Forum - View topic"Get In The Robot, Shinji"
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#897462
Posts: 1 |
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Well first off, saying people "have an empathy problem" as a way of calling out people as insensitive to mental illness is pretty ironic. Many mental illnesses including PTSD and depression suffer from expressing and feeling empathy as a symptom. Second, there is a whole lot to be said of the idea that the joke around Shinji and "getting in the [expletive] robot" can be an acknowledgement of the horror of the situation in a light of dark humor. That yes, some people may not get it, but some people do. The idea that a boy should just accept a situation like that is pretty messed up when you think about the people that think he should "just deal with it". It's a societal pattern of denial of pain and suffering that also generally comes from those suffering the same pain. We can really instead write a whole article on "the societal implications of ableism and mental health of people who laugh at the more visibly ill". That's just my two cents.
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Zetabag
 Posts: 205 |
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To be fair, he didn't run away at every opportunity. While Shinji starts out whiny in the beginning, after episode 5 Shinji comes around to accept his situation and willingly pilots the EVA with little to no complaints. This is at least partially due to him getting emotional support from those around him (he even gets praised by Gendo once) as well as battle support from Rei and Asuka. Throughout the middle of the series, Shinji is hardly the whiny brat that he is known for being. Major spoilers for episodes 18-23 spoiler[ Shinji's situation starts taking a turn for the worst around episode 18 when Gendo hijacks unit 1 to destroy Unit 3 which was taken over by the 13th angel. This nearly kills Toji (Shinji's friend from school) and causes Shinji to briefly leave Nerve. Despite this, Shinji comes back to defeat the 14th angel. However, the 14th angel wipes out nearly all of nerves defense systems and heavily damages Unit 00 and 02 which increases the burden on Shinji. Unfortunately, things do not get any easier from there. Kaji (Misato's boyfriend) is killed by Nerve, and Asuka becomes more hostile and withdrawn and is unable to pilot Unit 02 after fighting the 15th Angel. Rei sacrifices herself to stop the 16th angel, but ends up destroying unit 00 and most of Tokyo, which forces all of Shinji's friends from school to leave the area. Shinji then learns the truth about the Rei clones in a pretty horrifying way thanks to Ritsuko who has pretty much gone insane at this point. Misato is unable to provide emotional support due to her nerve job requiring more of her time and probably due to dealing with the death of Kaji. Finally, just as Shinji finds a new friend in Kaworu it turns out he is the 17th Angel and Shinji is forced to kill him. So by the end of the TV series, there is pretty much no one left to give Shinji any support as the situation around him becomes worse than it ever has. ] |
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Mongoose
Posts: 6 |
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I've never once heard or said 'Get in the robot Shinji' didn't even know this was a thing. My issue with Shinji was always once he was in bot, he'd hesitate, question, and say I mustn't run away. It's one thing to be depressed and feel worthless and all that jazz (I do it most days) But if you are going to commit to something, don't hesitate, do it.
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kotomikun
Posts: 1205 |
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I haven't really heard the "get in the robot" meme used like this, either, but I think the article was mainly using that as a metaphor for how people hate on Shinji for having psychological problems. Which, as you know, is something people do quite often... I don't think it's directly related to ableism and such, though. The main reason people react like this to Evangelion is because, for most of them, it's their first experience of a classical anti-hero, outside of tragic plays they had to read in high school. Main characters in movies and cartoons are almost always role models, or idealized versions of ourselves. (Unless it's a comedy.) Seeing almost the exact opposite of that is jarring, and many people are bound to react poorly to it. But, however much people complain about Eva, the stuff they're griping about is the only reason it was so influential, still being talked about decades later. That's probably a better positive message for Shinji than anything the show itself came up with. Clearly he's far less worthless than he thinks. |
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prime_pm
 Posts: 2336 Location: Your Mother's Bedroom |
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Okay, I just finished watching the first 6 episodes of the Netflix dub. Now the words "mixed bag" are thrown around nowadays, but if the shoe fits.
There are parts of the dialogue that fits better than in the original, and parts that do not fit as well. I will concede that Misato's new voice is the best thing; I never felt Alison Keith imparted the role best no offense to her personally. The new actress just has better dialogue. Shinji is...different. I mean, because the script seems to stick with the original Japanese, the tone feels much more serious everywhere like in the Japanese. This means Shinji's new voice is less dynamic than Spike's performance yet arguably better fitting for the role of a psychologically damaged adolescent. However in scenes with Rei Ayanami, who is fittingly monotone, Shinji feels almost as lifeless as Rei so much it was fairly difficult to differentiate between the two besides voice pitch. Overall, it's...interesting to say the least. Still haven't gotten to Asuka yet. I'm hoping her big scene in 22 doesn't disappoint. We'll see. And yes, just not the same without Fly Me To the Moon. |
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Gray Lensman
Posts: 143 |
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I'm wondering how much those rights were going to cost. If the cost was "Netflix has to settle for 99 bajillion dollars instead of 100 bajillion" they look bad - but if the cost is more along the lines of "so high that by getting them you ensure you will NEVER make a profit off of this" it's a vastly different story. Or, how close to either extreme is it? Sadly, we are unlikely to ever really find out. |
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AmpersandsUnited
Posts: 633 |
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According to various sources, including the voice actors, the translation is being overseen by Khara themselves and they're using their own in-house translators. It's understandable that people might be upset at the changes, but that disappointment should be directed at ADV who were the ones deceiving people for over 25 years by insisting their changes were an accurate reflection of the series. If they wanted to use the old ADV script and translations then they certainly would have, but they specifically chose translations that would fit more in line with the original Japanese version of the show. Considering this was supposed to be a worldwide release, it makes sense to have everything uniform and consistent, and not letting any one version being an outlier. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6867 Location: Kazune City |
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Looks like going for global streaming rights isn't always the best idea. Maybe they could've afforded the song if they'd stuck with the US/Canada or just English-speaking territories.
Though I'd be more curious about how ep 16 looks on Netflix, as that episode was upscaled due to lost/damaged film stock. |
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SheRrIs
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 Netflix with all their money couldn't afford the rights to a single song. This is laughable. They should have never ventured into anime if they are going to provide substandard releases.  I agree it's heretical. It seems that the best way to experience Eva is still through fansubs.
Remember, Jesus died for your sins because HE LIKES YOU. Eh. Doesn't compute. |
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killjoy_the
 Posts: 2459 |
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Oh yeah, screw those other countries, the music is a lot more important than making this anime available world wide. Now I'm glad other countries' releases got the song, just to spite you. |
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Crpt774
Posts: 12 |
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Personally, to those complaining about Shinji, I just point out that he feels what the eva feels.
So by the end of episode 1, he's had his eye poked out and been blown up. By about episode 5 (maybe 6? its been a while) he's been boiled alive (twice over) and been run through, etc etc. Plus in episode 1, "You've dragged me half way across the country. To pilot a giant robot. against something that just obliterated the ARMY without ANY effort. And you aren't even going to explain why none of the other infinitely more trained people in this room can't pilot it? Just Get in the robot, Gendo." Seriously though, do they ever actually explain why they don't have any of the trained military looking people in the room pilot it to him early on? Can't help. And has anyone else ever found it odd that an organisation charged with protecting the world doesn't pay one of their top suits enough to actually buy a car? Got to wonder what being a pilot brings in. |
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chronos02
Posts: 267 |
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This always annoyed me, people that never watched the show being d***s about how if it were them, they'd simply f*** Misato since they were living with her or s**** Rei and Asuka for the same reason, or why was Shinji such a coward when it came to the Eva or facing the Angels... they took the anime at face value, and more than that, they didn't even pay attention to the plot or the character's backstories. Then they kept saying western TV was much better because men were real men and women were courageous and whatnot, it was honestly very annoying, to the point I stopped hanging around with those people (most of them even started to separate themselves and got lost in life, Karma I call it).
The thing about the "get in the fuc·king robot Shinji" is something I never heard around these parts (for one, in my country the word fu·ck was not part of the translation, being replaced with "damn" instead). And it's my first time seeing those shirts too, that was surprising, heh. Also, regarding the whole Netflix ordeal... I might be wrong on this, but afaik, anime is licensed as a package, this includes everything that composes the anime as it was intended by the creators of the show, including Openings, Endings, and all the soundtrack -as is- (as it was recorded into the episodes, not as standalone tracks). I do know opening and ending songs used to be left out in some instances, but that was back in the early 90s. What's more, I'm pretty sure that, because of all the random changes that western publishers made to the Japanese TV anime they licensed, most, if not all, the Japanese licensors and owners of content to be licensed added strict guidelines to the contracts, stipulating that any changes to the shows were outright prohibited, or, in some cases, would need approval from them. This means that changing the ending, and most importantly, parts of the episodes in NGE because they had FMTTM, must have been approved by Khara. At the same time, the old contracts for licensing content overseas were bound to physical and broadcast mediums, more so for a show from 1995, and those contracts were in turn tied to the contracts GAINAX at the time did with all the music labels and/or companies (whoever handles FMTTM), which means that for a new medium, such as streaming, those old contracts were useless and they'd need to sign new ones (unless the contract specifically stated otherwise, which would be quite strange). All this results in what we have seen (most likely anyway), obtaining global distribution rights for a famous song such as Frank Sinatra's FMTTM must be incredibly expensive, and if it's for streaming, even more so. However, it is still somewhat strange that those countries that already had NGE circulating through them in an official manner didn't get the same content as back then, even with a different distribution medium. I suspect all of this is the result of more factors than just Netflix being unable to obtain those rights, and the changes in the medium not being aligned with old contracts. Khara being a "new" company unrelated to GAINAX, and GAINAX going almost bankrupt a few years back are probably the root of all this, or at least they partially responsible for the situation. It's important to remember than GAINAX was mismanaged for many years after NGE revived them, and it's more than likely that it caused more than one company with relations with GAINAX to cut ties or at least be quite annoyed at the whole ordeal; then the fact Anno left GAINAX to fund Khara, because he was not satisfied with how GAINAX had been handling things for many years, taking with him the rights to any new show made with the NGE trademark and all of its assets, which he later complimented by acquiring all the NGE content from GAINAX. It's plain obvious this whole situation was not ideal, and many people were probably quite sour about it, be it within or outside the directly related parties. This is probably the reason why NGE was missing many years from the shelves across the world, negotiating new contracts was a nightmare. Like it or not, Netflix stepped in and "fixed" the situation (with not enough effort, if we go by the fan's eyes, and mine, honestly), they have managed to distribute it globally, and since they added the "Original" into the show, it means those rights are there to stay. I doubt Funimation would have fared this well even within the USA only (it wouldn't have reached where I am, so honestly, good riddance). What they should have done is to include the original dubs in any country the show had been available in, as well as the original subtitles, they own the rights to those dubs from what I have heard, so there is absolutely no reason to not include them as an optional track (safe for image reasons, ok). Also, there should NOT be ANY reason to remove the FMTTM segments that are inserted into the episodes, those ARE part of the anime itself and aren't separated like OP and ED are. Rant over. Sorry if it isn't very well organised and if it feels like I'm bouncing between stances, I wrote this as I thought. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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First, thanks for your very insightful comments and kind words. IMO Shinji's characterization comes from depression so crushing that you don't want to be given a purpose because your self-hatred has consumed you and you don't believe you're capable of anything at all, worthy of nothing. You want to fade away. If an authority figure tells you to do something, you do it, even if it's abusive, even if it's destroying you, even if you're convinced you can't, because it's the only thing you have to hang on to - but you still don't want to do it because you don't trust yourself with anything. He has no sense of self through most of the series - he is trapped inside that obliterating depression, and can be used like a tool by anyone who gives him "purpose" by command or shows him any remote affection. Evangelion 2.22 touches on this very directly. There is a level of narcissism in that kind of self-hatred - a type of self-obsession. He is very selfish about his feelings a lot of the time, and a lot of depressed people are like this. It's a side of it that people don't talk about very often, but it's accurate, and Evangelion touches on it (probably another thing that makes people uncomfortable about Shinji). Depression of that sticky, thick variety makes people unpleasant to be around, and thus Shinji is not a traditionally "likable" character, I don't think - and that comes as the result of the portrayal of his depression being warts-and-all.
Inasmuch as I relate to Shinji and have experienced his type of bottomless-pit capital A- Anxiety and capital-D Depression before, many times, I agree with this sentiment - and it's true for me too. I didn't really learn how to pull out of that sort of depression until I managed to prove to myself that I am worth something, that I am capable (I did this by losing ~120lbs in the gym over the span of about a year and a half) and once I did that, now I can see things Simon's way, because I proved to myself I am capable. I CAN do things. So now I have that arrow in my quiver - proof that all I have to do is what I already know I'm capable of, and I can thrive again. Simon is a real inspiration in that regard, and it is a healthier message. But before I proved that to myself, boy, I was stuck in some Shinji-kun spiraling bullshit. And Evangelion is an unflinching look at what that sort of depression looks, sounds and feels like - and it's so accurate and speaks so clearly to people going through it, people I have bottomless empathy for, that I will champion it until I'm dead, hah. |
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Takkun4343
 Posts: 1499 Location: Englewood, Ohio |
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That, plus spoiler[the EVA Unit-01 technically isn't even a robot].
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Usagi-kun
 Posts: 877 Location: Nashville, TN |
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This was a really good article, and thank-you for highlighting it with your own empathy, Zac. Shinji has been a controversial protagonist since the beginning, but I don't believe he is ambiguous in his afflictions. I want to add as yet another person in this thread who has suffered from depression, my beef with his actions in the start of the series came from a cold-hearted jealousy---Shinji found himself thrust into a fantastical situation where he was handed the keys to literal, physical embodiment of power and a chance to save the world. At the time I first watched Evangelion, I would have gladly cast off any cruelty in favor of regaining control over my own destiny: suicide and obscurity. I also tended to worry and despair over the state of the world and what I could do to change it if only I had the power. This is romanticized and unrealistic, I can now admit, only years after all the mistakes I made in my youth. While not blaming someone with depression for their emotions, depression can also be very selfish when your perspective is only insular. Having friends and loved ones, unlike Shinji at the start of the series, was a luxury in my life I could not see at the time; the way Anno wove this into his character is an uncomfortable distinction and deliberate part of his genius.
"Get in the [expletive] robot, Shinji." Would have been my battle cry, a callous, desperate, and selfish one. It also constitutes one of the big reasons I started watching anime to begin with: a whole lot of youthful kids saving the world, having fun, and fighting heartbreak in equal strides. I've grown as a person, since and in respect to shows like Evangelion, and can now admit Shinji reacted in a far more emotionally honest and realistic way than I did at the time. Although, doing nothing and internalizeing pain and sorrow will not protect you from conflict forever. This was a great perspective piece and I hope ANN will do more of them. The depth of these discussions are a strength of this site and chance to be unique. Thanks for listening. |
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