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Answerman - How Much Control Do Manga Artists Have Over Hollywood Adaptations?


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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15279
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:47 pm Reply with quote
Silver: Get one fluent in English at the time, and it would've been a done deal. Though I'll conceded it was a bit lazy, 'They can't tell the difference, anyway' move for Geisha which seemed to be a response to Lucy Liu as a 'happa' for Kill Bill.

Cast: That was a successful move on the part of FOX. No way are they worth $70+ billion, when Disney's got the bigger hit movies alone this year. And now they've even beat Titanic, and are only one movie away from doing the same to Avatar. Just buy X-Men and Fantastic Four, dammit. What do you need anything else for, when Die Hard hasn't been a hit in a while?!

As for King, he actually does get a lot of creative control over his movies, even on both Shinings. At least moreso than Toeiyama did with Evolution. But unlike Evolution, at least the Kubrick version looks like the flipping book. And the DB deal was clearly predicated on Toeiyama expecting at least some X-Men-style professionalism for the material. So it was simply another case of a studio blowing off the fanbase, just because their cartoon was on cable and not based off a comic in color. Or whatever excuse they'll have, because, again, Deadpool was made for the same money, and I know Rob got what he wanted with that story.
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Animegunclub



Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 127
Location: AyeTeeEl, Jawhjah
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:04 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
E.L. James and her infamously tight grip over the 50 Shades of Grey movies.


kinky
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:08 pm Reply with quote
Watanabefan wrote:

Also needs to be pointed out that creator input isn't necessarily a good thing.


Not to nitpick but....
Quote:

This is in stark contrast to the Japanese "gensakusha" system, by which the creator of a story (or their agents) get to approve just about everything.

The gensakusha system can be good or bad. The good is obvious: they could prevent an out-of-control Hollywood machine from utterly destroying the original story. But most manga artists don't understand filmmaking, and meddling from a total newbie (especially one drunk on power or access to movie stars) can slow down a production or even bring it to a total halt. (This actually has happened many times with domestically produced adaptations, both anime and live-action.)


On that note we still have yet to see that JBA Phantom Blood movie that came out a few years ago allegedly because of this.

-SP- wrote:

I just find it funny how people think using a "white" actor to play a Japanese characters role, is racist. But these same people say that the characters should be played by an "Asian" actor. Is it not racist if a Chinese guy is playing the role of a Japanese character? Doesn't that feed the stereotype that all Asians look the same?


Not so much racist as....bizarre which is funny since this is essentially what happened with the Hellboy reboot where you had Daniel Dae-Kim a south korean playing a japanese character......and this is after a mini-bruhaha of the role originally supposed to be played by a white actor.

GATSU wrote:
Still think it was extortion, because most American and Western adaptations at least attempt to resemble the source material-even Hellboy, which just bombed in its rebooted form. As for Alita, they were hoping for another Avatar, and Cameron still has yet to deliver on that. Anyway, will audiences, I hope there's no 'Terminator fatigue' over Dark Fate? Who knows,


Not technically no but the last three movies have not been held in very high regard as the first two films.


GATSU wrote:

but it doesn’t help that it shares a similar title as a certain X-Men movie which I guess they’re too embarrassed to call X-Men.


If Wolverine can be called Logan (despite the first two films being called "Wolverine")
Dark Phoenix can get away with dropping X-Men.


Last edited by BadNewsBlues on Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Steve Minecraft



Joined: 13 Feb 2019
Posts: 120
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:15 pm Reply with quote
Answerman wrote:
The gensakusha system can be good or bad. The good is obvious: they could prevent an out-of-control Hollywood machine from utterly destroying the original story. But most manga artists don't understand filmmaking, and meddling from a total newbie (especially one drunk on power or access to movie stars) can slow down a production or even bring it to a total halt. (This actually has happened many times with domestically produced adaptations, both anime and live-action.)


Doesn't anime prove this wrong? Mangaka are known to have pretty sizable control over anime adaptions and those term out just fine most of the time, despite their lack of knowing how to make television shows. Anime to manga adaptions are some of the most accurate adaptions out there because of how closely involved the creator is. I don't see how making a film would be any different outside of film being an inherently inferior medium for adapting a manga because you only have 2 hours and you're limited to live-action which doesn't lend itself well to a lot of titles even for films with hundreds of million dollars for budget.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:25 pm Reply with quote
Steve Minecraft wrote:

Doesn't anime prove this wrong


Maybe the TV shows (which do not in fact turn out fine most of the time) but not movies based on manga's which is specifically what Justin was alluding to.



Steve Minecraft wrote:
I don't see how making a film would be any different outside of film being an inherently inferior medium for adapting a manga because you only have 2 hours and you're limited to live-action


Correct if I'm wrong but the the last three DragonBall Super Movies along with the more recent My Hero Academia movie were animated.

Hell the Akira and (original) GiTS movies were animated. Though both of those are considered more popular than the mangas they're adapted from.
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Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:07 am Reply with quote
#854626 wrote:
i feel if these american producers would just read/watch the source material and do there best to understand its story, characters, and themes from start to finish.

That would involve them giving a damn about the quality of the movies they produce, rather than seeing them as interchangeable devices for extracting money from audiences.
-SP- wrote:
I just find it funny how people think using a "white" actor to play a Japanese characters role, is racist. But these same people say that the characters should be played by an "Asian" actor. Is it not racist if a Chinese guy is playing the role of a Japanese character? Doesn't that feed the stereotype that all Asians look the same?

I dunno, it's rarely commented on when the specific ethnicity of the character and actor don't match for "white" or "black" characters, as long as the broad category is correct. I do certainly agree that ethnicity should match as much as possible, but even in cases where the difference is contentious in reality (any of Irish, Scottish or Welsh for English, for example), the actor's specific ethnicity matching character isn't especially worried about. While I agree that it would be best to have Japanese actors in Akira, surely you'd at least concede that having a Chinese (or other Asian) actor in there is better than making the character white.

My gut feeling is that given Taika Waititi's own background he's very sensitive to the issue and likely intends to cast Japanese as much as possible, but said "Asian" because he's planning around the possibility of a, for example, Korean actor who's really skilled and otherwise perfect for a part really nailing an audition. And/or it may not be feasible to find enough extras who are Japanese specifically, but Asian in general is doable.
Commander Cluck wrote:
Akira isn't lauded for it's story, plot, or characters. It was lauded because of it's animation which was amazing for the 1988s and a lot of westerners first exposure to Japanese animation, let alone animation with mature content. That's why any project which has come out since then that have surpassed it on a technical level won't ever be able to dethroned that achievement. It's also why a live-action adaption of Akira seems entirely pointless. It's removing the primary thing the movie is lauded for

Do remember that the Akira anime film is itself an adaptation of the manga, which widely is lauded for its plot, story and characters. It's entirely possible that this live-action film will bring across aspects of the manga that the anime film didn't.
SilverTalon01 wrote:
Oh, I dunno... I remember Memoirs of a Geisha got a lot of crap for casting a Chinese actress.

That was the least of the movie's issues, honestly. And it was still better than casting a white actress would have been.
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Steve Minecraft



Joined: 13 Feb 2019
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:31 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Maybe the TV shows (which do not in fact turn out fine most of the time) but not movies based on manga's which is specifically what Justin was alluding to.

Correct if I'm wrong but the the last three DragonBall Super Movies along with the more recent My Hero Academia movie were animated.

Hell the Akira and (original) GiTS movies were animated. Though both of those are considered more popular than the mangas they're adapted from.


Ah, but those shounen movies are just 90 minute stories that take place in the same continuity with the same characters, all being done by the original studio that made the anime i.e. Toei and Bones in those two cases. Essentially just an episode of the anime but five times as long and in theaters. The movies here are by an outside company in another country trying to adapt the entire manga in a 2 hour live-action film.

Those anime movies also still have the creator's input like the anime though. You'd think that veto power would come as part of the contract to letting Hollywood make the movie in the first place, but I guess not.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:38 am Reply with quote
Steve Minecraft wrote:


Those anime movies also still have the creator's input like the anime though. You'd think that veto power would come as part of the contract to letting Hollywood make the movie in the first place, but I guess not.


Probably different for stuff adapted from international works.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:02 am Reply with quote
TsubomiKoneko wrote:
-SP- wrote:
brammerhammer23 wrote:
The live-action Akira now has lots of promise with Taika Waititi directing. He also recently said he is looking to cast Asian actors in the roles which would be a big deal.

Asian doesn't always equal Japanese. Unless they're using Japanese actors, the actors ethnicity/race doesn't really matter.


I think a lot of people would still rather it be Asian actors, regardless if they're Japanese, than seeing it whitewashed.


So your answer is to switch from whitewashing to yellow-washing ? Laughing
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ReifuTD



Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 171
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:07 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Steve Minecraft wrote:


Those anime movies also still have the creator's input like the anime though. You'd think that veto power would come as part of the contract to letting Hollywood make the movie in the first place, but I guess not.


Probably different for stuff adapted from international works.


I think it's just Hollywood being greedy, as Japanese companies work with Hollywood they are catching in to their tricks, look at Godzilla 98 and look at Godzilla now, Toho head learn how Hollywood works I mean they even worked on Detective Pikachu and you guy seen how that turned out.

Thankfully in Dragonball's case they sound pretty willing to try again, With lessons learn it will be better then the last go around. Again look at Godzilla 98 and look at Godzilla now.
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Cutiebunny



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:37 am Reply with quote
TsubomiKoneko wrote:
I think a lot of people would still rather it be Asian actors, regardless if they're Japanese, than seeing it whitewashed.


No, I'd rather convincing actors be found for all roles, regardless of ethnicity.
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ReifuTD



Joined: 19 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:39 am Reply with quote
Cptn_Taylor wrote:
TsubomiKoneko wrote:
-SP- wrote:
brammerhammer23 wrote:
The live-action Akira now has lots of promise with Taika Waititi directing. He also recently said he is looking to cast Asian actors in the roles which would be a big deal.

Asian doesn't always equal Japanese. Unless they're using Japanese actors, the actors ethnicity/race doesn't really matter.


I think a lot of people would still rather it be Asian actors, regardless if they're Japanese, than seeing it whitewashed.


So your answer is to switch from whitewashing to yellow-washing ? Laughing


That's a thing anime live action adaptions do I hate, Attack and Titan and Fullmetal Alchemist are set in European fantasies. Those should have international or Hollywood production so they could cast the right actors in the right races.

Bleach movie bugged me the same way, I'm pretty sure it was stated at some point that Ichigo's mother was white witch is why Ichigo has natural blond hair. But in the live action movie She's Japanese with dark hair witch actually leads to be few other things that bugs me. For example was treated bad by people and bullied because of his natural blond hair because blond people are seen as punks in Japan he had to grow up as a strong tough guy. But in the Live Action movie Ichigo dyes his hair meaning his hair color is a life choice not something that's part of him. Also if Ichigo is allowed to dye his hair at school why can't Orihime have blond brown hair? I would have been find with her having black hair other wise.
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FLCLGainax





PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:23 am Reply with quote
I was relieved Alita: Battle Angel turned out to be as good as it was. Maybe that had to do with James Cameron's insistance on it being faithful to the manga and picking a good director. While some elements were altered or shifted around (for better or worse), it really felt like I was watching a Gunnm「銃夢」film and not something unrecognizable. Dragonball: Evolution and Ghost in the Shell felt like cash-in adaptations with no divested interest by the filmmakers involved.
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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 821
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:20 pm Reply with quote
Steve Minecraft wrote:
Answerman wrote:
The gensakusha system can be good or bad. The good is obvious: they could prevent an out-of-control Hollywood machine from utterly destroying the original story. But most manga artists don't understand filmmaking, and meddling from a total newbie (especially one drunk on power or access to movie stars) can slow down a production or even bring it to a total halt. (This actually has happened many times with domestically produced adaptations, both anime and live-action.)


Doesn't anime prove this wrong? Mangaka are known to have pretty sizable control over anime adaptions and those term out just fine most of the time, despite their lack of knowing how to make television shows. Anime to manga adaptions are some of the most accurate adaptions out there because of how closely involved the creator is. I don't see how making a film would be any different outside of film being an inherently inferior medium for adapting a manga because you only have 2 hours and you're limited to live-action which doesn't lend itself well to a lot of titles even for films with hundreds of million dollars for budget.


Anime and hollywood films are very different. The former is intended for a niche audience, often one which already knows and loves the manga in question. A hollywood film is generally designed to appeal to as broad an audience as possible, generally one which cannot be assumed to know the source material beforehand.

Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:
That would involve them giving a damn about the quality of the movies they produce, rather than seeing them as interchangeable devices for extracting money from audiences.


Exactly. That rather sad fact is what many people are missing in this discussion. The average hollywood producer don't care one bit about being "true to the source material". They care about making money.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:31 pm Reply with quote
FLCL: It wasn't a cash-in. That was the best you can do with the source material and make it mass-market;and I even noticed the Alita peeps taking cues from the GITS peeps on promoting the former. Saw a repeat of Captain America on teevee, too, and no one complained about the way they 'augmented' Black Widow-which is the main reason they chose her for Kusanagi. They wanted that Avengers money. But you can't make GITS an Avengers, or have it sell to people who are going to buy that Cyberpunk game at E3, instead, so it needed a hook. As for Alita, haven't seen it, but it doesn't sound like it's the best you can do, even if it's 'authentic' to the source material. No stars and no simple one-off story. But then people liked Speed Racer, and that one suffers from similar pacing and casting issues, too.
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