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INTEREST: Producer: Western Audience Influenced Tales of Arise


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Grimvice



Joined: 10 Aug 2017
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:39 pm Reply with quote
jellybeanbandit wrote:
Grimvice wrote:
Most of the 3D Tales Of games looks and is stylized like generic anime. Why play a lengthy game when you can get a similar, more efficient experience just watching an anime? RPGs aren't always a streamlined experience and can get grindy, and Tales Of games sometimes have the anime adaptations you could watch instead of going through the RPG slog.


Anime adaptions of games are NEVER as good as the games.


Akiba Strip the Animation, Steins;gate, Rage of Bahamut, The [email protected]

It's rare, but to say that anime based off games are NEVER as good or even better than their games is ridiculous.
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#893017



Joined: 09 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:46 pm Reply with quote
Grimvice - Bishounen and bishoujo are Tales' main selling point for me. Persona is a great game but the artwork isn't that pretty. Can't stand spending hours for playing when staring at ugly characters. It was the main reason I ditched Mass Effect trilogy, because the characters looked so disgusting (the fish like alien and the alien with ugly mouth/teeth in particular).
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Grimvice



Joined: 10 Aug 2017
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:50 pm Reply with quote
#893017 wrote:
Grimvice - Bishounen and bishoujo are Tales' main selling point for me. Persona is a great game but the artwork isn't that pretty. Can't stand spending hours for playing when staring at ugly characters. It was the main reason I ditched Mass Effect trilogy, because the characters looked so disgusting (the fish like alien and the alien with ugly mouth/teeth in particular).


But that's all Tales Of has, the stories and game mechanics are lame. The stories and game mechanics of Persona and Mass Effect (at least the first two games) are consistently good.
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 1655
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:53 pm Reply with quote
El Hermano wrote:
Kicksville wrote:
Seems like a vicious cycle when console games sell better (or at least as well) in the West / internationally > Developers emphasize or credit more Western influence > Western buyers get upset over Western influence. I don't know that the developers are really thinking of any of the negative connotations being thought of here.


Tales doesn't sell better in the west though, which is the strange thing. This is the exact same thing that happened with Star Ocean Integrity and Faithlessness. They pander a franchise that has never been popular in the west to a western market and then they get criticized by not only the Japanese fanbase but the western fans who like Japanese games in the first place.

It could still be a good game, even though the graphics look very lifeless to me. The game breaker will be the combat. We only see a second or two in the trailer, but it might end up being Final Fantasy 15 style which would be disastrous.


While I am sure its not much compared to the likes of GTA etc, Symphonia sold over a million copies in the US from what I recall, and Vesperia also did pretty well despite being on the xbox 360. And for a non ff jrpg in the west those sales numbers are ridiculous.

That being said, I feel like starting with FF13 the FF games have becoming more western, FF 15 they really pushed it, and thats about the time the games went off a cliff.

Like others said, JRPGs are popular because of the J in them. If we want to play WRPGs, quite frankly there are so many titles a Japanese developer will never be able to compete. Cyberpunk and Witcher, Elder Scrolls, etc.

It kind of reminds me of the same condrum with the riske games. The games like Senran and Omega, are catered to a specific group, they want that nudity and ecchi. By trying to censor these games, to somehow appeal to a broader group, you alienate your core base for a non existant group that wasn't going to buy the game in the first place.
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ninjamitsuki



Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 415
Location: Anywhere (Thanks, technology)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:03 pm Reply with quote
Grimvice wrote:
#893017 wrote:
Grimvice - Bishounen and bishoujo are Tales' main selling point for me. Persona is a great game but the artwork isn't that pretty. Can't stand spending hours for playing when staring at ugly characters. It was the main reason I ditched Mass Effect trilogy, because the characters looked so disgusting (the fish like alien and the alien with ugly mouth/teeth in particular).


But that's all Tales Of has, the stories and game mechanics are lame. The stories and game mechanics of Persona and Mass Effect (at least the first two games) are consistently good.

Umm wut

I agree that the newer games like Zestiria and Graces are lacking, but Tales of Symphonia and Vesperia have some of the greatest stories of any game I've played. Even some friends of mine who hate JRPG cliches admit to the stories in Symphonia and Vesperia being great.

Also I think the gameplay (Minus Zestiria) is quite good, Graces may have lacked in the story department but it has one of my favorite battle systems in a game I've played. And I'm heavily enjoying Vesperia Definitive Edition even if it's not quite as flashy.


Last edited by ninjamitsuki on Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:10 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Ryuji-Dono



Joined: 26 Apr 2018
Posts: 128
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:03 pm Reply with quote
Skydrop wrote:
this really makes so call new tales of game is no different than any ordinary western action rpg. Most of (long running) franchise managed to continue their sequel or newer game with maintaining same appeal while making it fresh. RIP tales of franchise. It was fun while it lasted.


Please wait until the game is released instead of going with such premature judgment.
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HeWhoSlapsAll



Joined: 21 Dec 2015
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:39 pm Reply with quote
Tripple-A wrote:
"Western Audience Influenced Tales of Arise "
Now I'm extra cautious, I already thought I have to see a lot more before I could decide whether to buy it or not, but now I'm starting to think that it would be better to skip it entirely.

@Grimvice You seem to not even understand the appeal in Tales of. And talking about distinct style and elements in Final Fantasy is ridiculous. Final Fantasy is one of the most extreme examples of not having one style over the course of a series, the exact opposite of Dragon Quest. The USP of Tales of are the character and their interactions throughout the story, events and skits and yes this includes anime tropes and slapstic moments.
What's next, Neptunia without references, parodies and moe?


I don't get what's up with the hate of the Western influence. I mean, Vesperia was the last great Tales game. One of the reasons why the last 4-5 Tales games have had mixed reviews is due to the pathetic world building and bland un-interactive worlds. Western RPGs tend to flourish in the area. There's also the aspect of flexible morality and dialogue choices; aka, choices. Maybe they're taking influence from that. I'd love to see the world changing, the people reacting and how that affects the society's interactions with my characters. Something as simple as dialogue coices for skits and my choices affecting the MC's relationship with specific characters in the party, which could affect how said characters respond in major story beats would be amazing. Most JRPGs don't do that.

Also, based off the gameplay, or mainly the existence of dodge rolling, it seems like they're also taking cues from the more hack/slash action games, too. However, I do wonder what that means for the 4-man party system.

Tho, as I've said, the last 4-5 Tales games have been mixed, so regardless of any optimism I may have I'll stick to the wait and see approach. Need to see that combat, because that's just as important as the storytelling.
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HeWhoSlapsAll



Joined: 21 Dec 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:43 pm Reply with quote
ninjamitsuki wrote:
Grimvice wrote:
#893017 wrote:
Grimvice - Bishounen and bishoujo are Tales' main selling point for me. Persona is a great game but the artwork isn't that pretty. Can't stand spending hours for playing when staring at ugly characters. It was the main reason I ditched Mass Effect trilogy, because the characters looked so disgusting (the fish like alien and the alien with ugly mouth/teeth in particular).


But that's all Tales Of has, the stories and game mechanics are lame. The stories and game mechanics of Persona and Mass Effect (at least the first two games) are consistently good.

Umm wut

I agree that the newer games like Zestiria and Graces are lacking, but Tales of Symphonia and Vesperia have some of the greatest stories of any game I've played. Even some friends of mine who hate JRPG cliches admit to the stories in Symphonia and Vesperia being great.

Also I think the gameplay (Minus Zestiria) is quite good, Graces may have lacked in the story department but it has one of my favorite battle systems in a game I've played. And I'm heavily enjoying Vesperia Definitive Edition even if it's not quite as flashy.


You notice how you had to go back to Symphonia and Vesperia? Why not praise the games the came afterwards? Sounds like their formula has run it's course.
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ninjamitsuki



Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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Location: Anywhere (Thanks, technology)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:48 pm Reply with quote
HeWhoSlapsAll wrote:


You notice how you had to go back to Symphonia and Vesperia? Why not praise the games the came afterwards? Sounds like their formula has run it's course.

Well yeah, like I said they would be right if they were talking about the recent Tales games (I've heard good "return to form" things about Berseria, though, have yet to play it), but to put the ~entire~ series in such a light is... Hell, as I've stated even the recent games with lacking stories do have great gameplay, aside from Zestiria. And it's far from generic, I can't think of a single series that combines action combat with the classic JRPG format in such a seamless way.


Last edited by ninjamitsuki on Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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El Hermano



Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 139
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:31 am Reply with quote
HeWhoSlapsAll wrote:
You notice how you had to go back to Symphonia and Vesperia? Why not praise the games the came afterwards? Sounds like their formula has run it's course.


That sounds pretty hypocritical considering the amount of Elder Scrolls and Fallout fans I see constantly dump on Bethesda for their handling of those franchises for the past 10 years, and people insisting Witcher is the only good RPG game and keep bringing it up after half a decade.. The idea that Tales is bad because of "generic anime" is dumb because you can pigeonhole WRPGs into the "generic shooter" or "generic fantasy" labels like that. Cyberpunk, Deus Ex, Mass Effect, and Fallout are just generic futuristic shooters. Or Elder Scrolls and Witcher are generic Tolkien fantasies.

Please don't hold one person's nostalgia for Vesperia and Symphonia as a representation of the Tales fanbase. Those two are most well known in the west because of their marketing push and they came out when a lot of the western fanbase were children, so nostalgia is a big factor. My favorites in the franchise come before and after those titles: Eternia, Graces, and Zestira. All amazing games. The only Tales game I actually dislike is Legendia.
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TheWolfhart



Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:34 am Reply with quote
HeWhoSlapsAll wrote:


You notice how you had to go back to Symphonia and Vesperia? Why not praise the games the came afterwards? Sounds like their formula has run it's course.


The Vesperia Definitive Edition was the most recent release, which most people think it's the best game of the series, but the previous one was the newest core game Tales of Berseria and it was great too. It had a very good reception in case you want to compare personal opinion vs consensus.

It is my understanding that people enjoy the Tales of series because of the gameplay mechanics. I certainly do and it's one of my favorites overall. It is well known among other JRPGs to be action-oriented instead of turn-based. If you or anyone wants to call it generic then please point me to others with the same style of gameplay because I'd be more than happy to play them.
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ninjamitsuki



Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:43 am Reply with quote
Me saying Vesperia is good isn't nostalgia tho, I never got to play it until just now when Definitive Edition came out since I've never owned an Xbox (I'm still in the process of playing it, in fact), and the story is still wowing me.
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jellybeanbandit



Joined: 18 Jun 2019
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:42 am Reply with quote
Grimvice wrote:
Akiba Strip the Animation, Steins;gate, Rage of Bahamut, The [email protected]

It's rare, but to say that anime based off games are NEVER as good or even better than their games is ridiculous.


You miss out on so much story if you only watch the Steins;Gate anime. It's entertaining, but it's no substitute for playing the game. It's like the cliffnotes version you go over the night before your book report test instead of reading the book.

TheWolfhart wrote:
The Vesperia Definitive Edition was the most recent release, which most people think it's the best game of the series, but the previous one was the newest core game Tales of Berseria and it was great too. It had a very good reception in case you want to compare personal opinion vs consensus.

It is my understanding that people enjoy the Tales of series because of the gameplay mechanics. I certainly do and it's one of my favorites overall. It is well known among other JRPGs to be action-oriented instead of turn-based. If you or anyone wants to call it generic then please point me to others with the same style of gameplay because I'd be more than happy to play them.


Trying to play Vesperia again after Berseria is really hard for me. It's so stiff and slow compared to the more recent entries. Even Graces which came out a year later had a much more refined combat system than Vesperia, or at least the Graces F port did. I never played the original Wii version, maybe the Wii version was just as bad.

Gameplay is important but story and characters are also important for any RPG. Tales always has great characters. If someone doesn't like anime then I guess they don't like anime style characters and stories. But for those of us that do, Tales has kept that element which other franchises like Final Fantasy have lost over the years in their strive for more realism and down-to-earth characters.
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doctordoom85



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:56 am Reply with quote
This really doesn't have to be the automatic bad thing some people are assuming. Honestly, in terms of story, Tales could use some shaking up from where I left off. Now, I didn't play Zesteria or Berseria yet, but Graces' story was pretty lackluster (and half the cast were meh or just sucked in Cheria's case. Pascal was awesome though) and Xillia 1 felt like I was just seeing a poor copycat of most of the story elements from prior Tales games. Not to mention they've done the whole "everything the heroes believed to be true was a lie!" style of twist so many times in the series now it's become a cliche now.

Xillia 2, well I'll give it credit that it at least tried to make the cast of 1 a bit more developed, but I didn't care for the two new leads at all and re-using virtually all the environments was so lazy (don't care if it's the same world, have them go to a different continent or something, geezus).

It's not about disliking anime. Abyss, Vesperia, and Symphonia had generally good anime-style characters. Graces' cast was a mixed bag of quality, and Xillia's cast felt like they were just checking off a list of typical personality traits for the party with not much thought put into them.

It's pretty clear that the characters designs are still inspired a good deal by Japan as well so there's no reason to think this is going to be Tales of Witcher or Tales of Dragon Age.

Also, Xillia having mostly boring, open flat fields was LAME so hopefully an improved engine means we can see a more quality world like Dragon Quest or Xenoblade.
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hack5



Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 158
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:59 am Reply with quote
Sorry for me I think I am over the Tales series I find its lacking something I cant but my finger on it but maybe its the world building aspect it does not feel alive to me you know its dead and boring.The last tales game (I have not finish play by the way is) Vesperia while Yuri is a great protagonist the world they interact with is not interesting the sad thing about it is it could of been great if it had more space to grow and that is what plagues all the other tales series,I would admit I have been spoiled by the trails series with its fantastic world building that no other game could come close and I know its unfair comparing the two but tales series feel like a flavor of the year game cheap and undeveloped hopefully this one may be different.
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