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Answerman - How Have Anime Conventions Changed Over Time?


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jellybeanbandit



Joined: 18 Jun 2019
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:58 am Reply with quote
maximilianjenus wrote:
I predate the internet and for me the changes are far bigger.

Before the internet conventions were the only place to get new anime-related material, legal or otherwise. Internet killed the conventions because it made it so anybody could download/share anime related media.


Biggest difference between younger fans and older fans. Now with the internet I can buy and import whatever the heck I want for much cheaper. Or stream and download all the anime one could ask for. I remember people selling those Hong Kong bootleg DVDs at cons back in the day for absurdly low prices and it was a steal and the only watch to watch some shows even with questionably bad subtitles. Or importing a Japanese PlayStation game that never came out here.

Conventions used to be a lawless wild west. I remember when VAs had their own fanclubs and they would literally fight in the halls or on the convention floors. I remember the wooden paddles being smacked on people. I remember the date auctions hosted by VAs where you could date their fans. No way that'll happen in 2019.
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chronos02



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:34 am Reply with quote
I haven't been to any US conventions, but those we have here have had very deep changes over the course of 25 years.

It started off quite big, being the only convention for people to go to, but booth distribution was a mess, completely unorganised and filled to the brim with Chinese bootleg sellers, candy shops, and a handful of official booths managed by both manga publishers and anime publishers. The overall share of the floor was around 10% official booths, 15-20% candy shops, 70-75% bootleg shops. This is for a total of around 70 booths.
Yes, there was not a single trace of official merch in the first one.

At present, things have changed for the better, somewhat. Bootleg shops account for maybe 10-15% of the floor, with official booths having grown to take around 20%, candy shops have pretty much maintained their numbers, but have decreased their floor share down to maybe 5%, in their stead, art shops have taken a big chunk, at around 10%. What has really grown is the official merch shop, up to 30% of the floor, and what should really take up most of these conventions, the doujinshi circles, have risen to take almost 15% of the total floor. The remaining 5-10% has been occupied by cultural booths from the Japan Cultural Association, among other international groups.

It's still quite sad that you must be on full alert about what you buy, since almost 1/3 of the total merchandise sold in these conventions are still bootleg goods, convention organisers don't put enough effort to prevent them from entering, it's almost as if they don't care as long as they pay for their booth's fee and space... Also, most of the stuff sold in them is extremely expensive, to absurd levels; it has been getting better, but it's still not enough of an improvement. A figma worth 3500 yen is usually found selling for almost 90€ plus minus 5€, and we're not talking re-sellers here, but actual imported goods through goodsmile's official distribution channels. The same goes for most figures that usually retail at 70-90€ in places like amiami or even amazon Japan (not taking discounts into account!), those are usually sold at almost double, sometimes triple their retail price!
And remember how I said things had gotten better? Well, it's true, figures could go for as much as 5x their retail price back in the day, if not more.

In my honest opinion, conventions over here have taken a turn for the worse, things may seem more organised, and the reduction of bootlegs is a good thing, as well as the increase of doujinshi circles; the problem stems from organisers, which started off as people interested in the Japanese anime and manga culture, and have pretty much become a soulless business, solely centred on maximising profits and following popular trends.

Cosplayers used to have a pass-free day, now they only get a small discount. All the while knowing Comiket is free of charge (safe the next year because all the Olympics problems).
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:53 am Reply with quote
Cons used to have 24-hour events when they're based in hotels. Heck, Otakon 97 was still at a Holiday Inn just outside Baltimore. Some cons still have events up to 2am. But most cons now end earlier.

We used to plan and highlight the programming schedule to make sure we can go to as much events that we can pack in a given day. We don't do that anymore. Laughing
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Mune



Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:39 am Reply with quote
chronos02 wrote:
In my honest opinion, conventions over here have taken a turn for the worse, things may seem more organised, and the reduction of bootlegs is a good thing, as well as the increase of doujinshi circles; the problem stems from organisers, which started off as people interested in the Japanese anime and manga culture, and have pretty much become a soulless business, solely centred on maximising profits and following popular trends.


In the US doujinshi circles haven't been taking off, but suffers from the same issues: following the money.

chronos02 wrote:

Cosplayers used to have a pass-free day, now they only get a small discount. All the while knowing Comiket is free of charge (safe the next year because all the Olympics problems).


That would be nice at any con I've attended, but again business venture and maximizing profits. So, no one gets a discount on entry, unless you worked for the con's staff for nearly 30+ hours the previous year as a "volunteer". Cons are typically $50 for early regristration and at door can get as high as $75 for the weekend, with some cons not offering single-day passes. It's all or nothing.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:04 pm Reply with quote
The MONSTROUSLY large difference between cons now vs "then", is that it's about the money. It's been a slow conversion, but if the con is over a couple thousand people (at BEST) then it's about the money.
vendors - To be fair, this is the one group that hasn't changed much. They started coming to cons looking to sell their wares and the still do. BUT, in the past I'd say 1/3rd to 1/2 of vendors were also clearly fans and would excitedly talk to you about shows and material. That percentage is much lower now with some having little to no idea what they're carrying or hauling in a bunch of random junk.
guests - Not the biggest, but a BIG change. Guests used to be exactly that "guests" of the convention. Pretty much every voice actor was legit happy just to have people that knew they voiced a character, even if some thought it was only "real" acting work if you saw their face. But all of them were gracious and happy. Now, first question is always "how much am I getting paid?" You could've run a whole con in the 90s on what one voice actor may be getting paid today. I'm not saying all guests "hate" doing cons now, but it IS a job.
artists - same as guests, artists used to be nothing but fans with talent who were basically just attendees that also showed off their drawing of Naruto or Ranma or Harlock, whatever. Now they're as mercenary as anyone else. There's online groups dedicated to rating conventions (mainly on "profitability") for artists and the whole question is how much money they expect to make from a con.
attendees - The biggest single change period, "panelists" used to be some industry and a bunch of random fans that were happy to just share their info and/or experience, now all the industry is doing whatever marketing and even a large number of "fans" are demanding money in order to fill schedule slots.
staff - At the bottom of it all, you have some Con Orgs who are just doing this as a JOB. They earn their wages from running conventions and so all of the above and more are planned with focus on maximizing profit. (more money in the door, is more money for me)

TL;DR - The end result of this, is that "attendees" are only looking to "be entertained" for a weekend, so they pay for a ticket and demand that the convention deliver "value" for the money, and EVERYONE else (minus a small number of truly dedicated volunteers) is just looking to make a buck. Cons USED to be a welcoming community of like-minded fans having fun together. Now they're basically low cost theme parks.

The fact that Crunchyroll (a company) started it's OWN anime convention and one of their "headliner" guests was an Olympic athlete with absolutely zero real ties to their product (anime) and nothing of value to contribute on the topic, tells you everything you need to know.
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Scalfin



Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 249
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:08 pm Reply with quote
v1cious wrote:
This seems like a good time to promote Red Bard's video about the Yaoi Paddle. If you wanna know how con culture has changed between now and the early 2000's, this is a good watch Laughing .


Yeah, it seems like the biggest change is that there's a form of sexual assault that was completely omnipresent and then disappeared with basically no one noticing or even seeming to know that it existed.
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FireballDragon



Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Posts: 682
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:31 pm Reply with quote
For some reason, this reminded me of this article I read a long time ago. http://www.i-mockery.com/visionary/anime-conventions.php

I feel sorry for the author, though; he seems like the kind of person who's tired of life.
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IIDXias



Joined: 18 Jul 2019
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:43 pm Reply with quote
I've been attending northeast anime cons for a very long time (my first con was the very first AnimeNEXT in 2002, but I've also attended many Otakons, Katsucons, Anime Bostons etc.) and I think a lot of the main conclusions are correct. What used to kind of annoy me in the early part of this decade is what this article touched upon, that it felt like anime and Japanese culture in general was increasingly being pushed out of the anime con space in favor of a more general Western geek flavor. For a while it felt like there was no real "big" anime among the cosplayers and attendees the way shows like Naruto and Inuyasha and Bleach and etc. etc. were when I first started going to cons, which only added to the feeling that less and less of the people attending anime cons actually cared about anime anymore.

Thankfully I think this trend has reversed itself in the last few years, I think in large part due to the rise of easily accessible streaming services and the like. It definitely helped to have a string of pretty big hits that caught on with the convention crowd- Attack on Titan, Yuri on Ice and My Hero Academia have all been very visible at cons among cosplayers and the like in the last little while, among other shows. So I think cons have kind of recovered from what I view as their nadir in the early-to-mid part of this decade, and I still really enjoy attending them.
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reanimator





PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:20 pm Reply with quote
Lord Geo wrote:
Quote:
Now, DVDs and Blu-rays are only sold in a handful of places, and dealer rooms are filled with apparel, figures and accessories.


And, sadly, that's kind of hurt the appeal of dealer's rooms in anime cons for me. No matter how young or old an anime fan I was or am, swag just doesn't really appeal to me much. Sure, there are exceptions every now & then, but what I go to a dealer's room in an anime con for is, well, anime. Unfortunately, that's not what seems to sell at cons anymore, oddly enough, so today cons tends to have 80% swag, 20% actual anime. As Justin said, though, manga tends to be found all over, though even that's starting to be overtaken by swag, honestly. Hell, even video games aren't as easy to come across at anime cons, with your only exceptions being a notable local retailer, who sadly are likely charging too much in an effort to take advantage of unknowing con-goers.

At the very least, that's resulted in either me saving more money than before, or me simply relying on only a handful of booths... Like the Discotek booth at Otakon.


Saving money is good thing. I used to buy a lot of discs, but now I rarely buy stuffs from conventions as they're just peddling low quality, overproduced junks.

For one thing, quality and selection of dealer swags are mediocre. Why should I waste more money at conventions on junks that could be obtained easily from online retailers?

As I'm getting older, I started to prefer practical items like clothing and utensils than toys. Recently I've been fallen love with anime cycling jerseys (Ita-Jersey/痛ジャージ) and other anime fitness clothing and none of the dealers sell those.

When I went to Tokyo 4 months ago, I mainly bought anime graphic shirts, anime coffee mugs, and even anime underwear (I kid you not) because they have better selection, quality, and durability than local Hot-Topics stuffs. Even their used anime goods stores have better selection and price than convention dealers. Japanese vendors are serious about quality and some of them actually issued recall notice on their exclusive, but defective coffee mug sold at Comiket and Anime Japan,

Mune wrote:
In the US doujinshi circles haven't been taking off, but suffers from the same issues: following the money.


Since US dojinshi sellers prioritize money as you said, I have no particular desire to buy their overpriced, amateurish looking fan art print for, like, $20. Honestly I want them to improve the art quality and entertainment value first before selling. I want entertainment in fan-comic or fan-fiction form, not another art print done in digital paint.
Speaking of popular trends at artists booth, everyone sells My Hero Academia fan art prints and that annoys me. Nothing against MHA of course, but lack of diversity itself is just boring.

enurtsol wrote:
Cons used to have 24-hour events when they're based in hotels. Heck, Otakon 97 was still at a Holiday Inn just outside Baltimore. Some cons still have events up to 2am. But most cons now end earlier.

We used to plan and highlight the programming schedule to make sure we can go to as much events that we can pack in a given day. We don't do that anymore. Laughing


When I was at Anime Japan, their hours are 10am to 6pm. So you're better off than over there.
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Aphasial
Exempt from Grammar Rules


Joined: 08 Aug 2010
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Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:14 am Reply with quote
I was a late-comer to the anime *con* scene, although I'd been to Comic-Con on occasion here in San Diego prior to the big 2008 Twilight-fueled inflation of it to massive scale. However, being a bit older, I definitely remember the geekiness of the late-'90s and early 2000s anime community.

One thing that definitely distinguishes anime conventions from the larger "omni-geek" conventions to this day is cosplay. At some cons, you might have seen upwards of 80-90% of people in cosplay, while at non-anime-specific cons the figure is usually much, much lower. Anime Vegas in 2010 or 2011 strike out to me, as does Anime Los Angeles. In fact, that's almost the immediately salient factor out of them all.

One thing that isn't mentioned but seems to have been lost is "trading" on the dealer floor. There were definitely vendors open to buying stuff, especially if it was rarer or collectible, directly on the floor, and that seems to have been reduced now. And along the same lines, there are few vendors specializing in out-of-print or hard to find stuff -- you have to really search, since everyone has much the same collection of manga and DVD/Blu-Rays. (In exchange, big "geek" cons overflow with Pop Vinyls.)

It seems that there are a number of cons where bad things have happened at the dances, but they still seem to be popular out here. (Of course, as a previous Answerman article pointed out, even calling them "raves" shows their lineage.) But FWIW those still seem to be a "thing", whether or not alcohol is officially sold by the venue past the ID check.

It think it's worth repeating that it's probably a sense of "community" that's been lost, as part of the general changes in who and how anime reaches nowadays. What may in the past have felt like a family (with warts and all), is now a more simulcra of that -- one where you can no longer quite trust the intentions of (awkward) others you meet at the venue the way one might have done 20 or even 10 years ago.
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DerekL1963
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:13 pm Reply with quote
I suspect the folks posting about "cons being out to make money"... have never actually run an event bigger than a birthday party. Events are expensive to put on, and it's a real struggle to make the ends meet - paying all the bills while keeping ticket prices in an affordable/attractive price range.
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Stampeed Valkyrie



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:52 pm Reply with quote
Let's be realistic it takes Money to put on a convention, and you need to make money to spend money. So yeah Con's are out to make money, I don't see any harm in it.

Having been on both sides of the coin, from a Guest to an Industry exhibitor at you get to be pretty well versed with how they operate. My earliest convention experience was 1995 at what would eventually be called Otakon in State College PA. At that time the fact that so many people decided to show up in one place for a convention was quite amazing. After college however my next con experience was probably 2000-2001ish (I'd have to look at my con badges). I remember Otakon in 2001 in Baltimore and Anime Next 2002 which I think was their first year. After that I was working in the industry per say, and would travel frequently to other east coast cons as needed.

Having just finished my 8th AX trip, the biggest changes from back in the 00's are the number of people attending. The panels are largely still the same, more Japanese guests, which was quite the rare event for most cons early on. VIdeo rooms are now more to sit back and relax in, rather then be a draw like they used to be. Artist Alleys have seen the biggest changes.. the level of artwork found there is astounding and interacting with the artists is still quite easy even at AX.

Dances are less relevant then they used to be, maybe because I am an older fan now I don't bother unless I am acting as a guardian. The adult oriented nature of some panels seems to be getting pushed out, including in the dealers rooms. This is neither good or bad, but I don't see a problem as long as you have the proper 18+ entry methods.

I still enjoy the dealers rooms though, I am always looking for holy grail items and some times you do get lucky. Mostly though its to handle and see figures up close, then decide to buy them there or online.

Still going to a con is only as fun as the people you are with. This hasn't changed and a good group can turn any bad con into a good one..
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HeeroTX



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:02 pm Reply with quote
DerekL1963 wrote:
I suspect the folks posting about "cons being out to make money"... have never actually run an event bigger than a birthday party.

I've run anime cons for up to and including thousands of people, I haven't run or officially staffed AX, but I think I have a pretty good idea of what's involved. I've listened to con Orgs talking about the money they make and how best to maximize PROFIT (not make a budget that's best for fans, but maximize PROFIT). I've likewise seen guests go from people that'd attend a con for room and board and some money for gas to demanding 5 figures (at least) just to give fans the privilege to bask in their presence. (hell, if you live in Texas or California, I remember when voice actors used to just show up at cons for free just to hang out with fans) I've LITERALLY had random fans email huge PDF file packets to promote their presentation capabilities in HOPES that the con would spend thousands to bring them out. (yes, FANS, ie. people without a SINGLE industry or professional credit or second of experience demanding payment just to talk for a few hours)

Do you need me to go on? I can name at least 3 people just off the top of my head that are clearly trying to become the next convention "mogul" by running several shows in the race to increase their paycheck. (I know at least 2 for absolute FACT earn their living from convention proceeds) In the early 90s, anime con Orgs SPECIFICALLY stated that they wanted to NEVER be the the "pay to win, Creation Con" model. (if you're wondering, Creation runs a bunch of cons across the country where you can pay genre stars hundreds to give you an autograph or maybe a photo) 20-25 years later, and anime cons are right on course to go where SciFi cons went before.
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realsmart987



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:14 am Reply with quote
I've attended A-kon for six years and AnimeFest for five years.

By accident I discovered Ushicon two years ago which markets itself as an age 18+ only con that is NOT covered in hentai. Their point is college age and above fans are into different series than younger fans are. There is the occasional uncovered hentai poster but that isn't the con's point.

The same thing with an unrelated Facebook group called "who says anime is just for kids?" which is the same concept. Age 18+ only without hentai that's focuses on modern anime instead of only VHS era classics.
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Mune



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:31 am Reply with quote
realsmart987 wrote:
By accident I discovered Ushicon two years ago which markets itself as an age 18+ only con that is NOT covered in hentai. Their point is college age and above fans are into different series than younger fans are. There is the occasional uncovered hentai poster but that isn't the con's point.


I've heard of a con like that. However, it was cancelled before I could attend. I would love to go to one. I'm a little annoyed to going to the same old cons with younger teenagers and rules in place to stay a "family safe" con. Though, these do bring in a lot of money for a con.

My only fear is the newly 18-21 year old, as I've witnessed some of them acting less than ideal (I mean yelling randomly, some actually drunk, and not respecting those around them in the slightest). If I wanted people like that around me, I'd go to a bar. Even at "family friendly" cons, these people are around. One year, one drunk attendee decided to relieve themselves on the con space furniture (it was after 10pm). This is also why some cons close at night, as it is less likely this will happen.

The big picture is the aging fandom, an untapped market. Some attendees are single, and this is a good opportunity to get some of them together. However, many cons have problems with any type of matchmaking events, mainly due to stalking, and outright ban them. It'd be nice if someone could figure out a way for it to work.
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