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EP. REVIEW: Vinland Saga


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Kogami_180



Joined: 22 Nov 2019
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:17 am Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
I feel like something must have been lost in translation trough out the whole "love" discussion, does japeness have different word for love or something like that or did christian introduce a new word for love (ie godly love) and that's what was used in the discussion?

Cause otherwise it doesn't really make sense, we learn the meaning of word first and then associate that meaning with the word. People go "what's that feeling I have toward people close to me? -Oh, that's love". Claiming that a certain feeling is stronger than another (ie the feeling of "godly love" is stronger than parental love) is just fine, but it makes no sense to declare that the previous feeling "lost" or never had to right to be called such a thing in the first place. For example, people built plane that could fly slowly and not very high, later on they build plane that could go to the edge of the stratosphere and faster than the speed of sound. But at no point did anyone say "well from now on plane are only to refer to machine that can go faster than the speed of sound, everything before that is just a flying contraption", they instead called those "jet plane".

I guess if your definition of love is: "strongest possible emotion" then the conversation work. But I think most people definition of love would be along the way of "feeling husband and wife have for each others or what parent resent for there child", which doesn't prohibit a stronger/different feeling from existing, but doesn't change the feeling of love.

In the end I'm not sure if the point of the conversation was: "human are too barbaric from feeling the "best emotion" (that the priest decided to call love but isn't actually the same as parental love)" or "We're unworthy of the love God loving us the way we love our children and therefore we'll never know true love". Either way it mostly sounded like a semantic issue and is rather weak for a revelation that completely change a character. What exactly has changed in Canut world view trough this revelation?


I'm having a hard time digesting it as well but here's my opinion:

The definition of Love has always been hard to define. Even most people say that defining it is impossible. In the context of christianity, God is love itself - that's probably why we cannot limit it in one set of a definition.

"Your love can’t be reserved for one person. If you only love one person you probably don’t love anyone. Love isn’t something you can aim. The truer your love is — in other words, the less you have it confused with something else — the more generalized it becomes. To love fully is to love all."

Willybald the priest called Ragnar's affection for Canute to be simply discrimination because Ragnar stood quiet for the prince's sake at the cost of the lives of a whole village. It was discrimination because there was a hierarchy of importance, of tenderness. "It's no different from fawning over a king and hitting a slave with a whip". There was a distinction between the importance of Canute as compared to the villagers massacred. So when a feeling is stronger than the other, it basically means you're simply strongly discriminating whether in a positive or negative way. The reason why canute realized that it's the snow, the sun and all the other non living creation of God as the only thing that can embody love was because it does not discriminate. The sun shines upon all creature that its bound to reach. The snow falls upon all creature that it's bound to fall. I haven't exactly understood it 100% so i can't go to detail as to what love exactly is. But it's probably along those lines why the priest believes that man can only embody love when they die.

Well anyways, Canute realized that no one knows how to love because there's no love in the hearts of man in the first place. He questions the meaning of life and death itself and questions whether mankind exists only to be tested and endured. That we can never attain love as long as we live. And that's where canute declares he no longer seek salvation from a God whose put up trials that are never meant to save mankind. He questions whether there is a way mankind can be saved other than death. That's the point when Canute takes on a role of God itself to create a paradise on earth.That he will be the one to give meaning in such a meaningless world, to the battles and to life and death itself. That enough is a pretty good reason for a change of character - from the pious timid prince to a sovereign king.
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:54 pm Reply with quote
Kogami_180 wrote:
Well anyways, Canute realized that no one knows how to love because there's no love in the hearts of man in the first place.


I disagree with this notion. What I think is that Canute realized that such "love" can't exist in the material world no matter how hard we try, such would be an utopia (which by definition is "there is no such place").
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Kogami_180



Joined: 22 Nov 2019
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:33 am Reply with quote
mangamuscle wrote:
Kogami_180 wrote:
Well anyways, Canute realized that no one knows how to love because there's no love in the hearts of man in the first place.


I disagree with this notion. What I think is that Canute realized that such "love" can't exist in the material world no matter how hard we try, such would be an utopia (which by definition is "there is no such place").


During his conversation with the priest, at first Canute questions if there is no love in the hearts of men. Willybald then explains the story of how man was expelled from paradise because our ancestors disobeyed God and committed a sin. Canute then stated that no one knows how to love, no one knows the meaning of life and death, and no one knows the very reason of why they are fighting. Canute exclaims that what we lost in exchange for wisdom was something we can never get back as long as we live. That "something" is implied to be love. It is in fact clearly stated that Canute realized that it's the material creation of God which can truly embody love. He clenched the snow, the sun, the mountains and to the priest's affirmation, he realized those are love itself. He utters that these creation of God is beautiful (implied that he says so because those things can embody love) yet he disdained the notion that man cannot. He confronted the berserked bjorn and asked if there is any way to end his suffering other than death. (Basing from the previous notion by the priest that man can only truly love when they die).

Basically love does exist in nature but not in the nature of man. Not until they die.
That's how i understood it, but of course it's open to other interpretations and mine is simply a personal conjecture.
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RedSwirl



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:55 pm Reply with quote
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John Thacker



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:11 pm Reply with quote
The discourse on love from the priest's perspective is about universal love. His point is that love of the sort where you want better for your wife or son than others is not universal, divine love but a form of discrimination - but all that flawed sinful humans can achieve. (Japanese interpretations of this are often influenced by similar concepts in Buddhist teachings.)

The priest goes so far as to say that letting thirty strangers die to save your son (as Ragnar did for Canute whom he viewed as a son) does not reflect universal love. This is a concept that was unfamiliar to the pagan Vikings, and is hard for us to stomach, even unnatural. The concept of treating humans universally, rather than seeking family favors, is a difficult one and a concept that was fundamental to what later led to the Enlightenment and is a philosophical idea (certainly not realized anywhere close to perfectly) that animates our culture today, causing nepotism to spark outrage instead of being viewed as normal. As some scholarly papers have discussed, some of the initial efforts and trends away from nepotism can be traced to Church actions and doctrine. This is true even though many or most people who follow some of the inherited moral precepts are not adherents of the religions.

It's not clear exactly what Canute takes from it, especially considering that both he and the drunken priest are imperfect vessels.

Quote:
except for Thorfinn, who is mostly just there so he can kill Askeladd.


Is he? He has had opportunities. At this point with his claims that he will get revenge one day but instead helping his foe he is practically like Usui in Rurouni Kenshin.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:12 am Reply with quote
RedSwirl wrote:
So instead of this being a prequel, Manga readers have said that there is enough episodes for them to cover until it reaches that point. It will have an Anime only ending so it can be a self contained show.

They've never gone over well, but if they really think that they are never getting another season, I suppose it ill be better to have some sort of conclusion. And they can always retcon it like they did with Blue Exorcist.
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#GoodFollow



Joined: 27 Nov 2019
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:30 am Reply with quote
someone! tell me what is the best anime ever!
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Maidenoftheredhand



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:03 am Reply with quote
Does anyone know what volume of the manga the anime will be leaving off or diverging from the manga. I want to start buying from there (unfortunately the manga is too expensive for me to buy all the back volumes unless there is a massive sale)
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RedSwirl



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:04 am Reply with quote
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:
Does anyone know what volume of the manga the anime will be leaving off or diverging from the manga. I want to start buying from there (unfortunately the manga is too expensive for me to buy all the back volumes unless there is a massive sale)


For this whole series so far manga readers have been pretty sure it's gonna end at chapter 54 -- the end if the first arc. In the Japanese tankobon I think that's in volume 8, but each English volume is actually 2 tankobon and I think it's toward the latter part of volume 4. We'll see if the anime actually gets through all of volume 4/tankobon 8.
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Blanchimont



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:30 am Reply with quote
RedSwirl wrote:
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:
Does anyone know what volume of the manga the anime will be leaving off or diverging from the manga. I want to start buying from there (unfortunately the manga is too expensive for me to buy all the back volumes unless there is a massive sale)


For this whole series so far manga readers have been pretty sure it's gonna end at chapter 54 -- the end if the first arc. In the Japanese tankobon I think that's in volume 8, but each English volume is actually 2 tankobon and I think it's toward the latter part of volume 4. We'll see if the anime actually gets through all of volume 4/tankobon 8.

There are rumours the anime will get an original ending, reason given they aren't sure there will be a second season. So instead ending things abruptly at ch. 54 which definitely would have let any viewers not familiar with the manga hanging, they plan on trying something else..;

https://twitter.com/yabshu55/status/1196846098599440384
https://twitter.com/yabshu55/status/1198980206817464321
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:07 pm Reply with quote
RedSwirl wrote:
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:
Does anyone know what volume of the manga the anime will be leaving off or diverging from the manga. I want to start buying from there (unfortunately the manga is too expensive for me to buy all the back volumes unless there is a massive sale)


For this whole series so far manga readers have been pretty sure it's gonna end at chapter 54 -- the end if the first arc. In the Japanese tankobon I think that's in volume 8, but each English volume is actually 2 tankobon and I think it's toward the latter part of volume 4. We'll see if the anime actually gets through all of volume 4/tankobon 8.


Oh good to know (but that also means I will need to buy more than I thought)
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Amarantine



Joined: 14 Sep 2019
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:08 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
So instead of this being a prequel, Manga readers have said that there is enough episodes for them to cover until it reaches that point. It will have an Anime only ending so it can be a self contained show.

They've never gone over well, but if they really think that they are never getting another season, I suppose it ill be better to have some sort of conclusion. And they can always retcon it like they did with Blue Exorcist.


I highly doubt any eventual anime original scenes in the ending will be anything that would require a retcon if a season 2 was ever greenlit. They'll probably just fill in the blanks and show things the manga didn't, as they have done before in episodes 5 and 6, in order to have a somewhat more conclusive ending.
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RedSwirl



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:08 pm Reply with quote
Amarantine wrote:
MarshalBanana wrote:
So instead of this being a prequel, Manga readers have said that there is enough episodes for them to cover until it reaches that point. It will have an Anime only ending so it can be a self contained show.

They've never gone over well, but if they really think that they are never getting another season, I suppose it ill be better to have some sort of conclusion. And they can always retcon it like they did with Blue Exorcist.


I highly doubt any eventual anime original scenes in the ending will be anything that would require a retcon if a season 2 was ever greenlit. They'll probably just fill in the blanks and show things the manga didn't, as they have done before in episodes 5 and 6, in order to have a somewhat more conclusive ending.


This is what I'm guessing/hoping.
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RedSwirl



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:06 am Reply with quote
https://prazeressenpai.info/creators-interviews-series-04-shuhei-yabuta/

Quote:
What do you most look forward to in the future of the series?
Currently, there are 5 episodes left to be aired, and the work is reaching the arduous phase. There will be some adjustments from the original in the remaining episodes, but as mentioned earlier, all decisions are made with the satisfaction of viewers in mind.

It is probably more accurate to call it a supplement than an adjustment. It is the result of adding our own perspective so that you can enjoy this series as an independent content. We have done the same in all the episodes so far, and if you accept them, you will enjoy them. There will be minor alterations to the timing of the events, but the original story and the ending will not change.

My words may cause anxiety for those who love the original, but I’m not telling this for a conservative reason. I am confident in my decision and I am blessed with excellent, motivated staff. If you accept me as one of the enthusiastic original fans, I would be happy if you could wait for the upcoming episodes with hope, not anxiety.
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:19 am Reply with quote
Quote:
• Gunnar is obviously a bit of a worm, but I appreciate that he share's Ragnar's weirdly pointed skull shape. I don't know if this means the two are related, or just that Canute is destined to have at least one Conehead as a cronie for all time.


pretty sure he was said to be his brother.
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