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EP. REVIEW: O Maidens in Your Savage Season


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#HayamiLover



Joined: 22 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:35 am Reply with quote
So far, the Sonezaki's route seems the most melodramatic, but I like it. As a person from an old-fashioned family, my teenage experiences were a lot like hers, so I even feel some kindred connection with her.

Also I didn’t really like the fact that Momo was growing up without a father, as this could inadvertently create a hint of the connection between this and her sexuality. However, in general, her route still looks quite interesting and intuitive, especially her attempts to compare and study her own experience. I can’t wait for the audience’s reaction to her monologue in the coming chapters, I think this will finally put emphasis in her story.

@Animegomaniac I do not think that pedophilia is generally something that can be measured from the position of "worse" or "better." I am not a doctor, but in my opinion it is better for such people not to contact with children at all.

@Agent355 He didn't consider her as a sex partner. Here it’s more about the kind of fetishists who prefer to observe and enjoy the look of their object of adoration. Moe fans are often criticized for this, although it seems that even such moe-ish works like "Beelzebub-jou no Okinimesu mama" not afraid to do self-parody of it. In any case, Niina got a rather traumatic experience that somehow “controlled” her entire subsequent life.
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:35 am Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:

Niina is not responsible for the director’s temptations, any more than she’s responsible for boys her age being attracted to her now, or the assumptions about her that other girls (including Kazusa), make about her or her relationship with boys based on her looks. I think she has to learn that so she’ll be more comfortable being herself and making friends.


"Boys her age." She didn't say it was boys. How familiar are you with Japan and their age of consent? This reminds me of another work written by a Japanese woman where a middle school girl was asked out and proposed to by a business man in his 30s... Not being molested by a Japanese man, that's... wrong in the way it's not wrong? This is the culture that put up signs saying "Hey, watch out for molesters!" rather than signs that say "Don't molest people!" so it's clear whose side the culture supports.

So... what hurt Niina the most is the rejection, it was her time to say yes and he said no.. Before learning her backstory: Niina has a healthy if single minded interest in sex. After it, I... still feel the same. She waited a bit, thought about it, and decided to go ahead.

Quote:
In Niina's mind, being sexually attractive to men means that she's fully away from her abuser, so if she herself becomes sexually active, she'll have escaped him.


You're projecting. She became physically attractive to men and then the director scorned her. At the ripe old age of... 14 .sigh. Japan's being Japan again!.... And then she waited a few years because? I'd say she's trying to claim her sexuality for herself which is why she's flirting with Izumi, a form of control she never had with the director; Well, she tried but he was just not going after her bait. And she wants to pull away from her abuser or rather show that she's over him, not really all the convincingly, by rubbing the fact she has a boyfriend in his face?

I'd put the director in the same position as Lewis Carroll... where are we on that historically by the way? Lover of girlish innocence, eww I guess? "It never came out he was a pedophile but OBVIOUSLY..." says one culture about another. But actual child molesters... at least we know where we stand with them?

As I always say, "form defines function" and now would be a good time to question why these high school girls still look like 12 year olds. These girls are the same age as the ones in "How Heavy are the Dumbbells You Lift?" but.... yeah, I'll just leave it at but.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:32 pm Reply with quote
Princess_Irene wrote:
MiloTheFirst wrote:

btw, in my case I named it after my first Pug


Honestly, ever since Milo and Otis I always assume the name Milo is either talking about a pug or an orange tabby cat. Smile


When I hear Milo, the first thing of think of is The Phantom Tollbooth.
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Panino Manino



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:08 pm Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:

And I agree with Panino Manino that the nuances in the story from Niina’s perspective, how it affects her view of herself and relationships now, is way more interesting than the director. I disagree that she ever really had “power” over him, though.


I want to push my broken engrish to try to clarify this point.
Yes, I think that Niina had some power over him.
HER BEAUTY IS A POWER, and she makes use of this power in the story.
Saegusa was attracted by her (undeveloped) looks, and only that. She grew, he doesn't care anymore. I agree that he did bad letting her know that he is a pedophile, but he also looks like he is "assexual"? Besides the psychological "harm" he doesn't do much more.
But I said that I wanted to clarify this.
The discussion here is going good and I'm liking, but the talk for now is more about Saegusa than Niina. I said in the beginning that I wanted to hear what people could think about Niina, because despite the type, shape or form of "abuse" you can imagine she suffered from Saegusa, this story have more interest in the girls and their actions. What Saegusa did isn't more important than what Niina will do, and again I come back to the power I said she had over him. Saegusa is a pedophile, as a sick person he "can't help" but feel attracted by her. I think that Niina has some awareness about this, because... she sees the influence of this "power of hers" acting over almost all males she comes across every day. The lustful eyes she sees every day must be affecting her as much as her time with Saegusa and... Niina acts. With gusto. The same way "signs" were giving for Momo's sexual orientation signs were also given for how bold Niina will behave.

I still don't know why and I want to understand what's her thinking is and her goal. Maybe she wants to feel in control instead of the mercy of all those men?
But people say that Okada's characters don't behave like human beings...

I'm already feel sorry for you comrades, but you'll will hate Okada with fervent power.
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rizuchan
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:28 pm Reply with quote
I just wanted to point out that I think there was definitely some wordplay going on in that rejection scene.

The director says (and I'm paraphrasing from memory here) that he will only love Niina while she is a girl (shoujo), and when she is no longer a girl (shoujo), he will not be interested in her.

The Japanese word for "virgin" is "shojo", without the long vowel in the middle. If you replace "girl" with "virgin" in that scene, the message is still mostly the same, but a bit more ominous: he won't have sex with her, because once she is no longer a virgin, she immediately loses the purity that he finds attractive in the first place.

I think that even though the main message is clear regardless, the double meaning here is important because it's not just the director waxing poetic about how he only finds prepubescent girls attractive, but it's alluding to how society associates purity with both children and the concept of virginity. In reality just having sex doesn't change anything about who you are as a person, nor does it flip a switch that turns you into an adult, even though this is the way teenagers (and still many adults apparently) so often perceive it.
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DuskyPredator
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:17 pm Reply with quote
Panino Manino wrote:
Yes, I think that Niina had some power over him.
HER BEAUTY IS A POWER, and she makes use of this power in the story.


But it was not something she had an active control over. If anything she is as much a victim of her looks, as those drawn by her beauty. You can't call a little girl as having power because her looks attracted the attention of a pedophile, and it sounds really wrong to say that a little girl is strong because pedophiles are attracted to her. She admitted in the recent episode that she hates the attention that she feels from her looks, that even her peers (friends) treat her differently.

Panino Manino wrote:
Saegusa was attracted by her (undeveloped) looks, and only that. She grew, he doesn't care anymore. I agree that he did bad letting her know that he is a pedophile, but he also looks like he is "assexual"? Besides the psychological "harm" he doesn't do much more.
But I said that I wanted to clarify this.


You can only base this on the fact that he apparently did nothing like molest her, or let attraction he felt show up as arousal. It does not mean that he did not, shouldn't be something seen as noble. And it pretty clear that the psychological harm was plenty. An adult of authority gave her special attention because of how 'tempting' she looked, made it feel intimate and important to the important person, and then says that she loses it if she grows into a mature person. He is the reason that she is currently messed up with wanting to be equal with maturity of an adult, while also seeing it as her death.

Panino Manino wrote:
What Saegusa did isn't more important than what Niina will do, and again I come back to the power I said she had over him. Saegusa is a pedophile, as a sick person he "can't help" but feel attracted by her.


What he could help was to actively to be mentoring children. He could have removed himself from the situation where he is giving special attention to a little girl. It is victim blaming to say that the man who could choose what type of people to teach, is aware that he is attracted to children and still teaches them, is under the power of a little girl who had no control over how attractive she can be and it was her only direction to get into acting. Most of the decisions would have been up to her parents anyway, which they apparently let the man take their daughter out on special events.
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Agent355



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:13 pm Reply with quote
This isn’t a “cultural” thing, the director’s behavior is not considered “ok” in Japan. The show itself calls out the director as a pedophile and made it clear it was inappropriate and “gross” for him to single out a girl and tell her he was attracted to her, separate her from her peers and tell her she’s special but only until she reaches a certain age, and then she may as well be dead to him. That’s messed up. If he had outright molested or raped her, that would have been more messed up, but that doesn’t make him a saint (and I caught the subtlety that if he had, she wouldn’t be a “girl” to him anymore). His main failing wasn’t rejecting her, it was singling her out, and isolating her from the other kids ( she didn’t make close friends until she met the lit club members) in the first place.
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#HayamiLover



Joined: 22 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:35 am Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
This isn’t a “cultural” thing, the director’s behavior is not considered “ok” in Japan. The show itself calls out the director as a pedophile and made it clear it was inappropriate and “gross” for him to single out a girl and tell her he was attracted to her, separate her from her peers and tell her she’s special but only until she reaches a certain age, and then she may as well be dead to him. That’s messed up. If he had outright molested or raped her, that would have been more messed up, but that doesn’t make him a saint (and I caught the subtlety that if he had, she wouldn’t be a “girl” to him anymore). His main failing wasn’t rejecting her, it was singling her out, and isolating her from the other kids ( she didn’t make close friends until she met the lit club members) in the first place.


Personally, I am generally surprised that people discuss it so easily. Of course, as a guy, I can’t say that I would take such an attitude from an adult woman as something traumatic, but damn it, that he didn't try to rape her was the only "good" thing in him.
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Panino Manino



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:41 am Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:

But it was not something she had an active control over. If anything she is as much a victim of her looks, as those drawn by her beauty. You can't call a little girl as having power because her looks attracted the attention of a pedophile, and it sounds really wrong to say that a little girl is strong because pedophiles are attracted to her.

I said that she "has a power" that can be used, not that she is strong.

DuskyPredator wrote:

You can only base this on the fact that he apparently did nothing like molest her, or let attraction he felt show up as arousal. It does not mean that he did not, shouldn't be something seen as noble.

Didn't said that "it was noble", just stated a fact in the story.

DuskyPredator wrote:

What he could help was to actively to be mentoring children. He could have removed himself from the situation where he is giving special attention to a little girl. It is victim blaming to say that the man who could choose what type of people to teach, is aware that he is attracted to children and still teaches them, is under the power of a little girl who had no control over how attractive she can be and it was her only direction to get into acting.

Not blaming her, is that he is weak.
Were he stronger he could do all that you said. But he isn't and can't resist his urges. Not to say that "I'm defending him", "I'm justifying him", I'm just trying to think how the character is and why he is the way he is.
But what rizuchan wrote changed my mind a bit about what I was thinking about what I know Niina does after in the story:

rizuchan wrote:
I just wanted to point out that I think there was definitely some wordplay going on in that rejection scene.

The director says (and I'm paraphrasing from memory here) that he will only love Niina while she is a girl (shoujo), and when she is no longer a girl (shoujo), he will not be interested in her.

The Japanese word for "virgin" is "shojo", without the long vowel in the middle. If you replace "girl" with "virgin" in that scene, the message is still mostly the same, but a bit more ominous: he won't have sex with her, because once she is no longer a virgin, she immediately loses the purity that he finds attractive in the first place.

Maybe is that simple?!
Is this all more about chastity and "purity" (in the japanese way)?
I feel a bit disappointed, all this controversial setup just for this Okada?
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DuskyPredator
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:21 pm Reply with quote
Panino Manino wrote:
Not blaming her, is that he is weak.
Were he stronger he could do all that you said. But he isn't and can't resist his urges. Not to say that "I'm defending him", "I'm justifying him", I'm just trying to think how the character is and why he is the way he is.


He is an abuser of her though, and there has to be a fine line for what we have to justify an abuser. Sure he may have had a reason to get into that situation, but it does not justify that he did it, nor should we excuse it.
The danger of certain kinds of thinking are along the lines of a man assaulted a women because she was dressed really scantly, so how could he be expected to resist her temptation. You may acknowledge the reasoning he gave, but saying something like "justification" treads dangerous waters. The onus should be on the man, not the woman for dressing a certain way and the man not being able to resist.

Even saying that Niina had power over him is still like saying that a baby deer has power over a hungry lion. Maybe technically true, but is using words like "power" really responsible.
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TarsTarkas



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:05 pm Reply with quote
Sounds like you are saying we cannot discuss the character of the Producer, other than saying he is evil.

The poster who responded to you said he wasn't justifying or defending the actions of the Producer, merely that he wanted think why he was the way he is.

Personally, I don't think there is any deep thought into the character. I believe he is just there for the drama of it all.

Though the reviews of this series, has gotten me interested in this series. I didn't think it would be interesting to me.
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DuskyPredator
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:30 am Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
Sounds like you are saying we cannot discuss the character of the Producer, other than saying he is evil.

The poster who responded to you said he wasn't justifying or defending the actions of the Producer, merely that he wanted think why he was the way he is.


I may have misread what they said that they were also not justifying him, from there just being a comma between two statements rather than an "or", with a second comma preluding into saying an interest into how the character is the way they are.

Discussing the character is fine, but I don't think saying that the little girl had power over him, like it is her fault in any way, for the situation he was in, or what he is.
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Panino Manino



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:14 am Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:

Personally, I don't think there is any deep thought into the character. I believe he is just there for the drama of it all.


I agree with this, he exists in this story not to be developed further of discussed in deep, it's just for Niina's (melo)drama, and this is what will make this story (very) bad for the vast majority.
I also don't really like what Okada will do with her character.
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Panino Manino



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:51 pm Reply with quote
#6
Quote:
Sonezaki herself is almost painful to watch. I can't decide if she's truly ready for a romantic relationship and is just conflicted about it or if she feels flattered that someone likes her and thinks that she ought to do something with that. She's still so deeply uncomfortable with the idea of sex (which she can't seem to separate from romance) and what people think of her that my inclination is to say that she's not ready for this relationship she's accepted.


But Sonezaki's story is so simple and conventional.
She is just a late bloomer.
After all that happened in the classroom she is embarrassed and scared of the public opinion and reactions, just that. Isn't obvious that she is preparing herself until the cultural festival to use the whole "confession thing" as an excuse to get officially together with the boy?
My only doubt is if that gyaru will become the single person with whom she will talk about relationships.

Quote:

Probably the most uncomfortable storyline right now is Hongo's weird and inappropriate relationship with Milo-sensei. The fact that he's clearly interested in the adult teacher he was talking to this week is encouraging, but I do wish that he'd stop messing around with Hongo. The blackmail excuse only goes so far here, and by this point he's risking his teaching career far more than if he'd admitted to messing around online in the first place. He needs to shut Hongo down once and for all. Hopefully the female editor will step in and guide Hongo's writing, as well, because as of right now, only Kazusa seems to have any adults she can actually talk to (even if she's not very good at it) and a few of these other girls could really use an ear to hear them out.


Why the female editor can but her male teacher can't? Just because he is male?
Is it really against the rules if he doesn't really do anything with her? This episode confirmed again that Milo wants nothing with Mushroom Head girl, because talking about mushrooms... Milo gave mushrooms to that other teacher. Notice the "symbolism"? (Bravo Okada!)


My complaint is about Kazusa.
Her concept is ok, but her personality and reactions are unbearable. Instead of improving he is getting worse. I know that some people have a hard time during this phase but this is too much Okada!


Now, we already discussed plenty about this, but... I see things.
By my calculations episode 8 will have a scene that spoiler[I too can say that "crosses the line". I hope that the anime will not cut it because that day (23) will be funny.]

[Edit]: added spoiler tags. Errinundra.
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Animegomaniac



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:28 pm Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
This isn’t a “cultural” thing, the director’s behavior is not considered “ok” in Japan.


This is why pedophilia/lolicons are a source of humor in anime comedies; it's a known and recognizable trait but I never said it was "ok", merely tolerated. In "our" "culture", we draw the line at 18 which is why I keep mentioning ages and appearances.

My own feelings on the character, he's creepy and disgusting but calling him a child molester cheapens the term. In that regard, the worst he did was touch her breasts which she herself placed his hand on her.

As to what he did to her mentally, I also have to ask... should children be trained to be actors in the first place? "Here's an important time in your life where you become you but before that, here's how to be someone else!" And then there's the imprinting... which he completely ruined when he rejected her. Even without the perverse angle, he still would have imprinted himself upon her and any following rejection would be devastating?

Perhaps I should be thinking that Niina must be mentally scarred because "we" say she should be mentally scarred? I can't do that. I think she recognizes what happened, what it meant and became stronger for it... but still harbors some emotions she doesn't want to recognize.
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