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EP. REVIEW: Fire Force


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LuffyTDS



Joined: 21 Nov 2015
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:17 pm Reply with quote
Kuroi Ren wrote:
I am surprised with the amount of negativity in the review.

Judge the anime by anime standards. Not because of the source material unless you're chatting with friends. It's supposed to be a review about THE TV SERIES


I'm really confused by this comment. Like, are we not supposed to talk about the story and the characters because those come from the manga? We're only allowed to talk about technical aspects unique to the anime? If the anime has the same issues as the manga then of course people will complain about them when watching the anime.
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Lord Vaultman



Joined: 03 Mar 2017
Posts: 470
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:44 pm Reply with quote
LuffyTDS wrote:
Kuroi Ren wrote:
I am surprised with the amount of negativity in the review.

Judge the anime by anime standards. Not because of the source material unless you're chatting with friends. It's supposed to be a review about THE TV SERIES


I'm really confused by this comment. Like, are we not supposed to talk about the story and the characters because those come from the manga? We're only allowed to talk about technical aspects unique to the anime? If the anime has the same issues as the manga then of course people will complain about them when watching the anime.


I'm pretty sure the argument he's making is "why is the rating being so heavily penalized by the reviewer for these relatively minor annoyances?" Those minor annoyances dont even seem to be bothering most people except for the reviewer and one or two other people.


Last edited by Lord Vaultman on Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 1431
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:44 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Here we have a girl with her own set of shiny flame powers that she could easily use to at least help Shinra dole out some justice, but instead she gets all of her clothes burnt off so she can whimper with the kids in the corner.


I mean if they keep doing that with her, then yeah, that's pretty poor treatment of the character, but considering she was just betrayed and assaulted (in an attempt to kill her) by someone she looked up to and was also likely romantically interested in, it's not odd to see her unable to act due to shock.
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 1655
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:47 pm Reply with quote
I cant believe in this day and age, in an site aimed at "otaku" fans people are complaining about a fan service character. I like her character, and yes I did laugh at her interactions with shinra. And I like to love ru, and any other fan servicey harem etc. Its people like those on this message board, and what we have seen from Sony since they have allowed the American division to start censoring games for everyone, why I am not surprised most of the time Japanese studios dont give two fucks about what the West thinks. And honestly I hope it stays that way.

And honestly I wouldn't care if people had those opinions if it wasn't for the fact they always ruin everything for everyone else. You have this small minority who feign offense, and then publishers start kowtowing by either censoring or blocking things outright. And 90 percent of the time the people who complain would never have bought the product in the first place. They just need to act holier than thou and ruin it for those who like the stuff because it upsets them and somehow their opinion is somehow worth more than people who actually spend money. Tyranny by the minority at its finest. As far as I am concerned, if an action/product etc crosses no legal line, than everyone can be as offended as they want, but no one has any business censoring anything. Morality is subjective, legality is not, no two people will ever agree on what is moral so dont use that as a standard.

God I seriously hope Tamaki continues to stay front and center, continues to have lucky pervert moments, and if a man can dream ends up with Shinra, although sadly the Soul Eater guy never is good with romance.

Also yes bias can exist in a review in a way that undermines its credibility. Yes a review is supposed to be subjective, but at the same time a good reviewer can still acknowledge quality. Case in point, I don't particularly like Godfather, at the same time I can still look at the movie on its technical merits, its acting, and directing, and acknowledge that its a quality movie despite me not liking it do to the subject matter. But then again I shouldn't and don't expect much these days with ANN reviewers, because they provided "quality" "journalism". Nyohohoho, yea sure, keep telling yourselves that.
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12skippy21



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 766
Location: York, England
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:05 pm Reply with quote
Calm down dude, I think comparing a review to the whole censorship topic is a little far reaching. Generally censorship is carried out against games etc that are fanservice vehicles to begin with, and are focused on by people claiming offense who do not play the games. We can allow crudeness on TV but not in other media, so on and so forth.

In this shows perspective I see the reviewer's point, the tone is all over the place. Tamaki being shocked at the betrayal makes sense, but she was just beaten up pretty badly then we go into, oh wait, YOU HAVE BOOBS LOL. Fanservice in the downtime of the story I do not see a problem with but when it is shoehorned into what should be a serious moment, it simply takes you out of the story.
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5301
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:22 pm Reply with quote
I agree with James, the show is losing the way. I wasn't as blown away by its first episode as many people were, but it looked like promising action shonen with cool animation, fun characters, and episode two was astonishingly compassionate and humane. Flash forward to the present and apart from Shinra and Arthur, most of the 8th has hardly made an appearance in a two or three weeks, I have no notion of where the plot is going, and the notion of the Infernals' humanity has been completely overstepped by all these conspiracies and inside corruption that gets solved in twenty minutes. Heck, we only learn that Arthur's gone missing as a throwaway line at the end of the episode and no one seems to really care about it, so how is the audience supposed to care?

This arc is a very good example of how filler could have improved on the material. If they'd added one or two episodes showing how Shinra have more interactions or going on missions with Rekka and growing to admire him like Tamaki does, and giving the audience more time to know him and grow fond of him, his betrayal would have been much more impactful, and his death more sorrowful. It doesn't help how Tamaki is so far a one-note tsundere character with the stupidest tacky "Lucky Pervert" skit, so even her heartbreak over the betrayal doesn't have as much emotional weight as it could.

The issue isn't just the fanservice -even though the fact that Ohkubo made "fanservice" Tamaki's main character traight doesn't scream of fantastic character writing-, it's how poorly it is handled. The whole show just has to completely come into a halt for full minutes at a time so Shinra can shove his face in Tamaki's boobs or for us to watch her uniform get conveniently sexily melt away so she's left 70% naked (isn't it minimal common sense that the Fire Brigades wear fire repellent clothes?). All of the tension and gravitas of the fight just evaporates for these poorly timed, juvenile jokes. How are we supposed to take Tamaki's pain seriously if midfight she starts yelling at Shinra for falling on her boobs while he blushes and flails in embarrassment? I'm not a huge fan of tacky shonen fanservice, but I can stand it if it doesn't go overboard. When it starts actively getting in the way of the story and characters, that's when I have a real problem with it
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rtil



Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 90
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:45 pm Reply with quote
why is Tamaki even in the series? having to re-watch the scene of her getting the shit beaten out of her was already too much, but then they have to punctuate every serious moment with Shinra groping her, landing in her boobs, or her clothes ripping off. it kills the atmosphere and makes it really hard to take the story seriously. it's like the author gets off on abusing and shaming this character.
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LuffyTDS



Joined: 21 Nov 2015
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:14 pm Reply with quote
Lord Vaultman wrote:
LuffyTDS wrote:
Kuroi Ren wrote:
I am surprised with the amount of negativity in the review.

Judge the anime by anime standards. Not because of the source material unless you're chatting with friends. It's supposed to be a review about THE TV SERIES


I'm really confused by this comment. Like, are we not supposed to talk about the story and the characters because those come from the manga? We're only allowed to talk about technical aspects unique to the anime? If the anime has the same issues as the manga then of course people will complain about them when watching the anime.


I'm pretty sure the argument he's making is "why is the rating being so heavily penalized by the reviewer for these relatively minor annoyances?" Those minor annoyances dont even seem to be bothering most people except for the reviewer and one or two other people.


Finding the humor unfunny, the fanservice not titillating, having no investment in the character who should be the emotional core of the arc, not caring about the villain, tonal inconsistency, lack of interesting character arcs, rushed writing, and unclear story direction. I don't see these as "minor annoyances".
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Vanadise
Village ElderVillage Elder


Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 198
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:21 pm Reply with quote
Lord Vaultman wrote:
Those minor annoyances dont even seem to be bothering most people except for the reviewer and one or two other people.

For what is worth, those "minor annoyances" caused me to stop watching the show several episodes ago. I'm just here now to see if it got better, but it doesn't look like it.
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Ashen Phoenix



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2580
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:30 pm Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:
I cant believe in this day and age, in an site aimed at "otaku" fans people are complaining about a fan service character.

Wow. There is so much to unpack in this comment I'm just gonna stick with this part.

First, if you enjoy how her character is portrayed, that's fine! You're entitled to. The same way the ANN columnists are individuals with personal likes and dislikes, they are allowed to express those in their reviews.

As a female viewer, I fell hard for the gorgeous animation and inventive camera work, the memorable OP and mystery/action premise. But by Princess Dominatrix's intro, I felt uncomfortable and unwanted as a viewer and I find the older I get the less I have the patience for a series that chooses to objectify and humiliate its female characters for the sake of titillation rather than present the fan service in a way that the characters show an iota of consent to. Princess's character could, by itself, be fascinating, sexy, and empowering, yet the only takeaway I had from her was, "this is fetish fap material."

Tamaki has come off similarly to Yoko of Gurren Lagann; her skills and personality tell us one thing while the camera work and interactions with others tell us another. It isn't enough to have her be a sexually open, no-nonsense badass. No, the fan service has to be against her will and result in humiliating and traumatizing her. It's never called out in-universe and the MC is given a "pass" because it's never by his choice that he physically assaults Tamaki, so the target demographic can use these salient angles and fetishized predicaments as fap fuel because the story reduces Tamaki to a bunch of sexy parts rather than a person.

I don't expect miracles in a fairly straightforward shounen fantasy series, but when compared to the treatment the male characters receive--they're allowed to be solemn, insightful, independent, funny without removing their personhood, and consistently cool--I can't help feeling repelled by a series that treats its female characters as collections of effable body parts and fetishized victims (Remember, muscled girls are ugly, the religious support HAS to be a cutsie nun, and the most memorable characterization we ever got for Shinra's mom--arguably the most significant influence on his young life--is that she "believed in his goodness," and "was a mom").

So forgive me, Klown, if I differ from you in the level of enjoyment I take in this series. You are entitled to enjoy it however you like, the same as I am entitled not to. I believe an "unbiased review" is an oxymoron, as the writer cannot wholly separate their personal feelings for a series when experiencing it. Their review cannot be a clinical blow-by-blow of events with zero commentary.

I dropped the series after episode 4 and following these reviews now to see if I should bother going back.
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Generations



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:58 am Reply with quote
If all you're looking for is a review that agreed with you, you're not looking for a conversation. You're looking for an echo chamber.

It's okay to like the series, but that doesn't mean ignoring what you believe to be its flaws -- and in this case, those flaws (or how one commenter put it, 'minor annoyances') can pile up enough to say that maybe it's trash for you specifically. In this case, I agree with the review. The show was middling to meh before, and it hasn't changed that feeling in 9 episodes.

But that doesn't mean you can't like trash. I mean, that's why people love Symphogear, or shows like Eromanga Sensei or To Love-Ru. Doesn't mean you shouldn't acknowledge that pretty trash is trash nonetheless.
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TheRahi00



Joined: 20 Aug 2013
Posts: 128
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:08 am Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:
And I like to love ru,.


That explains a lot.

Seriously though, there are many ways to do Fanservice, the way this series does it, is cheap, illogical, cringy, disrespectful, not funny nor enjoyable. People are not complaining just for the sake of complaining. In the last 20 years of watching anime, this really has to be one of the series with the cheapest Fanservice that I have seen so far. So yes, this is very much worth criticizing and this Fanservice IS hurting the series A LOT.

Especially for a series that want to be taken seriously. For an episode that wants to be taken seriously, by showing this very character having problems, being beaten up, being emotionally unstable. Can you feel these emotions and relate to her ? Not really when just 10 minutes before she "accidentally" does a backflip in the air and lands with her ass on someone's head, with her panty being exposed, this all after being groped 5 seconds before. Har Har, hilarious.
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thezentris



Joined: 08 Sep 2019
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:41 am Reply with quote
If you're lowering your expectations hopefully we'll stop reading about how crap every episode is.

Honestly, 7 Deadly Sins did this exact same thing and ended up being fine. Read the manga if you don't want to believe it gets better. Feels like you can bypass Tamaki's lechery stupidity by skimming through those panels and seeing what's actually going on.
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AntiKuro



Joined: 01 Aug 2017
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:30 am Reply with quote
thezentris wrote:
If you're lowering your expectations hopefully we'll stop reading about how crap every episode is.

Honestly, 7 Deadly Sins did this exact same thing and ended up being fine. Read the manga if you don't want to believe it gets better. Feels like you can bypass Tamaki's lechery stupidity by skimming through those panels and seeing what's actually going on.


Honestly having read a chunk of the manga is probably why I like Tamaki so much. I didn't when she was first introduced but she kind of grew on me as a character after she joined Company 8.

I'm excited for what's coming though, when they get there. Mostly I want to see Benimaru animated Anime hyper
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Klinex



Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:19 am Reply with quote
When it comes to lame fan service there are so many anime that did way worse than this.

Fairy Tail, 7 Deadly Sins and pretty much any Isekai ever made... . So yeah, compared to that i'm not that bothered by what's going on here.

But i think the weirdest thing with this episode is the timing of those scenes, they really do happen at the most random moments. Then again, for me it's more funny than shocking.

Also, the fight was pretty sweet, the best part still being the sound design.
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