain about it? It's a small change that does not affect you negatively in any way, and which affects a small group of people positively.


Why is NoA removing the characters misgendering and joking about Vivian bad but Atlus USA removing the character misgendering and joking about Erica good? Seems like there's no real difference there. NoA removed all the insults and jokes from the characters referring to Vivian as actually being a man, which is what Vincent and the other characters do to Erica in Catherine.

But other than that, I disagree with your definition. Localization would be if they spiced up the jokes about Erica, making them funnier for American audiences like quoting a movie that made a similar joke. For example, they could sneak in a The Crying Game reference when Toby expressed interest in sleeping with Erica. Removing the jokes entirely is just flat out censorship, since you're not trying to keep the same meaning while making it more digestible to an American audience, which is what localization is defined as in the industry.
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BodaciousSpacePirate
It's Over 9000!It's Over 9000!


Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 2715
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:04 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
And so several people who complained and bitched revealed that they still won't be buying the game because obviously the characters were originally like that and by buying, they'd be supporting the original Japanese devs.
https://twitter.com/mombot/status/1131734359843590144
Good job for shooting yourself in the foot, Atlus


As someone who has bought pretty much everything Atlus has put out for the 3DS in the past several years, I would hope that their reaction to "we stopped doing something some people found insulting, but it didn't make us any money!" wouldn't end up being "well, I guess we should never stop doing things that people find insulting!" I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, though, and you know what they say about hope.

Still, if I did believe that a company was going out of its way to demean me (which, regardless of your or my opinions, was how a lot of people felt about the whole Erica thing), and then they suddenly stopped doing things that demeaned me because they realized I had money, I would probably think twice before handing my money over to them. I'd probably be giving my money to a company that had never offended me in the first place.
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Watanabefan



Joined: 02 Oct 2017
Posts: 82
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:13 pm Reply with quote
Ashabel wrote:
sunglasses24 wrote:
I personally feel that Atlus USA should have approached this the same way that Atlus JP did.


You mean by kicking Katsura Hashino off the Persona series and shipping him off to their B-team because the constant stream of criticism of his casual bigotry has finally gotten too big for them to handle?

Because I agree, that was a very fine way of handling things.


Whoa, wait, what happened with him and Persona?
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TasteyCookie



Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 392
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:14 pm Reply with quote
Stelman257 wrote:
Times have changed in society. Making jokes about trans people, the way they look or insulting their choice to be trans isn't something you do anymore. Back in the day even 4kids dubs used to make fun of them (Dr. Crowler in YuGiOh GX especially) because that's how harmless many people thought the jokes were. But society, and standards and values in society, change.
It's like how many early era cartoons used to be incredibly racist, or promote slavery. Cartoons like this don't get made anymore, simple as that. And if they're remade or aired again, racist things get changed. The original items, and the history of them, are left untouched. AtlusUSA isn't patching the original Catherine, that game is a product of its time, and is how it is.

Saying you find it "pointless", or "offensive" that they would change this seems inane to me. Like someone clinging to the past, asking the world to never change and grow, even though we're always learning and growing. And those of you that actually cancel your preorder over something as little as this, I think are the ones who need to step back and seriously take a good look at what you actually value in life.


Except for this case doesn't even remotely represent societal values at large. This is a tiny minority blowing up on it on social media (including organized death threats to the Hashino from ResetEra) in order to get it changed for everyone as they were simply just offended by it. And it's the same minority blowing up about anything rated Cero D from Japan. In the age of social media, these minor niche issues get blown out of proportion by fringe actors (on both sides mind you) that end up trying to affect how other people consume media, which simply is not OK for me. Let people decide what is and not OK for themselves, stop trying to decide "I don't like thing X so X should be banned for everyone." Giving fringe outrage mobs what they want gives you the likes of crazy such as what's happening in Alabama/Missouri, and quite frankly I just want outside politics to leave the media I consume alone. Thus Atlus won't be getting money from me for Catherine.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3682
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:20 pm Reply with quote
Ashabel wrote:
configspace wrote:
And so several people who complained and bitched revealed that they still won't be buying the game because obviously the characters were originally like that and by buying, they'd be supporting the original Japanese devs.
https://twitter.com/mombot/status/1131734359843590144
Good job for shooting yourself in the foot, Atlus


I sincerely hope you realize exactly how you come off when you take a tweet that literally says "I couldn't care less about this game and was never going to buy it, but hey, I heard they changed it to be less bigoted and that's a nice thing of them to do." and falsely present it as "I actively campaigned to see that Atlus changes this game's contents, but still won't buy it after the change because of how it originally was".

No, she stated herself that she decided to flat out boycott Atlus because of it in back in Feb
https://twitter.com/Andr01dPeach/status/1096946971422662656
What's the purpose of getting pissed, supporting the change if you're not going to buy it?
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Commander Cluck



Joined: 02 May 2019
Posts: 64
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:24 pm Reply with quote
Watanabefan wrote:
Whoa, wait, what happened with him and Persona?


Nothing. <insults removed> Hashino stepped down from being Persona's series director in 2017 after Persona 5 launched and said he wanted to persue other types of games, specifically more traditional fantasy RPGs rather than Japanese school simulators.

https://personacentral.com/persona-series-director-katsura-hashino-leaving-future-successors/

Absolutely nowhere does it state Atlus booted him off for "bigoted views" or whatever nonsensical narrative that poster is trying to push.
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Ashabel



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 288
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:26 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
No, she stated herself that she decided to flat out boycott Atlus because of it in back in Feb
https://twitter.com/Andr01dPeach/status/1096946971422662656
What's the purpose of getting pissed, supporting the change if you're not going to buy it?


Except that the tweet you linked and the tweet linked in the comments above come from completely different people who don't seem to be related in any way.

<insults>
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BodaciousSpacePirate
It's Over 9000!It's Over 9000!


Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 2715
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:31 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
What's the purpose of getting pissed, supporting the change if you're not going to buy it?


If I can employ an example: I'm not a big Power Rangers fan, but I'd probably be pretty cheesed off if they introduced a character who went around casually making racial slurs. I'd want them to get rid of the character, but getting rid of said character wouldn't cause me to go out and buy a bunch of MegaZords. It's kind of like that.
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DRWii



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 579
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:35 pm Reply with quote
Ashabel wrote:
You mean by kicking Katsura Hashino off the Persona series and shipping him off to their B-team because the constant stream of criticism of his casual bigotry has finally gotten too big for them to handle?

"B-Team"
Quote:
The list of staff members involved with the project is as follows:

Producer / Director
Katsura Hashino (Studio Zero) [Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, Persona 3, Persona 4, Persona 5, and more]

Character Designer
Shigenori Soejima (Atlus Artwork Team) [Persona 3, Persona 4, Persona 5, Catherine, and more]

Sound Composer
Shoji Meguro (Atlus Sound Team) [Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, Persona 3, Persona 4, Persona 5, and more]

Scenario & Planning
Yuichiro Tanaka (scenario planner) [Persona 3, Persona 3 FES, Persona 4, Persona 5, and more]
Azusa Kido (scenario & system planner) [Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, Persona 3, Persona 4, Persona 5, and more]
Atsushi Watanabe (system planner) [Persona 3, Persona 4, Persona 5]
Kenichi Gotoh (system planner) [Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha series, Persona 4 Golden, Persona 5, and more]

Programmers
Yujiro Kosaka [Persona 2: Innocent Sin, Persona 2: Eternal Punishment, Persona 3, Persona 4, Persona 5, and more]
Toshiyuki Niida [Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, Persona 3, Persona 4, Persona 5, and more]
Hirotaka Mizuno [Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon, Persona Q: Shadow of the Labyrinth, Persona 5]

Designers
Yaushiro Akimoto [Catherine, Persona 5]
Hiroki Fujioka [Etrian Odyssey IV: Legends of the Titan, Persona Q: Shadow of the Labyrinth, Persona 5]

Project Manager
Akiyasu Yamamoto [Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha series, Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey, Persona 3 Portable, Persona 4 Golden, and more]

I'm no businessman, but I don't think any gaming company would take an over $5 million loss to form a "B-Team" to make a new IP for an HD console.
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