Forum - View topic
REVIEW: Neon Genesis Evangelion


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 1583
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:40 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Evangelion is most certainly a show aimed at young children. The first posts mentions Evangelion and the American Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon both shared the same timeslot. They were both aimed at the same demographic and mostly watched by children when they first came out here back in the middle of the 1990s.
Evangelion was marketed towards kids in Japan yet Japanese TV will censor shows that actually do air late night that are targeted at adult otaku. I don't think I"ll ever understand Japan's standards.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ethe



Joined: 10 Jun 2017
Posts: 154
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:40 am Reply with quote
shabu shabu wrote:

Evangelion is most certainly a show aimed at young children. The first posts mentions Evangelion and the American Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon both shared the same timeslot. They were both aimed at the same demographic and mostly watched by children when they first came out here back in the middle of the 1990s.


See, this is why the timeslot argument just doesn't hold up. When deciding what shows are good for little children to watch, one should look at the content of the show itself rather than the timeslot it originally aired in.

If they aired a horror movie during in the same timeslot as TMNT, would that suddenly make it a kids' movie?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 13712
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:52 pm Reply with quote
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:

yet Japanese TV will censor shows that actually do air late night that are targeted at adult otaku. I don't think I"ll ever understand Japan's standards.


Cynically, ya could look at it that the TV version is censored so they can better sell the uncensored Blu-ray version. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Heishi



Joined: 06 Mar 2016
Posts: 974
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:49 am Reply with quote
Haven't seen this one yet.
Plan on doing it soon since I do seem to like that Misato person.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ali07



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 3249
Location: Victoria, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:54 am Reply with quote
killjoy_the wrote:
Ali07 wrote:
Still, don't know if I'll end up checking out manga before anime in this case, as the hunt for discs will likely be harder (due to prices).


Well I'm assuming the Netflix subscription is a lot cheaper than buying the manga Razz

I read the manga after watching the anime and EoE. It's pretty good, and expands on a couple of things while brushing off some others. If you're particularly interested in alternate endings I find the manga's to be the most optimistic one.

It definitely is, and I'm already subscribed. Thing is, for shows that I want to rewatch, I have a preference of owning them on disc.

NGE does seem like a show that, due to it being out of print, price is a bit steep. Certainly not saying I can't afford a set, just...the initial impact of the purchase would hurt my wallet. Right now my wallet is going to take a hit, as I'm planning on pre-ordering the Kotobukiya Miku Nakano PVC (place I order you have to pay up front, but get a $20 discount when you pre-order early).

And, yes, alternate endings do interest me. I kinda know how the anime ends, along with the movie (though can't say I fully understand it, but I also haven't a true context on the story overall), so I would like to check out the manga. I've not read up on how the manga ends, just know it is different.

But, yeah, Netflix will be the first option I'll go with. The discs do interest me, seeing as they have a different sub/dub. If I like the anime, would like the 2nd watch to be the discs. I've been wanting to check out the movie series, just waiting to see if the next one really is the last or not. Long time between drinks for the movies, and I kinda don't want to start something that could have years left for the finale.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Crispy45



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 242
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:53 pm Reply with quote
Cardcaptor Takato wrote:
Evangelion was marketed towards kids in Japan yet Japanese TV will censor shows that actually do air late night that are targeted at adult otaku. I don't think I"ll ever understand Japan's standards.


Evangelion is often theorized as the show that took things to far and resulted in Japanese television networks cracking down on content in the anime they air following it's airing. You can see a shift in what was allowed in shows in the late 90s to present day and the early 90s and 80s. Full nudity and extreme gore, for example

Ethe wrote:
See, this is why the timeslot argument just doesn't hold up. When deciding what shows are good for little children to watch, one should look at the content of the show itself rather than the timeslot it originally aired in.

If they aired a horror movie during in the same timeslot as TMNT, would that suddenly make it a kids' movie?


Content seems like a bad way thing to look at IMO. Plenty of seinen and josei have virtually zero objectionable content but they're aimed at adults because they're a serious take on storytelling. Meanwhile you see plenty of shounen which are absolute gorefests and their main appeal is the cool battles and fanservice.

But content is subjective especially between the west and Japan. Westerners will see Lum getting her top ripped off as horrific misogynistic sexual exploitation while Japan saw it as comedic slapstick humor. Or the concept of public bathing where a bunch of guys are in a bath together would be seen as 'gay' in America, or 'pedo' if it's a father and his young kid like in Totoro. But in Japan it's not even an issue that crosses peoples minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 1583
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:33 pm Reply with quote
Crispy45 wrote:


Evangelion is often theorized as the show that took things to far and resulted in Japanese television networks cracking down on content in the anime they air following it's airing. You can see a shift in what was allowed in shows in the late 90s to present day and the early 90s and 80s. Full nudity and extreme gore, for example

Though Gundam SEED was still pushing the limits even as late in 2002 when it got complaints from media watchdog groups for airing an implied sex scene during a primetime slot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gurren Rodan



Joined: 04 Jan 2018
Posts: 140
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:10 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
EternalNothingness wrote:


Can anyone explain to me what wrong lessons did other anime learn from Evangelion, and what were the actual right lessons they could have learned from the series, instead?


Just as a broad stab in the dark? Wrong lesson: that romantic interests are there not to exist as fully fledged people, but as props for the main character that only occasionally get their own lives and problems to wrangle with.

This is more a vibe I get than anything concrete, but Eva always seems pretty careful to demonstrate that these people's lives don't really revolve around each other the same way a bevy of beauties might revolve around a shonen MC--if you cut them all loose to do their own things, Eva's characters all seem like they could go on to live full, heavily dysfunctional lives of their own. I don't really get that impression from other anime of Eva's time (though I'm sure there are exceptions), and I do think there has been some work done to make more fully fleshed out side characters in series nowadays.

See also:
Eva: "Escapism is bad; don't run from reality!"
Anime industry: "We need even MOAR escapism!!!!"


Sometimes I think Studio Gainax and Khara themselves learned the wrong lesson from NGE - or at least, had their cake and ate it too - when looking at how much merchandise they've made off of Rei and Asuka (other characters too, but especially those two). For a show that seemed to deliver "fanservice" with a self-aware awkwardness, the studio(s) and partners have few qualms selling out their fictional girls.


I think Studio Trigger's last two collaborative projects - Darling in the FranXX and SSSS.GRIDMAN - are also a couple of good examples on how shows imitate NGE wrong and right, respectively.

DitF imitated NGE in certain actions and ideas, while also providing strong atmosphere and aesthetics; but its muddled worldbuilding and plot development ultimately seemed to get in the way of the arcs for the characters, who weren't always thoughtfully or consistently written themselves (whereas the characters in NGE arguably stayed consistently in focus regardless of other subplot shenanigans).

GRIDMAN, on the other hand, not only bore a similar sense of atmosphere, aesthetic, and even a bit of nuance, but successfully told an introspective character drama overlaid by a passionate love letter to its tokusatsu inspirations. GRIDMAN wasn't nearly as intense or as psychologically deep as NGE, but it understood it's focuses as a show and delivered them, with no expense to any other aspects of its story or characters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ethe



Joined: 10 Jun 2017
Posts: 154
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:24 am Reply with quote
Crispy45 wrote:
content is subjective especially between the west and Japan.


Now this, I can agree with. However:

Crispy45 wrote:
Content seems like a bad way thing to look at IMO. Plenty of seinen and josei have virtually zero objectionable content but they're aimed at adults because they're a serious take on storytelling.


It's not necessarily a matter of whether or not the content is objectionable. When it comes to giving shows a rating, rather than thinking "will this piece of media traumatize kids" (which should definitely be taken into account with certain movies/shows), we should ask ourselves "does this piece of media deal with topics that kids will be able to grasp/process/appreciate?", and most importantly "how does this piece of media explore those topics?"

Looking at it from that angle, I hardly doubt your average 7 year old will be interested in themes such as death drive, teenage sexuality, depression, etc., especially when they are explored through such unconventional and sometimes challenging forms of storytelling, like in Evangelion.

That's not to say kids shouldn't watch or wouldn't like Evangelion per se. On the contrary, it seems to be loved by people of all ages in Japan. But if kids love it, it's probably because they think the characters and robot fights are cool.

You mention seinen in your post, and I think OPM is a good example to bring up here. Sure, kids probably find it funny how Saitama is able to kill all those monsters with one punch, and they enjoy seeing all the cool fights, but I think we can both agree that the last thing on their minds when coming out of the show is the struggle with the ennui of adulthood.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ggultra2764
Collector ExtraordinaireCollector Extraordinaire


Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 3382
Location: New York state.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:01 pm Reply with quote
One question I have to ask on Netflix's streaming of Eva. For episodes 21-24, I recall there were original broadcast and Director's Cut versions of the episodes released when ADV originally had rights to the series, with the latter featuring reanimated content and incorporating deleted scenes featured in Death and Rebirth of Eva. Does the Netflix release use the broadcast version or Director's Cut version of those episodes?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Shay Guy



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1022
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:00 am Reply with quote
Lord Geo wrote:
If by that you mean "show for otaku that we can shill our later VHS & LD releases, plus other products related to these anime", then sure. Late-night anime was made into a thing precisely for one reason: To shill products related to said anime (manga, novels, swag, VHS, laserdisc, DVD, Blu-Ray, etc.) that they want otaku to buy. It wasn't because people wanted to air similar content as Eva, necessarily. Considering when Eva was re-run in late-night in 1997, that very re-run was pretty much to help remind otaku that Death & Rebirth & End of Evangelion were coming to theaters. Also, the "Eva Clone" phenomenon didn't start until 1998, when Brain Powerd debuted on WOWOW (&, by Tomino's admission, he didn't even conceive of it as a response to Eva, though he conceded that people would compare the two), so to say that late-night was made for Eva-esque anime would be a fair bit off. In fact, BP wasn't even a late-night anime, technically, as it aired on a satellite service.


I know Those Who Hunt Elves and its immediate successors aren't exactly Eva-like, but that doesn't mean producers weren't thinking of the audience for those shows -- otaku who would be willing to stay up late, or record on a VCR, and buy the tapes and LDs and merch -- as "the Eva market", much like an American book publisher in the late 2000s might think of their new YA title as being aimed at "the Twilight market". I don't know how Eva affected companies' estimates of the size and expected purchasing behavior of the otaku population.

Ethe wrote:
See, this is why the timeslot argument just doesn't hold up. When deciding what shows are good for little children to watch, one should look at the content of the show itself rather than the timeslot it originally aired in.

If they aired a horror movie during in the same timeslot as TMNT, would that suddenly make it a kids' movie?


For that matter, I'd posit that Yuuna and the Haunted Hot Springs is aimed at a much older audience than The Last Saiyuki, despite the fact that they run in the exact same magazine. Readers interested in one aren't expected to be interested in the other.

"6:30 PM on a weekday" is flexible enough to catch either younger kids or high-schoolers (who, I dunno, really liked Nadia and Exkaiser as kids), depending on the content.

Ggultra2764 wrote:
One question I have to ask on Netflix's streaming of Eva. For episodes 21-24, I recall there were original broadcast and Director's Cut versions of the episodes released when ADV originally had rights to the series, with the latter featuring reanimated content and incorporating deleted scenes featured in Death and Rebirth of Eva. Does the Netflix release use the broadcast version or Director's Cut version of those episodes?


It's the Director's Cut.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group