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EP. REVIEW: Vinland Saga


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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 7938
Location: IL
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:04 am Reply with quote
johan.eriksson.9003 wrote:
And people didn't believe me when I said this story has a lot of Christian themes.

Actually what you said in this thread is that this show glorifies Christianity.

It's good that you seem to have backpedaled from that stance though, which is good. Nobody would have argued with you if you took the proper stance that you seem to be taking now. Depicting Christian themes is indeed part of Vinland Saga.
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johan.eriksson.9003



Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Posts: 215
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:51 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
t's good that you seem to have backpedaled from that stance though, which is good. Nobody would have argued with you if you took the proper stance that you seem to be taking now. Depicting Christian themes is indeed part of Vinland Saga.


Drop the attitude mate, I'm not backpeddling in the slightest. My very first post in that thread was about how the story itself is very Christian, as in, it pushes a lot of Christian themes. And people thought even that was ridiculous. The subtle glorification of it comes later. Also, when something appears often enough in a story that it can even be called a "theme" it usually means that it is being glorified in some way.
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Scion Drake



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 500
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:14 pm Reply with quote
johan.eriksson.9003 wrote:
Megiddo wrote:
t's good that you seem to have backpedaled from that stance though, which is good. Nobody would have argued with you if you took the proper stance that you seem to be taking now. Depicting Christian themes is indeed part of Vinland Saga.


Drop the attitude mate, I'm not backpeddling in the slightest. My very first post in that thread was about how the story itself is very Christian, as in, it pushes a lot of Christian themes. And people thought even that was ridiculous. The subtle glorification of it comes later. Also, when something appears often enough in a story that it can even be called a "theme" it usually means that it is being glorified in some way.


We get it, the Christian religion is a part of the story. That’s neither a good thing or a bad thing, it’s just a thing.

Also just because something is a theme doesn’t mean it’s glorified, it just means it’s an element the story is analyzing & exploring.
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Yune Amagiri



Joined: 28 Jul 2016
Posts: 386
Location: France
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:05 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Point being, I think what can often feel like an un-economic use of time on Vinland Saga's part is simply a by product of the manga not necessarily being prime adaptation material. This whole journey through Wales and Mercia, for instance, is something that I would imagine plays a lot better when a bunch of the manga's chapters are collected in larger volumes, where its easier to see the connective tissue that binds everything together. The Vinland Saga anime has stumbled every now and then in that regard, but the strength of the show's atmosphere and tone has kept things afloat well enough.


Honestly, given that the animation, in this arc in particular, is a nearly perfect adaptation ( only the very beginning of the anime was really altered ) both in happening and pace, if they were to dismiss most of the low-key scenes there wouldn't be much left and it would feel like they rush the whole thing so i wouldn't say that it play better in the manga, for me at least the anime does a much better job in that regard actually. To begin with, beside 1 really long uneventful arc and another one, spoiler[The Baltic Sea War], which the anime most likely won't reach, most arcs in this serie were rather short compared to similar historical seinen adventure.
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RedSwirl



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 315
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:50 pm Reply with quote
Yune Amagiri wrote:
Quote:
Point being, I think what can often feel like an un-economic use of time on Vinland Saga's part is simply a by product of the manga not necessarily being prime adaptation material. This whole journey through Wales and Mercia, for instance, is something that I would imagine plays a lot better when a bunch of the manga's chapters are collected in larger volumes, where its easier to see the connective tissue that binds everything together. The Vinland Saga anime has stumbled every now and then in that regard, but the strength of the show's atmosphere and tone has kept things afloat well enough.


Honestly, given that the animation, in this arc in particular, is a nearly perfect adaptation ( only the very beginning of the anime was really altered ) both in happening and pace, if they were to dismiss most of the low-key scenes there wouldn't be much left and it would feel like they rush the whole thing so i wouldn't say that it play better in the manga, for me at least the anime does a much better job in that regard actually. To begin with, beside 1 really long uneventful arc and another one, spoiler[The Baltic Sea War], which the anime most likely won't reach, most arcs in this serie were rather short compared to similar historical seinen adventure.


It'll all be worth it if this season can get to spoiler[around chapter 54] which is where it's probably going to end (or at least should), but I am getting a little nervous.
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Yune Amagiri



Joined: 28 Jul 2016
Posts: 386
Location: France
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:03 pm Reply with quote
Indeed, that would be an ideal and logic stopping point for now. Considering the 2nd opening and ending's videos it doesn't seems like it would go further than that.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8558
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:18 pm Reply with quote
The history lesson, such as it was, was nice, as was the prisoner's reaction to hearing the truth. But I both cringed and laughed when Askeladd reverted to his Mexican roots to assert that "Anglos" took over after the Romans. (I would've given translator the benefit of the doubt and assumed a typo if they hadn't repeated it)
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A Mystery
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Joined: 10 Oct 2010
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:31 pm Reply with quote
Well, a key point of this episode was leadership. That's really the cliffhanger here: what's Askeladd's plan now that people are doubting his chances and plans? What will Canute do now that his 'parent' has died? Will that make him a better leader? I thought the suspense was built up quite well actually. The torture scene was a bit too long and therefore a bit boring. I liked the history 'lesson', though it is a question wether people around that time really knew a lot about history.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3327
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:39 pm Reply with quote
Gina, I'm not sure what you thought was wrong about Askeladd's history lesson. The Anglos (people from Angles, England) did take over until they lost some territory to the Saxons. Eventually, they mixed together and became the Anglo-Saxons. The Celts were shoved out to Wales, the ones that survived. The Celts in Ireland and Scotland fared a bit better, but it still wasn't a great for them, either.

As for the episode as a whole, I thought it did well at showing the increasingly desperate situation that Askeladd was getting into, and how it was large part due to the very things that got him where he was to begin with: his cleverness, ruthlessness, and willingness to have troops whose only real sense of loyalty was to blood and money, not to Askeladd himself. When in trouble, Askeladd only became even more than what he was before: more ruthless, more clever, and in doing so is digging himself into an ever deepening hole.

The only thing he's got going for him now is that Thorkell plans on killing them all, regardless of whether or not they surrender to him. Once Askeladd's men realize that (if they do) they'll fight just to avoid dying. If Askeladd can win somehow, they'll return to being "his" men, most likely.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 2520
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:17 pm Reply with quote
Getting his men killed is part of the plan, the less of them there are, the longer there supply will last. Meaning they won't have to scavenge for food and they'll be able to easily outrun Thorkell.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8558
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:40 pm Reply with quote
@ Tuor: Angles are the northern Germanic people who came after the Romans. Anglos are either white Americans of non-Hispanic descent, or English speaking people where English is not the majority language. These latter uses are a bastardization of the combining form "Anglo-" which in turn is derived from the Angles (as is the word "English"), but that does not make Anglo and Angle interchangeable terms. So it looked to me like the translator was an American who'd heard of Anglos and Anglo-Saxons, but not Angles. I thought it was funny. Ymmv.
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Kirki



Joined: 11 Jun 2019
Posts: 33
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:30 am Reply with quote
Finally someone said it. I too think that the pacing destroys much of the story's charm. It seems like they wanted to go from epic Vikings' fighting to history documentary. But even that doesn't justify this waste of an episode.
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Twilightmaster



Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 129
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:58 am Reply with quote
I think one of the biggest problems the show has had so far is that because they switched things up in the very beginning it might have helped to give people the impression that Vinland Saga is an action series. I say this partly due to they had a lot of heavy action scenes early on and they've started to dwindle as the series has progressed. And although there is plenty of action, Vinland Saga is much more about the characters and action is just a part of the formula for the time-period this story is set in.

I mean, if you look at the genres of the manga they're listed as Adventure and Historical Fiction.
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Yune Amagiri



Joined: 28 Jul 2016
Posts: 386
Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:55 am Reply with quote
Indeed, Vinland Saga is foremost another take of the Saga of Erik the Red that focused on the explorer Thorfinn Karlsefni's journey to Vinland.
spoiler[Thorfinn has for the longest time in the manga dropped the sword and as of the recent chapters, is now about to "really" start to cruise to Vinland with his news comrades. ]
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 1919
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:32 am Reply with quote
Yune Amagiri wrote:
Indeed, Vinland Saga is foremost another take of the Saga of Erik the Red that focused on the explorer Thorfinn Karlsefni's journey to Vinland.
spoiler[Thorfinn has for the longest time in the manga dropped the sword and as of the recent chapters, is now about to "really" start to cruise to Vinland with his news comrades. ]

As of chapter 165, spoiler[he's already BACK from Vinland ...after a 2 year timeskip.] (WARNING! Heavy future spoilers! I really mean it.)
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