Forum - View topic
INTEREST: Producer: Western Audience Influenced Tales of Arise


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TheWolfhart



Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:47 pm Reply with quote
jellybeanbandit wrote:
TheWolfhart wrote:
The Vesperia Definitive Edition was the most recent release, which most people think it's the best game of the series, but the previous one was the newest core game Tales of Berseria and it was great too. It had a very good reception in case you want to compare personal opinion vs consensus.

It is my understanding that people enjoy the Tales of series because of the gameplay mechanics. I certainly do and it's one of my favorites overall. It is well known among other JRPGs to be action-oriented instead of turn-based. If you or anyone wants to call it generic then please point me to others with the same style of gameplay because I'd be more than happy to play them.


Trying to play Vesperia again after Berseria is really hard for me. It's so stiff and slow compared to the more recent entries. Even Graces which came out a year later had a much more refined combat system than Vesperia, or at least the Graces F port did. I never played the original Wii version, maybe the Wii version was just as bad.

Gameplay is important but story and characters are also important for any RPG. Tales always has great characters. If someone doesn't like anime then I guess they don't like anime style characters and stories. But for those of us that do, Tales has kept that element which other franchises like Final Fantasy have lost over the years in their strive for more realism and down-to-earth characters.


Oh, Don't get me wrong, I do like the story and characters of the Tales games I've played and I agree that it's usually good on that front too. My point was that even if a Tales game were to have a generic story/characters, the gameplay is still great and as far as I know unique to the series.

As for the stiffness of Vesperia vs most recent games, I felt the same at the beginning but as I gained new artes and skills I got used to it and now I'm able to enjoy it just as I did before.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1698
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:15 pm Reply with quote
Did that Tales producer actually talk about Western *audiences* being an influence? Because by his quotes in the article, it looks and sounds to me like the Tales team pulled influences from Western game design, not so much from what they thought a Western audience would like. Hence, the adoption of Unreal and the more realistic open world systems they seem to be hinting at.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 3841
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:45 pm Reply with quote
#893017 wrote:
Grimvice - Bishounen and bishoujo are Tales' main selling point for me. Persona is a great game but the artwork isn't that pretty.


By the same token neither are the Tales games whose character designs are pretty average looking and don't stand out all that much.

#893017 wrote:
Can't stand spending hours for playing when staring at ugly characters. It was the main reason I ditched Mass Effect trilogy, because the characters looked so disgusting


Yeah while Bioware's animation is pretty infamous none of the characters in Mass Effect are (unintentionally) visually unappealing. also get this you're complaining about aliens.....who're aren't all supposed to look attractive.


#893017 wrote:
(the fish like alien and the alien with ugly mouth/teeth in particular).


I assume this is Mordin and Garrus......two of the most popular party members in the series.

#893017 wrote:

That being said, I feel like starting with FF13 the FF games have becoming more western, FF 15 they really pushed it,


How was 15 anymore western like than the first 5 games?


CrownKlown wrote:

It kind of reminds me of the same condrum with the riske games. The games like Senran and Omega, are catered to a specific group, they want that nudity and ecchi. By trying to censor these games, to somehow appeal to a broader group,


Except that's not why they're cutting certain aspects from the game though. These games have some creepy elements that of course even some of the people who like their gimmicks would consider problematic.

I mean hell Katsuragi's gimmick is that she likes to grope the other characters (something that almost no other character does) and she has a hatedom in the fanbase exclusively for that reason.


Last edited by BadNewsBlues on Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
partially



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 677
Location: Oz
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:59 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
Did that Tales producer actually talk about Western *audiences* being an influence? Because by his quotes in the article, it looks and sounds to me like the Tales team pulled influences from Western game design, not so much from what they thought a Western audience would like. Hence, the adoption of Unreal and the more realistic open world systems they seem to be hinting at.


That is also what I read it as. There really is nothing to appeal to western audiences here, apart from those that already play Japanese games. What they have seemingly done is pull some western game design (e.g. slightly caring about graphical quality, and possibly level design remains to be seen, and not being stuck in the JRPG design era roughly between PS2 and PS3). Which is nothing but a good thing, as Tales of has been stuck in a design rut of factory churned titles for a decade, and they should be looking to take advantage of things new technology allows. As for gameplay changes, I have seen nothing about changes there yet, this was just a cinematic trailer after all which is hardly something to base an opinion of a game off.

The other changes are namely stylistic ones, the armor is new, but at the same time, he barely wears it in the trailer. So a sort of odd choice. I would have liked the character to actually use Japanese armor (rather than generic exaggerated "MMO" European feudal armor), but Japan seems extremely averse to including their own history in games unless they are directly about history, despite their history being full of intricate and elaborate armors and costumes. And the game is darker in tone, but that is something already started by Berseria and hardly a "western" thing as there are plenty of dark Japanese games.

This seems to me to be more just a facelift, rather than the sweeping changes that were FF13 or 15. All in all I am cautiously optimistic about this game. It may be the breath of fresh air Tales of needed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
shabu shabu



Joined: 25 Jan 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Tokyo
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:00 pm Reply with quote
doctordoom85 wrote:
This really doesn't have to be the automatic bad thing some people are assuming.
Japanese community always consider it as a bad thing. Fans were not happy with Star Ocean 5 and expressed complaints at Square-Enix for it. Ogawa san said western gamers do not enjoy watching cutscenes or seeing panties so he removed cutscenes and add bigger panties to a character in the game. Fans disliked how linear FF13 was which were made because Toriyama-san said linear games like Call of Duty were popular in the west and western fans did not enjoy going into towns and buying items, exploring towns and talking to people. Western gamers want constant action and a linear path to follow that is full of action. Both fans and game developers have been criticizing all of Sony for adopting American sensibilities about game content. Games that borrow from the west are heavily criticized by the fans here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ChestPains



Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 100
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:11 pm Reply with quote
shabu shabu wrote:
doctordoom85 wrote:
This really doesn't have to be the automatic bad thing some people are assuming.
Japanese community always consider it as a bad thing. Fans were not happy with Star Ocean 5 and expressed complaints at Square-Enix for it. Ogawa san said western gamers do not enjoy watching cutscenes or seeing panties so he removed cutscenes and add bigger panties to a character in the game. Fans disliked how linear FF13 was which were made because Toriyama-san said linear games like Call of Duty were popular in the west and western fans did not enjoy going into towns and buying items, exploring towns and talking to people. Western gamers want constant action and a linear path to follow that is full of action. Both fans and game developers have been criticizing all of Sony for adopting American sensibilities about game content. Games that borrow from the west are heavily criticized by the fans here.


The "western" influence is the setting.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steelmirror



Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 269
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:09 pm Reply with quote
shabu shabu wrote:
Western gamers want constant action and a linear path to follow that is full of action.
Yeah, because the big difference between the current Big Thing in Western touchstone fantasy games like Skyrim are how linear and relentlessly on rails they are, versus all those good old Tales games which are widely known for their branching, wide open worlds that can be explored in any order and let the player basically control what the plot, characters, even goals of the game are.

Wait.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Snomaster1
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 2168
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:37 am Reply with quote
If you want my viewpoint,I don't have a problem with it. I may not be a gamer,but I don't have a problem with this. If I were a gamer,I'd be willing to wait until this game came out. Who knows? It just might be a success. You never know.

Last edited by Snomaster1 on Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Feli1



Joined: 25 Dec 2017
Posts: 196
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:45 am Reply with quote
idk why there’s so much butt hurt over this I personally am liking the direction this franchise is taking I always found most of the older tales games pretty generic and messy anyways
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Commander Cluck



Joined: 02 May 2019
Posts: 70
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:34 am Reply with quote
Tales of Arise using Unreal Engine just makes me think of all those fan mockups of Mario and Zelda games using Unreal assets. It doesn't look quite as bad as a fan mock up, but I really dislike the Unreal engine's aesthetics. Kingdom Hearts 3 just looked off. This game also looks off.

steelmirror wrote:
shabu shabu wrote:
Western gamers want constant action and a linear path to follow that is full of action.
Yeah, because the big difference between the current Big Thing in Western touchstone fantasy games like Skyrim are how linear and relentlessly on rails they are, versus all those good old Tales games which are widely known for their branching, wide open worlds that can be explored in any order and let the player basically control what the plot, characters, even goals of the game are.

Wait.


Final Fantasy XIII predates Skyrim by 2 years. Believe it or not, open world games weren't always a thing in the western market. Remember, this was early PS3/360 era. Think Gears of War, Bioshock, Call of Duty, Halo. Hell, Fallout 3 had barely came out a year before Final Fantasy XIII did. Even today, there's still plenty of linear games like Uncharted, Last of Us and Call of Duty, God of War, Tomb Raider. Some of them might have slightly open hub areas to explore at times, but they're largely linear experiences. Or as they usually call them, cinematic experiences.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
doctordoom85



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1982
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:47 am Reply with quote
Commander Cluck wrote:
Final Fantasy XIII predates Skyrim by 2 years. Believe it or not, open world games weren't always a thing in the western market. Remember, this was early PS3/360 era. Think Gears of War, Bioshock, Call of Duty, Halo. Hell, Fallout 3 had barely came out a year before Final Fantasy XIII did. Even today, there's still plenty of linear games like Uncharted, Last of Us and Call of Duty, God of War, Tomb Raider. Some of them might have slightly open hub areas to explore at times, but they're largely linear experiences. Or as they usually call them, cinematic experiences.


Okay, but Elder Scrolls 3 and 4 came out well before Final Fantasy XIII.

Also, what, there suddenly aren't linear Japanese games? I didn't realize Legend of Zelda was so heavily western-inspired until Breath of the Wild came out. Metal Gear, what a completely western series until the 5th game. And we all know Japanese game fans hate the Resident Evil and Silent Hill series.

Seriously, see how quickly these generalizations fall apart? Also, funny thing, The Last of Us, an EXTREMELY Western game, sold very well in Japan, and that was in spite of its CERO Z rating which normally hurts sales in Japan.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Commander Cluck



Joined: 02 May 2019
Posts: 70
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:48 pm Reply with quote
doctordoom85 wrote:
Okay, but Elder Scrolls 3 and 4 came out well before Final Fantasy XIII.


They did, but they also weren't that popular. Morrowind sold less than 1 million copies, and Oblivion only did a bit better at about 3 million sales over 5 years before Skyrim was released. The Elder Scrolls did not become a huge property until Skyrim, which for whatever reason was to one to catch people's attention and go on to sell 7 million in the first week and over 10 million within the first year.

Quote:
Also, what, there suddenly aren't linear Japanese games? I didn't realize Legend of Zelda was so heavily western-inspired until Breath of the Wild came out. Metal Gear, what a completely western series until the 5th game. And we all know Japanese game fans hate the Resident Evil and Silent Hill series.

Seriously, see how quickly these generalizations fall apart? Also, funny thing, The Last of Us, an EXTREMELY Western game, sold very well in Japan, and that was in spite of its CERO Z rating which normally hurts sales in Japan.


Just to be clear I'm just trying to piece the context of when FFXIII was in development and released. Yeah, there were linear and open world games in both markets you could find, but I think looking back at the statistics I can see their logic on why it made sense at the time based on what games were selling. The best selling games in 2006 were Madden 07, New Super Mario Bros, and Gears of War. In 2007 it was Halo 3, Wii Play, and Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. In 2008 it was all Wii Sports/Fit/Play stuff, and then in 2009 it was Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 and Wii stuff. Even following XIII's release you had Call of Duty: Black Ops, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, and Call of Duty: Black Ops 2 being the best selling games of 2010, 2011, 2012 respectively. So even Skyrim couldn't dethrone the Call of Duty franchise. If the team had the same trend chasing stance now, they'd make Final Fantasy a Battle Royal, or a games as a service title with lootboxes and I'm sure people would completely understand why they did it, even if we'd all hate it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 7865
Location: IL
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:44 pm Reply with quote
if they wanted to chase the Call of Duty crowd they would have made a shooter. I really don't know why you keep bringing it up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HeWhoSlapsAll



Joined: 21 Dec 2015
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:46 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
Did that Tales producer actually talk about Western *audiences* being an influence? Because by his quotes in the article, it looks and sounds to me like the Tales team pulled influences from Western game design, not so much from what they thought a Western audience would like. Hence, the adoption of Unreal and the more realistic open world systems they seem to be hinting at.


That's what I got from the interview.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HeWhoSlapsAll



Joined: 21 Dec 2015
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:55 pm Reply with quote
El Hermano wrote:
HeWhoSlapsAll wrote:
You notice how you had to go back to Symphonia and Vesperia? Why not praise the games the came afterwards? Sounds like their formula has run it's course.


That sounds pretty hypocritical considering the amount of Elder Scrolls and Fallout fans I see constantly dump on Bethesda for their handling of those franchises for the past 10 years, and people insisting Witcher is the only good RPG game and keep bringing it up after half a decade.. The idea that Tales is bad because of "generic anime" is dumb because you can pigeonhole WRPGs into the "generic shooter" or "generic fantasy" labels like that. Cyberpunk, Deus Ex, Mass Effect, and Fallout are just generic futuristic shooters. Or Elder Scrolls and Witcher are generic Tolkien fantasies.

Please don't hold one person's nostalgia for Vesperia and Symphonia as a representation of the Tales fanbase. Those two are most well known in the west because of their marketing push and they came out when a lot of the western fanbase were children, so nostalgia is a big factor. My favorites in the franchise come before and after those titles: Eternia, Graces, and Zestira. All amazing games. The only Tales game I actually dislike is Legendia.


Is this directed at me? I never mentioned Tales being "generic anime". I'm talking specifically world design and storytelling mechanics. I talked specifically that in my longer post.

Speaking of Witcher 3, I wish we got the addictive Tales combat, with the Witcher 3 level of world design and storytelling. If that's the general area they're aiming for, then I'm down.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group