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Crabtree1
Joined: 14 Mar 2018
Posts: 106
Location: Aberdeenshire
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 Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:06 pm
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So if I'm assuming that the names are "correct" in the original manga, then does that mean Araki got permission from all of the people involved in the copyrighting of the names? If so, then that must've been a hell of a lot of work.
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Yuvelir
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 1558
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:08 pm
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| Crabtree1 wrote: | | So if I'm assuming that the names are "correct" in the original manga, then does that mean Araki got permission from all of the people involved in the copyrighting of the names? If so, then that must've been a hell of a lot of work. |
He didn't. He just used the names of music he was enjoying at the time.
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Crabtree1
Joined: 14 Mar 2018
Posts: 106
Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:40 pm
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| Yuvelir wrote: |
| Crabtree1 wrote: | | So if I'm assuming that the names are "correct" in the original manga, then does that mean Araki got permission from all of the people involved in the copyrighting of the names? If so, then that must've been a hell of a lot of work. |
He didn't. He just used the names of music he was enjoying at the time. |
Oh! How on earth did he get away with that then?
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pikabot
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 168
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:46 pm
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A lot of people talking past each other in this thread.
It is true that under copyright law, there should be no issue with using names drawn from musical album titles. You can't copyright a name. You can trademark a name, but using the name in the body of your work, in a context that could not possibly be confused for the original trademarked product, does not violate trademark (although once you start producing merch this gets a bit hazier). So, strictly speaking, there should be no legal reason why Crunchyroll couldn't use the original names.
However, it is also true that record labels are extremely litigious, and have extremely deep pockets with which to pursue that litigation. They can and will casually run up legal fees that are ruinous for a smaller operation like Crunchyroll et al. And, because IP law and its surrounding jurisprudence in the US is, and this is a technical term, deeply fucked, even though Crunchyroll really ought to have the stronger case, there's no guarantee they would win a lawsuit should it come to that, and if they lost it, the damages could be massive. Therefore, even though by a common-sense reading of the law, there should be no problem using the original names, Crunchyroll's legal department would be insane to sign off on using them instead of applying a legal prophylactic.
Is it messed up that corporations with bottomless pockets can use the legal system as a cudgel to enforce behaviors regardless of the substance of the law? Yeah, sure, but this doesn't even make the top one hundred examples of that being the case.
| Quote: | | While I understand the desire to want to have the original names, technically this should be considered illegal and not be advertised here. It would be the same as promoting fansubs or emulation sites. |
Everything you said there is obviously untrue.
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Yuvelir
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 1558
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:08 pm
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| Crabtree1 wrote: |
| Yuvelir wrote: |
| Crabtree1 wrote: | | So if I'm assuming that the names are "correct" in the original manga, then does that mean Araki got permission from all of the people involved in the copyrighting of the names? If so, then that must've been a hell of a lot of work. |
He didn't. He just used the names of music he was enjoying at the time. |
Oh! How on earth did he get away with that then? |
Artists probably don't care that much. Or most likely because he was an ocean away.
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Takizawa-Shinzou
Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 102
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:56 pm
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| Zalis116 wrote: |
| MarshalBanana wrote: | | Finally, the name changes has never made any sense. |
What part of "for copyright reasons" doesn't make sense? CR doesn't want to get sued by music labels and artists. If JJBA fans are made about the changes, they should blame Araki for using all those legally-problematic song and band names in the first place. |
that part that doesn't have make sense is the entire thing. You can't copyright the name of a band. There are thousands of bands with the same name as another band, it's an EXTREMELY common thing. This excuse has been disproven time and time again. It's just ignorant fear of copyright. And even if it was copyright it wouldn't apply here because character names are entirely different than say, making a video game with the same name as another one. The video games would confuse people. No one would be confused about an anime character. Furthermore, a lot of names changed were ALBUM or SONG names. Also things you can't copyright and are even more common. Songs having the same name is just normal. Copyright is NOT a valid reason to change these names. I've probably done more research into music laws than the average anime fan due to my work but the fact that so many artists, songs,and albums share the same name should've been enough to kill the copyright rumors. Lastly, if there WAS copyright issues, the Japanese voices saying the names would still be a violation. But those are left untouched. It's NOT a copyright issue. Sad to see mods spreading misinformation like this.
Pikabot explained this in a less hostile way than I did but I get a bit upset by this topic because it spreads false information about music and that's my livelihood.
That said I don't agree that anyone would sue over this anyway. No sane judge would even acceptaa case like this. The cases would be thrown out very quickly because the laws are so clear. Unless the anime was literally a biopic, there's nothing illegal about using the same names as real artists or their songs and albums.
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The Unchosen One
Joined: 09 Dec 2018
Posts: 4
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:06 pm
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| Quote: | | Better to be safe than to open up a can of worms simply to please a small group of people who think that those names are necessary have to full experience of watching or reading JoJo. |
Well, actually it is part of a full experience of watching or reading JoJo knowing the characters and Stands by their actual original names. That's why people complain about how stupid CR's names really are and one of the reasons JJBA is well-known in the first place.
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Sakagami Tomoyo
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 940
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:23 pm
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| BadNewsBlues wrote: | | Whammu doesn't sound exactly like Wham |
It does when you're accustomed to heavily Japanese-accented English.
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Yuvelir
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 1558
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:49 pm
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| Sakagami Tomoyo wrote: |
| BadNewsBlues wrote: | | Whammu doesn't sound exactly like Wham |
It does when you're accustomed to heavily Japanese-accented English. |
Gotta admit the Roman zombie chorus chanting WA-MU-U was kind of weird though.
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TheOtakuX
Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 344
Location: Wooster, Ohio
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:50 pm
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Some of the name changes are just silly, though. Sticky Fingers may be a music reference, but it's also a generic term for stealing. There should be no problem using the original name.
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omegafinal
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 125
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:41 pm
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Unfortunately, this thing extends more than just Crunchyroll. When Capcom and Bandai Namco brought over their Jojo games, there are a multitude of name changes on there as well (and I think a majority of Crunchyroll's name changes is based on the ones in Jojo's All Star Battle.). So the fear of being sued is maybe bigger than most of us can possibly know. Maybe it's a trademark thing. I'm reminded of a recent development in the video game world when Iron Maiden took the Ion Maiden developer and publisher to court for trademark infringement and won.
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WANNFH
Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1697
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Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:54 am
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| Top Gun wrote: | | Actual songs are subject to copyright, but since when are the song titles, or even more absurdly, the band names themselves? It makes even less sense when even song names that are common words, like "Echoes" in part 4, are subject to change. |
In US, the juridical system can run their money even by those silly things. For example, a very recent case with 3DRealms and their game Ion Maiden, for which Iron Maiden band took a copyright infringement, despite they can never clearly have the right for the whole sentence for many reasons.
| Quote: | | I'm reminded of a recent development in the video game world when Iron Maiden took the Ion Maiden developer and publisher to court for trademark infringement and won. |
They are not won, it's just settled down before the court with the name change, cause 3D Realms don't even want even to pay for the court for years for the really crappy case of infringement. Don't think that Iron Maiden advocates go approach for the money the BIG BOYS like Marvel though for the same reason.
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Ryo Hazuki
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 363
Location: Finland
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Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:18 am
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| Zalis116 wrote: | | What part of "for copyright reasons" doesn't make sense? CR doesn't want to get sued by music labels and artists. If JJBA fans are made about the changes, they should blame Araki for using all those legally-problematic song and band names in the first place. |
Besides many names being just generic words or normal names, Black Sabbath took its name from an Italian movie, which is still found under that name and Duran Duran was a character from Barbarella before there was a British band by the same name. There are dozens of bands, which take their names from other bands' lyrics or song or album titles, such as Judas Priest and Masters of Reality or literature such as Gorgoroth, Burzum, Cirith Ungol and Amon Amarth.
I would understand changing the names if the characters or stands shared the likenesses of their name sakes but that isn't the case.
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enurtsol
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14761
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Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:46 pm
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Some very protective artists may simply sue because they don't want it to seem like they are associated with another work that they're not part of.
They just don't want that perception like they're part of it or approved of it.
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NJ_
Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 3009
Location: Wallington, NJ
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:27 am
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| omegafinal wrote: | | Unfortunately, this thing extends more than just Crunchyroll. When Capcom and Bandai Namco brought over their Jojo games, there are a multitude of name changes on there as well (and I think a majority of Crunchyroll's name changes is based on the ones in Jojo's All Star Battle.). So the fear of being sued is maybe bigger than most of us can possibly know. Maybe it's a trademark thing. |
To add to this, at the time All Star Battle was announced for an English release in 2013, there were reports that Bamco worked with Shueisha on those name changes so as not to offend those involved (which considering what happened with Capcom's Part 5 PS2 game's localization getting canned made sense) and that the anime would have them as well when localized so this was known for years and yeah, Capcom did have their own changes with the Part 3 game since the arcade version's English release 20+ years ago and in that case, those carried over to the Part 3 OVAs' English release as well.
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