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EP. REVIEW: Vinland Saga


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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 4206
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:55 pm Reply with quote
Askeladd killed his father whom he loved. It is perfectly normal to want revenge or justice for his father.

This wasn't even a battle, it was an assassination. Also, Thorfinn didn't cause his father's death. Even if Thorfinn wasn't there, there were still many youngsters there, who were and would be held hostage. Askeladd would have killed them all, if Thors didn't let himself be killed.

This is a key difference in the circumstances of his father's death. He didn't die in battle. It was a targeted assassination. This is more personal, then dying on a nameless battlefield or war.

You can decry his mindless rage that learns no lesson, but he deserves his revenge.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:30 pm Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:

You can decry his mindless rage that learns no lesson, but he deserves his revenge.


Well, only if you ignore the fact that this goes directly against his father wishes and worldview. Something which Thorfinn literally never tried understanding. He keep professing that he love his father, but he sure doesn't seem to care about him.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 4206
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:49 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
TarsTarkas wrote:

You can decry his mindless rage that learns no lesson, but he deserves his revenge.


Well, only if you ignore the fact that this goes directly against his father wishes and worldview. Something which Thorfinn literally never tried understanding. He keep professing that he love his father, but he sure doesn't seem to care about him.


He was just a kid when his father was assassinated. He grew up surround by murderous and raping human monsters. I'll be generous to Askeladd, he was just a amoral murdering human monster, but had no problem ordering the death of everyone in a village or town. (Men, women, and children). He knew what his men were up too.

Yes, going home would have been the smart thing to do, but that would also be admitting that Askeladd would be getting away with murdering his father. Even in today's society we don't want the ones who murder or harm our loved ones getting away with it.

I have always wondered why Askeladd just didn't kill Thorfin or have the men do it. Was it guilt, remorse, sense of responsibility, playing god, kindred spirits, or honoring Thors is some weird way. Or even spite, continuing to destroy the innocence of a viking child, because he was viking.
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John Thacker
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Joined: 28 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:12 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Earlier, Canute railed against the apathetic and poisoned world God had abandoned, and his determination to build a paradise on Earth


Yeah, though it's kind of a shame that it goes so utterly against everything known of the historical Canute. (Though since the story about the tides got twisted backwards over the years, at least getting things wrong about Canute has a long history.)

Still time to wrestle with the complexity of Canute, but I suspect that we will get this version that appeals to a (very modern) sort of moral that the story wants to tell instead of something at all dealing with Canute and his time on his own terms. It is made for modern viewers, of course.
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RedSwirl



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 331
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:39 pm Reply with quote
John Thacker wrote:
(Though since the story about the tides got twisted backwards over the years, at least getting things wrong about Canute has a long history.)


spoiler[Glad you mentioned the story of the tides. That depends on whether we get a season 2 where we see 2nd arc Canute.]
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 3438
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:08 am Reply with quote
I've been sitting here trying to think of another character in anime as incredibly well-realized as Askeladd has been, and all that comes to mind is Legend of the Galactic Heroes. I have to go right to that pinnacle. He's a twisted, bitter, murderous man, and I love every moment he's on-screen. Amazing writing.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8021
Location: IL
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:37 am Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:

You can decry his mindless rage that learns no lesson, but he deserves his revenge.

Not really? Askeladd was just a hired hand. Sure, he set up the archers and gave them the signal to fire the arrows, but if you actually think about it, the Jomsvikings were the ones that killed Thors by hiring Askeladd. They were the ones that wanted him dead. Askeladd just wanted the easy money and fulfilled the request.
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RedSwirl



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 331
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:13 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
TarsTarkas wrote:

You can decry his mindless rage that learns no lesson, but he deserves his revenge.

Not really? Askeladd was just a hired hand. Sure, he set up the archers and gave them the signal to fire the arrows, but if you actually think about it, the Jomsvikings were the ones that killed Thors by hiring Askeladd. They were the ones that wanted him dead. Askeladd just wanted the easy money and fulfilled the request.


spoiler[That does come up later, but not in this season. If the anime ever gets there, it would be in a season 3 probably.]
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RedSwirl



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 331
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:54 pm Reply with quote
Next ep preview: https://twitter.com/V_SAGA_ANIME/status/1207224104400621570

Noticed a couple anime-only shots in there. Might indicate some divergence, might just be the anime expanding on something that happens in the manga.

Now I'm really curious as to how they're gonna construct these last two episodes and where they'll decide to stop.
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:52 am Reply with quote
Well, the last episode is named "end of prologue" and I love that.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 2024
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:17 pm Reply with quote
Episode 24
So, what will Thorfinn do now? ...is probably the punchline of this episode. Laughing Unfortunately, we have to wait for the second season for that...(Well, as a manga reader I already know, but still...)
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 2452
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:11 pm Reply with quote
Excellent series if I was to have one complaint Thorfinn was a very boring and generic lead character. I’ve heard he gets better after this point but I can only judge based on what I’ve seen of him so far. Even in this last episode he last moments of losing his revenge do nothing for me. Though Thorfinn’s relationship with Askeladd was definitely compelling and complex. It’s hard to know exactly what Askeladd felt for Thorfinn. Of course he used him throughout the series but also think he cared for him in his own sort of way too.

And Askeladd was an excellent complex character. One of the best characters of 2019 to me in fact. Canute and Thorkell were also great characters that grew on me over the course of the series.


I do plan to pick up the manga. Although the ending gave me more hope to a possible second season.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:51 am Reply with quote
Overall this was a solid adaptation of the prologue. I'm glad that the director and the rest of the staff treated Yukimura's work with the respect it deserved. Not sure what I would have done if there were a dozen anime-only characters inserted in for cheap comedic gags like Planetes.

Getting a glimpse of some new faces at the end points to a sequel, and I'm down for that if it does happen.
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Amarantine



Joined: 14 Sep 2019
Posts: 15
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:12 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
Overall this was a solid adaptation of the prologue. I'm glad that the director and the rest of the staff treated Yukimura's work with the respect it deserved. Not sure what I would have done if there were a dozen anime-only characters inserted in for cheap comedic gags like Planetes.


I know, right? Now if only this led to a new, faithful and complete adaptation of Planetes. I still consider it Yukimura's best work (though Vinland Saga isn't far behind).
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 3681
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:20 pm Reply with quote
The part with the blade dropping I thought was a really nice visual trick, and shows how the material can benefit in animation.

I hope at some point this can get a dub from an ADR director who really cares about this, for the characters to have appropriate accents. Ideally it would be great if there was a dub where everyone spoke different languages, Danish, English, Welsh etc. But I'm guessing that that would be impossible.
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