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INTEREST: Overlord Author Kugane Maruyama Expresses Frustration at Fan Translations


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Catseyetiger



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 722
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:40 pm Reply with quote
Hello,

I enjoyed the Anime as a American fan and will buy it. When it comes out here in this market I also read light novels legally own all of Is it worng to pick up girls in a dungeon and it’s spin off series! Have all most all of the Hayate the combat butlers books released awaiting the new one! Your comments just poor taste I As a collector will Never purchase the released novels now!! NEVER due to the authors poor taste in rushing the conclusion due to a miss representation of how things work! It takes years for a novel to get translated and in markets over here! That’s the publishers fault and faulty licensing system as well as some of the authors not wishing materials to be made public world wide though that’s just stupid. As a fan I have over a hundred purchases manga and light novels easy! Also I will not pick up something without reading it first to become a fan or watching it! I can make a example of one non licensed anime that’s just come on Crunchyroll legitimately for viewing as I can I have been waiting for a US release for years!! Seems Japan does not care for my money.. your loss..
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Thespacemaster



Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 697
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:12 pm Reply with quote
Well what do you expect? this was a limited collectors book that is not even going to be released in english so how the hell is the western fans suppost to read it? if u guys are not oging to release it in the first place?

I buy the novels anime merchandise but i would of never have known about without fan translations, why else would they know that it is popular enough to warrant an official release in the first place.

You want us not to fan translate than how about you actually released the book here otherwise what can we do? They are losing money themselves by not releasing it in the first place so talk about hypocricy.
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 5284
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:37 pm Reply with quote
This logic is so flawed. First, the point everyone else already made about how this isn't available legally in ENG. Good argument against that is that that doesn't mean you have to right to get it at all. Of course you don't. But the main argument I see for anti-piracy is that you should support creators. But in this case that's literally IMPOSSIBLE to do. Even if you bought the Blu-ray it came out, you'd have to get a fan translation....

But more importantly, multiple studies over the last 20 years have shown no evidence to suggest piracy is harmful. And some evidence has shown it's actually positive for sales...

https://gizmodo.com/the-eu-suppressed-a-300-page-study-that-found-piracy-do-1818629537

"The only negative link the report found was with major blockbuster films"

My theory is that most people that pirate were never going to buy anyway, ONLY pirated because they were either unsure if they'd like the project and will buy if they do like it, or had no legal access to the content at the time of piracy but would buy it when it became available.

Search up Gabe Newell's quotes on Piracy for some truth on the subject from the largest digital game store. It's all about accessibility.
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myskaros



Joined: 13 Jun 2011
Posts: 564
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:57 pm Reply with quote
Catseyetiger wrote:
Your comments just poor taste I As a collector will Never purchase the released novels now!! NEVER due to the authors poor taste in rushing the conclusion due to a miss representation of how things work! It takes years for a novel to get translated and in markets over here! That’s the publishers fault and faulty licensing system as well as some of the authors not wishing materials to be made public world wide though that’s just stupid.

The author can only do so much himself, you know. He can't magically make people translate or release his books more quickly. However, when he knows that his books are being pirated, he can do what he did, which is declare that he'll end the series earlier than intended. If you don't want to buy his books anymore, that's your right. If he wants to stop writing for whatever reason, that's his right.

Thespacemaster wrote:
You want us not to fan translate than how about you actually released the book here otherwise what can we do? They are losing money themselves by not releasing it in the first place so talk about hypocricy.

False equivalency. Customers have the option to choose to buy a book or not buy a book. If you don't like something, you just don't buy it. Publishers don't have that option. They have to invest up front, they only find out after the fact if something sells well or not. Also, Overlord is being released officially in English. Just because it's slower than some people want is no excuse to resort to piracy.
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asie



Joined: 28 May 2019
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:00 pm Reply with quote
DRosencraft wrote:
They can choose as many or as few folks be exposed to it at whatever pace they want.


That's only half of the picture: if they wouldn't mind offering the show or book in a given region, but nobody comes to them with the money, is it really their decision?

I live in a region where about 1/3 to 2/3 - depending on season - of simulcasts are simply not available legally, period. Likewise most classic series. (We're doing very well on manga, though, at least.) Of course, I do my best to avoid piracy - but it effectively pulls me away from the fandom if none of the content that interests me is available to me to watch. (Evading region locks, while sometimes legal, is not an answer; the only reason we treat that and streaming region lock evasion via VPNs differently is that one of those is a violation of the streaming company's terms of service whereas the other is not.)

Sometimes, I ponder on this question, and I wonder "what can I do to change the situation?" - but the answer always comes down to "move on". This is no longer the early 90s, and you don't really see groups of fans licensing something "just because" - it's a business, and if the business is impossible to turn a profit on you simply don't do that business. If my region is impossible to satisfactorily profit from anime distribution in, then my region just won't get anime.
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Thespacemaster



Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 697
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:02 pm Reply with quote
myskaros wrote:
Catseyetiger wrote:
Your comments just poor taste I As a collector will Never purchase the released novels now!! NEVER due to the authors poor taste in rushing the conclusion due to a miss representation of how things work! It takes years for a novel to get translated and in markets over here! That’s the publishers fault and faulty licensing system as well as some of the authors not wishing materials to be made public world wide though that’s just stupid.

The author can only do so much himself, you know. He can't magically make people translate or release his books more quickly. However, when he knows that his books are being pirated, he can do what he did, which is declare that he'll end the series earlier than intended. If you don't want to buy his books anymore, that's your right. If he wants to stop writing for whatever reason, that's his right.

Thespacemaster wrote:
You want us not to fan translate than how about you actually released the book here otherwise what can we do? They are losing money themselves by not releasing it in the first place so talk about hypocricy.

False equivalency. Customers have the option to choose to buy a book or not buy a book. If you don't like something, you just don't buy it. Publishers don't have that option. They have to invest up front, they only find out after the fact if something sells well or not. Also, Overlord is being released officially in English. Just because it's slower than some people want is no excuse to resort to piracy.


its not false,the side story is not being released in the west only the main ln and manga can, if u want us to buy the ss than translate and release it here./
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AksaraKishou



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 1173
Location: End of the World
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:36 pm Reply with quote
LegitPancake wrote:
I mean, it's questionable if a side-novel included with the BD/Dvd would ever be officially translated in English, since the rights are very complicated. Yen Press would certainly never be given the rights, unfortunately. The only instance I know of is the newest season of Highschool Dxd sold by Funimation including a light novel when that series has never been available in English outside the manga or anime. So I see nothing wrong with a fan translation of that. But the main novel series is licensed by Yen Press and is not that far behind the Japanese publication, so any fan translations of that should stop.


What...? Could you please elaborate? You make it sound as if the DxD LN is licensed. Neutral
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Sceleris



Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 42
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:43 pm Reply with quote
I feel like this thread is too focused on the economic side of piracy; remember that a creator has not only economic rights, but also moral (artistic) rights. Maruyama wanted (I assume) to do something special for those devoted Overlord fans who had spent tens of thousands of yen buying the Japanese anime discs -- a present from him, out of appreciation of his loyal fans.

He made something for this one group of people, not for everyone in the world who can read English. Those were his artistic terms, and it's fully reasonable for him to be demotivated by those terms being broken. This is not about missing out on a tiny bit of royalties.

You can disregard the author's wishes, but don't pretend you're the good guy.
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ssjokg



Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 31
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:51 pm Reply with quote
Sceleris wrote:
I feel like this thread is too focused on the economic side of piracy; remember that a creator has not only economic rights, but also moral (artistic) rights. Maruyama wanted (I assume) to do something special for those devoted Overlord fans who had spent tens of thousands of yen buying the Japanese anime discs -- a present from him, out of appreciation of his loyal fans.

He made something for this one group of people, not for everyone in the world who can read English. Those were his artistic terms, and it's fully reasonable for him to be demotivated by those terms being broken. This is not about missing out on a tiny bit of royalties.

You can disregard the author's wishes, but don't pretend you're the good guy.


So you are saying that Overlord has no western anime fans that by the discs?

And if he is an artist he should value all of is fans not just the japanese that offer him money.Western fans also want to do that but seems like both creators and publishers are a bit too stupid for that.

And he is clearly using bs like that to excuse his lack of interest, so screw whatever right he had.
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kpossibles



Joined: 01 Dec 2018
Posts: 105
Location: USA
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 4:14 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
Wait, so because there's an american fan translation of his work he doesn't feel like he should bother finishing the work? Are margin in LN so razor thin that volume that don't get published in NA lose money?

And I still don't understand why official translation are so incredibly slow compared to fan version, I can somewhat understand when it involved printing the book and everything, for digital publication shouldn't the official version be faster since they can pay someone to do it full time compared to fan who do it part time?


I think most of the pain was that they translated a special/limited thing that was only for Japanese superfans who bought all the Overlord III DVDs/BDs... I'm sure he could overlook some other stuff, but he's gotta make ends meet and it's hard when people pirate your stuff.

Also, Yen Press could always consider digital-first LN releases if they haven't done so yet? Idk how the physical LN market is doing, but considering that JNovel Club is printing stuff now & even doing manga, it must be doing ok. Official translations have to go through an editing process and hopefully the quality is better than fan translations, but it goes slightly slower because the translators still have bills to pay! I don't think most manga/LN translators do this full-time because it pays way less than translating in other fields. http://j-entranslations.com/category/interviews-with-localizers/
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Joshua Zarate
I Pause For PantsuI Pause For Pantsu


Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Posts: 1912
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 4:44 pm Reply with quote
AksaraKishou wrote:
LegitPancake wrote:
I mean, it's questionable if a side-novel included with the BD/Dvd would ever be officially translated in English, since the rights are very complicated. Yen Press would certainly never be given the rights, unfortunately. The only instance I know of is the newest season of Highschool Dxd sold by Funimation including a light novel when that series has never been available in English outside the manga or anime. So I see nothing wrong with a fan translation of that. But the main novel series is licensed by Yen Press and is not that far behind the Japanese publication, so any fan translations of that should stop.


What...? Could you please elaborate? You make it sound as if the DxD LN is licensed. Neutral


I think what LegitPancake is referring to is this: https://www.funimation.com/blog/2019/01/28/april-2019-limited-edition-sets-high-school-dxd-hero-golden-kamuy/
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 1319
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 4:49 pm Reply with quote
If this was something they ever planned on releasing to overseas audiences officially, then yeah, I can see why he'd be miffed.

But if not, and this was something that would never release here which was only ever a bonus for the Japanese audiences, then I don't see the issue.

Guess it all depends...
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XerneasYveltal



Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 603
Location: Philippines
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:37 pm Reply with quote
Yen Press's translations are not known to be of excellent quality - or so I may have heard from other folks in a Discord server that I joined.

No wonder fan translations continue to persist even in a time when the Overlord LNs have gotten a proper English release.
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Sceleris



Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 42
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:43 pm Reply with quote
ssjokg wrote:
So you are saying that Overlord has no western anime fans that by the discs?

And if he is an artist he should value all of is fans not just the japanese that offer him money.Western fans also want to do that but seems like both creators and publishers are a bit too stupid for that.

And he is clearly using bs like that to excuse his lack of interest, so screw whatever right he had.

Of course I'm not saying there aren't non-Japanese fans buying the discs, that would be silly. If non-Japanese fans import the discs and can use the same mechanism as Japanese fans to get the special novel, then I would assume Maruyama is equally happy with them as well. But it's also completely beside the point.

The point is that he wrote it and has full moral rights to dictate who may read it.

"But I want to read it!"
That makes no difference; your wishes grant you no right to violate his moral rights.

"I don't understand why he even cares."
That makes no difference; you don't have to understand or agree with his reasoning, they're still his moral rights.

"It's just an excuse to not keep writing."
That makes no difference; he can create or abstain from creating his work however he wants, and he still has full moral rights to his work.

"It's his fault for not accepting my money [by offering an official purchasable translation]!"
Not everything is about money. Even if it was a work published for free online, he would still have full moral rights to limit distribution as he wishes.

"He should value non-Japanese fans as well!"
Him wanting to retain control over how his works are distributed -- with perhaps control delegated but on his terms -- does not mean he doesn't value non-Japanese fans. It just means he likes his rights.

"I'm going to read it anyway."
Okay, but you are violating his rights. That's your fault, not his. Own up to it.

"Screw his rights!"
If you're a copyright abolitionist, there's a discussion to be had. If not, then that seems like a childish attitude to have.

(Note: I don't claim to be virtuous, I violate rights like his all the time, I just advocate knowing that it's wrong and that we're entitled to nothing (in absence of contracts or law-regulated purchases or the like).)
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Catseyetiger



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 722
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:59 pm Reply with quote
The publishers and legal thing seems to take years to release out of its localized area. This seems intended by the legal system. I enjoyed the anime Overlord as a US fan had thought of buying the light novels at some point. I will just get the anime and hope the producers keep doing well with the show.
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