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REVIEW: Cannon Busters


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Winger



Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 64
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:52 pm Reply with quote
Why doesn't this series have a page in the encyclopedia?

OK, it was based in an american HQ, but the production was entirely japanese. It is an anime like every other anime we watch. The original language is japanese, the credits are displayed in japanese, etcetera...

It should have a page in the ANN encyclopedia.
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:13 pm Reply with quote
Winger wrote:
Why doesn't this series have a page in the encyclopedia?

OK, it was based in an american HQ, but the production was entirely japanese. It is an anime like every other anime we watch. The original language is japanese, the credits are displayed in japanese, etcetera...

It should have a page in the ANN encyclopedia.


How is it an entirely Japanese production? It's based on an American comic and quoting ANN
Quote:
Thomas is directing and serving as executive producer for the series. He is also writing the scripts along with Natasha Allegri (Bee & Puppycat), Anne Toole (The Witcher), and Nilah Magruder (M.F.K.). Matt Wayne is serving as story editor.


Not saying it shouldn't be in the encyclopedia, but it's not like a Japanese studio picked up the license and decided to make their own project. To me it seems like this production is no different than any other western title animated by a Japanese studio.

Edit: I should clarify that I'm not trying to say the series is any lesser for it (I haven't seen it so I can't comment on it). Just saying that the production of this series isn't the same as say, Vinland Saga or something.
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Winger



Joined: 01 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:57 pm Reply with quote
Covnam wrote:


How is it an entirely Japanese production? It's based on an American comic and quoting ANN
Quote:
Thomas is directing and serving as executive producer for the series. He is also writing the scripts along with Natasha Allegri (Bee & Puppycat), Anne Toole (The Witcher), and Nilah Magruder (M.F.K.). Matt Wayne is serving as story editor.


Not saying it shouldn't be in the encyclopedia, but it's not like a Japanese studio picked up the license and decided to make their own project. To me it seems like this production is no different than any other western title animated by a Japanese studio.

Edit: I should clarify that I'm not trying to say the series is any lesser for it (I haven't seen it so I can't comment on it). Just saying that the production of this series isn't the same as say, Vinland Saga or something.


Well, the creative minds for it were not japanese, but most of them traveled to Japan to work in the series. The production was did in Japan, the original voices were recorded in Japan by seiyuus (Yoshitsugu Matsuoka is the original VA for Philly, not Kenn Michael, for example, and this is definetly a thing that doesn't happen with western animations that are animated by japanese studios), the credits are displayed in japanese (another thing that doesn't happen with western animations did in Japan), etecetera.

Its not the same as Vinland Saga, but it's definetly not the same as Avatar or Castlevania, or even the Saint Seiya remake. And well, Castlevania and the Saint Seiya remake are in the ANN encyclopedia. There is no actual reason for Cannon Busters to not be on it too.
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partially



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 672
Location: Oz
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:14 am Reply with quote
I think this wore its Gunbuster/Diebuster influences on its sleeve more than Bebop or Outlaw Star.

Overall it got a meh from me... too much unexplained or superficially covered. Like all of Philly's backstory was never fully explained, particularly about his family deaths.

And the whole magic stuff was superficial.

Superficial is really just a very good word for what this show was, a mashup of character ideas... In general, it mostly worked, I found the car mecha to be unbelievably moronic rather than "cool" though...
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:12 am Reply with quote
I think this review hit why the show never really worked as well as its many influences.

It wants to have Bebop style characters, it wants to resemble Trigun (seriously, Philly’s gun is Vash’s with blue neon) it wants to have mecha fights resembling Gunbuster, it wants to have Afro Samurai style schizo tech. But it never blends these elements together in a way that is completely natural. Like a kid saw all these shows on TV and just chucked the elements in a blender.
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Takkun4343



Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 851
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:02 am Reply with quote
Beatdigga wrote:
I think this review hit why the show never really worked as well as its many influences.

It wants to have Bebop style characters, it wants to resemble Trigun (seriously, Philly’s gun is Vash’s with blue neon) it wants to have mecha fights resembling Gunbuster, it wants to have Afro Samurai style schizo tech. But it never blends these elements together in a way that is completely natural. Like a kid saw all these shows on TV and just chucked the elements in a blender.

Genre intersections are difficult to do effectively. It requires finesse and thought, plus decent reasoning behind how the genres themselves interact with one another.
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Scalfin



Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 211
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:02 am Reply with quote
Takkun4343 wrote:
Beatdigga wrote:
I think this review hit why the show never really worked as well as its many influences.

It wants to have Bebop style characters, it wants to resemble Trigun (seriously, Philly’s gun is Vash’s with blue neon) it wants to have mecha fights resembling Gunbuster, it wants to have Afro Samurai style schizo tech. But it never blends these elements together in a way that is completely natural. Like a kid saw all these shows on TV and just chucked the elements in a blender.

Genre intersections are difficult to do effectively. It requires finesse and thought, plus decent reasoning behind how the genres themselves interact with one another.


Then maybe they should have started with some actual thought and finished with some basic editing to remove what wasn't working instead of just pouring every half-baked idea in the sausage machine and extruding this.
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Grimvice



Joined: 10 Aug 2017
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:30 am Reply with quote
The thing that annoyed me the most was when the show clumsily cut to the prince and his bodyguard. That didn't need to be shown at ALL.

The appeal of the show was the friends in the car, not some randos doing whatever. It added nothing to the story because the relationship between the girl android and the prince was implied in the ED anyway, and the two plotlines didn't converge until the very end of the seasoning.

Also, they introduced those four villains in like episode 3 or 4, but then we don't see them again until episode 10 or 11, there was no point to introduce them that early in the story.
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Winger



Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 64
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:44 am Reply with quote
Now I've saw that the anime got a page in the encyclopedia. Good work guys.

Also, Aggretsuko Season 2 doesn't have a page until now, and I don't get why. But, this is offtopic.

Grimvice wrote:
The thing that annoyed me the most was when the show clumsily cut to the prince and his bodyguard. That didn't need to be shown at ALL.

The appeal of the show was the friends in the car, not some randos doing whatever. It added nothing to the story because the relationship between the girl android and the prince was implied in the ED anyway, and the two plotlines didn't converge until the very end of the seasoning.

Also, they introduced those four villains in like episode 3 or 4, but then we don't see them again until episode 10 or 11, there was no point to introduce them that early in the story.


I think exposition is the biggest problem of the show. The story itself is actually fine, but the exposition and narrative aren't.
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darkchibi07



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:38 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, I got pretty bored with this show after the first four episodes. Its influences to the early 2000s anime on Adult Swim are REALLY apparent, but as most said before did it had a hard time meshing all those ideas together that becomes its own thing.


Grimvice wrote:
The thing that annoyed me the most was when the show clumsily cut to the prince and his bodyguard. That didn't need to be shown at ALL.

The appeal of the show was the friends in the car, not some randos doing whatever. It added nothing to the story because the relationship between the girl android and the prince was implied in the ED anyway, and the two plotlines didn't converge until the very end of the seasoning.

Also, they introduced those four villains in like episode 3 or 4, but then we don't see them again until episode 10 or 11, there was no point to introduce them that early in the story.


What's bizarre is that in episode 4 where Sam gets "comically" electrocuted, she had a flashback about her past. For some reason, it included scenes of what the prince is doing before and after the palace got attacked and the king getting captured and imprisoned. And those scenes were not in Sam's perspective so it ended up being a weird transitional flashback.


Last edited by darkchibi07 on Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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doubleO7



Joined: 17 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:50 am Reply with quote
I’m curious, is the Kickstarter pilot episode included in these 12 episodes? I never did see it.
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Amibite



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 194
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:22 am Reply with quote
Scalfin wrote:
Then maybe they should have started with some actual thought and finished with some basic editing to remove what wasn't working instead of just pouring every half-baked idea in the sausage machine and extruding this.


Isn't that kind of the point of anime-influenced western media? You like anime to the point you want to emulate it, otherwise you'd just make your work a traditional American cartoon or comic and not bother with getting a Japanese production team, shoving as many references and homages into it as you can, and doing everything you can to get it the highly coveted anime label. These kinds of shows live or die by being the sum of all their parts. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
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Aquasakura



Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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Location: Chesterfield, Virginia, U.S.A
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:47 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The influences on the series are clear, as an overt homage to what made anime cool in the '90s and early 2000s. The most obvious references are Cowboy Bebop and Trigun, with perhaps some Outlaw Star mixed in, but the series as a whole is a mishmash of elements from a broad number of sources, flavored with more American sensibilities in terms of character archetypes. As a result, the series often comes across as an American animated series aping anime aesthetics, although the animation are distinctly Satelight's in style.

The problem with all this eclectic design is that it doesn't come together well to generate consistent world-building. It feels like a mishmash of whatever the writer thought was cool, rather than a lived-in world with cohesive traits.


This is what makes me less willing to give this show a try. I actually had a feeling this anime would turn out the way it did the moment I learn of it.

Part of it could have to do with that unlike with most people (at least from my perspective) my exposure to anime (or at least the ones that were not mainstream) were not shows of the Action and Science Fiction genre but of Drama and Comedy instead. Also growing up in my years of childhood I did not watch Cowboy Bebop, Trigun,Outlaw Star, and Battle Angel Alita (It was not until sometime during my adolescent stage I have seen the first two and I never watch Outlaw Stat and Battle Angel Alita). Another thing is the Americana flavor this show has, but it does not seem like the kind I really resonate with, which looks to be a mix of Western (a genre I feel neutral towards) mix with Urban culture. Granted I am enjoying Millepensee's adaptation of Shoji Gatoh's and Range Murata's Cop Craft which does take place in an area own by the United States and is full with urban culture. Hm. . .I guess it goes back to the fact Cannon Busters is just adding those elements for the sake of it (or I should say because it's kewl) whereas Cop Craft it has a reason to feature Americana elements so it feels more genuine to me.

I certainly can see those who love Action and Science Fiction as well as gravitate towards anime that have more of an Americana and/or Western (referring to the Western hemisphere) feel to it would enjoy this show, but I am not one of those people.

Amibite wrote:
Isn't that kind of the point of anime-influenced western media? You like anime to the point you want to emulate it, otherwise you'd just make your work a traditional American cartoon or comic and not bother with getting a Japanese production team, shoving as many references and homages into it as you can, and doing everything you can to get it the highly coveted anime label. These kinds of shows live or die by being the sum of all their parts. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.


But does it have to be this way? There is certainly nothing wrong with creating a show that takes influences from other stories. After all even anime directly made in Japan are influence by other anime. When you get down to it everything we watch is not really new but a remix of something that came before. It's like the saying goes "nothing is new under the sun" or something like that. However there should be a reason for those influences as well as they should be well organized and focused instead of just spreading them around as a means to appear cool. This is a mistake one would expect of an amateur writer who does not know better to make.
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H. Guderian



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:30 pm Reply with quote
I would have to agree. Its like when i saw RWBY for the first time. "Wants to be anime, but follows the Rule of Cool to a fault."

Its like the creators think they'll only get one shot so everythign is dumped in. A reminder Gunbuster, one of my favorites, was a brilliantly blended show based off previous titles - but in 6 episodes it also became its own thing, and quite a Legend at that.

It is like when you learn a new language, you can learn a few quick phrases, or do the real heavy work. These Western Wannabe Anime just chuck out phrases without knowing the meaning or reasoning behind them. In general.

There's still plenty of trash anime so i don't want to make it seem like Anime is perfect and flawless. The jarring nature of communicating purely in these shorthands is pillar of anime. The new Castlevania was clearly Anime Inspired, and we're not dunking on that as hard.
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Crispy45



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:52 pm Reply with quote
H. Guderian wrote:
The new Castlevania was clearly Anime Inspired, and we're not dunking on that as hard.


All Castlevania did was take the art style and "coolness" factor. It didn't model the main character after an existing anime character or directly copy certain shots and scenes from a variety of anime under the excuse of them being "homages". It's it's own thing
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