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HitokiriShadow wrote:

BrothersElric wrote:

And that is exactly why I think that Viz is doing this for the fans, and not just to fill their wallets. I mean, come on man! It's just a measly $2! Can you afford $2!

Anyways, I never meant to be so sappy with my last post, It's just that I think that Viz does more for the fans than they do for themselves, and I think that's the right attitude is all.

You are still giving them way, way too much credit. Quite frankly, Viz doesn't give a damn about us as long as they are making money, most of which comes from more casual fans.

While I don't think Viz is completely selfless and would go bankrupt for their fans (like, say, AN Entertainment), I think you're not giving the enough credit. They're out to make a profit, of course, and there are times when editing needs to be done to protect them from legal action. Viz's releases aren't always the highest quality they can be, but they are usually cheaper than the market standard, and I am willing to sacrifice a little quality for a little money.

As an aside, I love it when people talk about companies like they're just one person. You have to think about where those kind of decisions come from. Is it the translators or the editors? The marketing people, the PR people, the Big Shots? Is everyone in the company conspiring to rip you off and leave you with an edited, poor quality, glorified coaster?

infernus wrote:

Seems like a good idea (reminds me a lot of Live Marketplace), just as long as the subs don't suck. I've seen plenty of fansubbers do better jobs (and hell, make it look prettier too) than DVD subs.

I'm really not trying to start anything here, but how much Japanese do you actually know? And when's the last time you really looked at and compared professional, official subtitles with the fansubs for any particular series. There are some fansub groups that really do put a lot of work into their subtitles, and on they may be just as good or a little better than a standard DVD's subtitles. But, most fansub groups are... not so great. Oh, they get the job done when there's no alternative, but except in the case of dubtitles or an edited release, they're terrible compared to professional work.

TheKurodaVagrant wrote:

Personally, I object to this.

Several of my friends and I have been following the series religiously since the show began (I read the manga before the show and was hooked to that, too). I find it particularly disgusting that Viz has picked up the show midway through. This is essentially extortion; thousands if not millions of fans who have been enjoying the show through fansubs have been grabbed because of the intense, gripping, thrill-a-minute nature of the show. And now we are nearing the climax, and we have been cut off and have to pay to see the rest of the series. There will likely be no other means to see the rest if Viz keeps a close eye out for dissenters.

This situation just reeks. They have a dedicated audience worldwide and they are going to use our addiction to fill their pockets. Smart business tactic, but it's not in the best interests of the consumer. In fact, it seems typical of big businesses to do this.

Ah, the cliche, disgruntled, "devoted" fansub watcher. I was wondering when you'd show up. Rolling Eyes

First of all, Viz is not Big Business. Second, it's not in the "best interest of the consumer" to pay for anything, but I don't know very many people that go into grocery stores and just skip the cash register on their way out because that's illegal, just like downloading fansubs! Japanese companies don't have the resources to really go after all of the Americans that download fansubs, but that doesn't make it legal or right. Ironically enough, since you mentioned School Rumble, Media Factory (which distributes School Rumble) has made it VERY clear that there are to be no fansubs of any of the titles they distribute. But as you've obviously seen since you were downloading fansubs, they don't have any real power to do anything.

Anime is not free to produce, and if you want to enjoy it, you need to pay for it. People that watch it Japanese pay by watching commercials, and by buying R2 DVDs and merchandise. American fans pay by either watching commercials (the FUNi channel, TAN, Adult Swim, etc.), buying DVDs, or very rarely, by legally downloading.

I download fansubs, so I'm not saying they're morally wrong, but 1) no one has a leg to stand on complaining about paying for anime, 2) downloading fansubs as an alternative to paying for legal releases is illegal AND wrong, and 3) the episodes are going to be released "shortly after they air" so you don't even have to wait that long.

I don't think this is going to stop people from downloading fansubs, but it's nice that they're actually offering the service. Like many others, I personally prefer the actual dvds to a digital download; it's fun collecting tangible objects and displaying them on a shelf, and pre-ordering anime gives me something to look forward to in life. If I were to download any episodes, it would probably be just one for a translation sample of an upcoming dvd release. Even if there were no fansubs available for the series, I have the manga to quench my thirst. What I'm really looking forward to is a R1 release of the live action movies...I'd consider paying for a download if it was priced right or offered some kind of rebate on the actual dvd purchase.

In my opinion, it's great that someone's trying to offer an alternative to fansubs rather than just moaning about them. The questions now are Price, Quality and DRM. My thoughts are:

If the price isn't considerably lower than that of DVDs (which includes a hefty retailer's percentage, shipping costs, materials/manufacturing costs, etc. barely comparable to bulk bandwidth costs involved in hosting the episodes), I doubt they'll have much success with the service. If you're going to spend a comparable amount of money either way, most people would prefer to own the physical DVDs.

With access to the master tapes or whatever, there's no reason why the quality shouldn't be better than that of fansubs.

DRM might provide some protection from direct sharing by casual computer users, but if they are trying to win over fansub watchers, (if), they'd probably be best off shunning it altogether. If fansub fans want to find the episodes for free, DRM isn't going to stop them... it'll just provide one more excuse to stick with unofficial versions (or to download non-DRM pirate copies of the official files).

Unfortunately, though, even if it does turn out to be a good deal, I expect that we non-US citizens will be unaffected :/. Pity the Internet can't be a bit more global... they should start licensing worldwide Internet distribution rights separately from geographically-based traditional distribution rights, imho.

I'll probably but the first episode so as to appease my curiosity and hear the dub (if it is in said format), then wait for the DVDs to collect the rest (assuming they even come out)

Why Viz, though?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those "ZOMGG!!!11!! BLEACH AND NARUTO WERE BTUCHED!1!11!!!!!!11!" children, I was just looking forward to buying a Death Note artbox, given the potential it would have. Viz generally handles their properties well, but the one thing about them that has ALWAYS irritated me in regards to their product managment is their inscessent (sp?) lack of artboxes.

This is a slight suprise to me though. As far as I know, Viz has never had a Madhouse title. Honestly, my money was on Geneon. Ah, well. Artbox aside, this is just as good.

The Xenos wrote:

Call me a luddite, but I still prefer spending my money on real physical objects. I don't like paying for something stored on a hard drive.I'm certainly interested in Deathnote on DVD, but I'm hesitant for paying for anything downloaded. The only time I would really consider it is if it was a very small company or band trying to get known. With Viz and Deathnote, I'd rather wait for the DVD format.

I'd havta agree with you, Xenos. As much as I wanna own/see the Death Note episode (from how this article sounds, it seems likely that the episodes'll be Dubbed), I'm quite waryabout buying something permanently that will only exist on your PC as a file, as opposed to actually having a 'hard copy.'

Quote:

the episodes will be available in Download to Own and Download to Rent formats "soon after they air in Japan."

As interesting as this concept appears, and I'm sure many fans'll end up making this endeavor well worth it for Viz, I just don't feel comfortable with doing this myself. So I'll be waiting for it to air in the US, or rent/buying it when it eventually comes to DVD here. Wink

With the advent of iTV and other neat little items that will allow HD to TV transfer there will be a market for something like this. I'm not so into Death Note or any other series that I care to pay a fee each week for episodes though, I've got Netflix for that. However, I will be paying close attention to this.

What gets me is why Viz has to be involved in this at all. Shocked

Youtube, Google, iTunes; there are a ton of broadcast sites out there. Why can't the Japanese Networks come to the table and offer fans in the international community a legal way to watch their shows "subtitled" in their language every week, without needing a middleman licensor. I wouldn’t mind paying a flat fee per-month for access to multiple shows from the various Japanese networks. However, I don’t care to pay for just one show here and there. I think we all know Death Note is hot right now, and it will be used as the test case. If it works and fans are willing to pay $X for access to one show weekly, we will be stuck with that system for a long time to come. If you think about it, each network has a web site – what’s stopping them from uploading eps, or streaming them each week, for a fee? Each of the major Networks in Japan that develop and air Anime series have at least 3 shows in their current line up that have a solid week to week fansub following, they know this… They also know it’s what the fans want. I know there are multiple sides to this issue, but I hate that we fans always end up having to dig deeper into our pockets/pocketbooks, when there have always been common sense solutions to making current Anime available to fans in the international community legally, without having to nickel and dime us. Exclamation

Sakurachan1 wrote:

With the advent of iTV and other neat little items that will allow HD to TV transfer there will be a market for something like this. I'm not so into Death Note or any other series that I care to pay a fee each week for episodes though, I've got Netflix for that. However, I will be paying close attention to this.

What gets me is why Viz has to be involved in this at all. Shocked

Youtube, Google, iTunes; there are a ton of broadcast sites out there. Why can't the Japanese Networks come to the table and offer fans in the international community a legal way to watch their shows "subtitled" in their language every week, without needing a middleman licensor. ~snip~

Expertise. The Japanese production companies probably don't feel confident about setting up shop overseas.

I believe Viz probably approached Madhouse and the Japanese networks with the idea.

As for me, I'll wait to rent/buy the dvds. Moon Phase had a massive amount of animation redone for the dvd release and I'm loving it.

Last thing about Viz. I like the mangas, the anime releases leave something to be desired. From what I've read the first disc of Full Moon didn't have subtitles for the songs at all and the Saikano's opening and ending weren't subtitled. Oh and the box art thing.

If this doesn't have a proper English language track, I'll just wait for the DVDs, thankyouverymuch. >_>

dojikyo wrote:

Sakurachan1 wrote:

With the advent of iTV and other neat little items that will allow HD to TV transfer there will be a market for something like this. I'm not so into Death Note or any other series that I care to pay a fee each week for episodes though, I've got Netflix for that. However, I will be paying close attention to this.

What gets me is why Viz has to be involved in this at all. Shocked

Youtube, Google, iTunes; there are a ton of broadcast sites out there. Why can't the Japanese Networks come to the table and offer fans in the international community a legal way to watch their shows "subtitled" in their language every week, without needing a middleman licensor. ~snip~

Expertise. The Japanese production companies probably don't feel confident about setting up shop overseas.

I believe Viz probably approached Madhouse and the Japanese networks with the idea.

The Japanese production companies haven't even set up domestic internet distribution deals for the most part. They are just starting to get into it. It's not like the US where the brand new episode of south park, lost, csi, etc will be up tomorrow on itunes for $1.99. It's going to take a middleman like Viz to convince them that this is a good idea for them and that their property will not be passed around the internet like a cheap floosy.

So this is Viz's license, I'm not surprised seeing as how many poular titles they're getting now. Naruto, then, Bleach. Now, they get Death Note.

I expected Death Note to get licesned by Geneon, but meh, Viz can do a good job in Death Note as long as they get people suited with a dark voice.

ICv2.com has an article on this that clears up some questions (the big one: the downloads will be subs). Here's the link:

http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/9891.html

(I'm assuming that when they say "The DVDs will be the English dubbed version" they actually mean "The DVDs will include both the English dubbed version and the subtitled version"--there's no conceivable reason to not have subs on the DVDs, especially when they've already been written and timed.)

dojikyo wrote:

Sakurachan1 wrote:

What gets me is why Viz has to be involved in this at all.

Expertise. The Japanese production companies probably don't feel confident about setting up shop overseas. I believe Viz probably approached Madhouse and the Japanese networks with the idea.

I'm pretty sure, about 99% sure, that when the TV anime series started airing, the show had already been licensed by Viz at that point. In fact, I'm sure they may even have had a hand in funding the production.

And Death Note is a Shounen Jump comic. Shueisha publishes Shounen Jump in Japan, and Viz Media is co-owned by Shueisha, so it makes logical sense that Viz Media get first dibs on the stateside licensing deal. With very few exceptions (One Piece, DB/DBZ/DBGT, Black Cat, for example) if it's in Shounen Jump, it's gonna go to Viz.

Strephon wrote:

ICv2.com has an article on this that clears up some questions (the big one: the downloads will be subs). Here's the link:

http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/9891.html

(I'm assuming that when they say "The DVDs will be the English dubbed version" they actually mean "The DVDs will include both the English dubbed version and the subtitled version"--there's no conceivable reason to not have subs on the DVDs, especially when they've already been written and timed.)

Please say that this is a mistake. No Japanese audio with subtitles for the DVD release and English audio? Crying or Very sad

A English audio only DVD release? Crying or Very sad

Hopefully, someone will clarify this.

Yeeeeah, I'm a dub fan and I'd still be pretty mad/disappointed if the DVDs only had the dub, too. I like to watch both, and these days there's no real reason not to include both unless you have a case like Naruto, where you want to make sure the more family-friendly version is available for parents to buy (and they still came out with an uncut version that had both a sub and a dub on it later).

TheKurodaVagrant wrote:

I find it particularly disgusting that Viz has picked up the show midway through. This is essentially extortion; thousands if not millions of fans who have been enjoying the show through fansubs have been grabbed because of the intense, gripping, thrill-a-minute nature of the show. And now we are nearing the climax, and we have been cut off and have to pay to see the rest of the series.

It wasn't midway through - it's currently a little less than 1/3 of the way through, so the climax still has a ways to go. If you're so keen on knowing the story, I don't see why you can't just read the manga.

Anyhow, I'll probably just wait for the DVDs to come out instead of downloading each episode. However, I think this is a good idea, so I'd like to see how it plays out.

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NEWS: Viz Licenses Death Note Anime for Download