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EP. REVIEW: ORESUKI: Are you the only one who loves me?


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Tanteikingdomkey
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:31 am Reply with quote
@micah007
I understand what you are are saying I think, but I have to disagree with you a lot I think.
The problem isn't that neo-joro exist (and he is not perfect) but how he seems to be short sighted and not consider the weight of his actions on those around him, to an insane degree.

For example who is at fault for people pushing pansy and neo-joro together.
Pansy does seem to have a strong personality shift around him due to the time they spent together. But she comes across as afraid of him and his effect on her life from experience. at all other times she seems very (Almost overly) capable of telling people they are wrong and she doesn't want that, and can still tell people even when dealing with the problem that she doesn't want to be with him.
So I think we can assume she was telling everyone to some degree she was NOT INTERESTED in joro romantically.
So what was PANSY DOING WRONG THEN? was she somehow lacking in assertiveness or drive....because that makes no sense. she went to a lower ranking high school and transformed her image to become a different person, and binds her chest every day that takes a lot of effort.
SO why not put that effort into just rejecting people like the twins or her classmates attempts to put them together, or ask neo-joro to tell people that they aren't a thing and get everyone to stop pushing them together. supposedly he would (and did) do this, yet the twins still ask for him to be paired with pansy in high school.

THE ANSWER to that is why hozuki (neo-joro) is in the wrong I think. A year or two later he still can't understand or accept that pansy doesn't want a romantic relationship with her, and everyone knows it, and wants to give it to him because he has some near mind washing level of control of the atmosphere around him and yet he has no concept that he has created it.

To be fair that analysis actually makes me want to vomit a little at how mean spirited it is towards him. as someone on the autism specturm, having someone be seen so negatively because they can't understand the atmosphere or the feelings of others is utterly lacking compassion for them.

But the thing is that, most therapy for autism is basically finding tricks to circumvent/ elevate that lack of natural ability. And currently hozuki is not getting any of that taught to him or dealing with that at all. Instead he is basically just running around and forcing the world and everyone around him to bend to his needs, and is getting away with it because no one feels like they can say anything about it to him.....and that actually makes me jealous in how he can (unintentionally) get away with it, and that is coming from someone who basically pulls the super nice meek well meaning idiot persona as a go to.

PS to the question of neo-joros authenticity that is where I think we hit a really interesting question. I totally believe that he is genuine, but that doesn't make him honest/authentic.
Let me explain "if you really want to protect the person most to you can't worry about getting hurt, The thing you need to focus on is that person right" that is the advice he gives joro. It ignores your own thoughts and feeling I think, or at least I think hazuki's execution of it has him doing that.
This can lead to him basically doing exactly what the twins are doing, which the show calls out as being inhuman in the dinner scene and I think is what pansy sees as unauthentic and fake even though he genuinely does feel and act that way (and causes people around him to act that way). This leads to a bigger question of can you be authentic and true to yourself if you are self sacrificing.

Really the only real difference between joro and neo-joro is that for joro it is an act, and he won't sacrifice his wants and needs for others like hazuki is doing. and that is why pansy loves joro but can't be near hazuki.
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:23 am Reply with quote
TexZero wrote:
What they are saying is that Hose is literally r/NiceGuys. He tries so hard to be perfect that in doing so he comes off as un-authentic and harms those around him because of his desire to be the "perfect at all cost" as opposed to just being authentic.

That's not what "Nice Guys" are. They're people who adopt a performance of being nice in what they expect to be a future exchange for affection and/or sex, and then feel victimized for not having their performance rewarded. They are not being "nice" and "supportive" because it's what they want to do and feel is right, but because they think relationships are transactional, like the fairy tales where the nice guy white knight is rewarded with the grateful rescued princess's hand. Hose wanted Princess Pansy's hand, but he didn't demand it as his rightful reward or flounce off in a huff when he didn't get it.

Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
For example who is at fault for people pushing pansy and neo-joro together.

The people pushing pansy and neo-joro together?
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Tanteikingdomkey
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:35 pm Reply with quote
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
For example who is at fault for people pushing pansy and neo-joro together.

The people pushing pansy and neo-joro together?[/quote]
In middle school her classmates and the twins.
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:45 pm Reply with quote
Yes, the people pushing Pansy and neo-Joro together are the only ones at fault for pushing Pansy and neo-Joro together. Confused
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Tanteikingdomkey
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:17 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
Yes, the people pushing Pansy and neo-Joro together are the only ones at fault for pushing Pansy and neo-Joro together. Confused

So a whole school of people randomly all decided to push them together then.

I am sorry but when more then ten people are bothering someone else because of you, they should step in and try and do something about it, or you should feel a bit guilty about the situation you created.
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:14 pm Reply with quote
By that reasoning Pansy should feel guilty about the situation she created. If she hadn't been so dang popular, Hose wouldn't have had to help her out and fall in love with her. And she perpetuated it by not reciprocating his affections. This is all her fault!

Doesn't that sound stupid? He didn't create the situation of their friends pressuring Pansy. Their friends did. And it wasn't the whole school randomly doing this, it was the small circle of friends that previously had had no ulterior motive in being friends with her. They decided on their own how they would act. It wasn't at Hose's behest.

Why should he feel guilty? It's still not clear if he even knew it was happening, since part of the plan was for him not to know what they were doing. It's not like they came to him and said, "Hey, we're gonna help you get Pansy for a girlfriend, so just wait for it," and he said, "Cool beans, you do that, I'll just be over here." I think if he had known, he would've asked them to stop.

Anyway, I'm done arguing this. The idea that good and kind people are at fault for selfish and mean people feeling bad about not being as good and kind is something I'm never going to buy into. Plus, considering my track record, I know that next week he'll show his true colors and reveal that he's really the manipulative, jerkwad Joro that Joro wanted to be in episode 1, so I'm not going to dig myself in any deeper in his defense. He probably spends the weekends in his dungeon with the harem from another high school that he's hypnotized into following him home.
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michizure



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:01 am Reply with quote
Am I the only one bothered by how Cherry and Tsukimi's original appearance, back in Episode 8 (~15:00-18:30), relates to the current situation?

To recap, Joro is meeting Himawari at the shopping mall. She glomps him; they fall. Cherry and Tsukimi are in the background there, watching.

Joro realizes that he dropped Pansy's book in the incident and goes back to look for it. He runs into Cherry and Tsukimi, still at the site. Tsukimi doesn't want anything to do with him, but Cherry immediately volunteers them both to help look -- and then runs off without asking anything about what the book is or what it looks like.

They come back, having "found" the book -- which Cherry takes out of her bag, rather than carrying it in her hands. They are apologetic about the condition of the book, which could just be Japanese politeness at work, but Cherry had already called "her friend who owns a copy" to find out how very much it was worth.

Cherry is nervous and evasive the entire time, flinching whenever Joro thanks them for their help, and particularly when he wonders aloud how the book wound up so far away from where he and Himawari fell.

I infer from this that Cherry and Tsukimi saw the book when it fell, recognized it (maybe after looking inside) as belonging to Pansy, and deliberately messed it up. After all, Joro returned to look for it right away, and we don't have any indication that it had rained, so how did the book get in that condition? An open question is when Cherry called Pansy to find out how much the book was worth -- certainly after messing with it, but before or after seeing Joro looking for it?

How much of Pansy's behavior towards Joro and his desire to take responsibility for the book is based on her realizing from the phone call that Cherry and Tsukimi are the ones who really damaged it, and not wanting to be involved with them again?

Regardless, these are not the actions of "nice" people, and point to a much darker undertone to the relationship among Hose, Cherry and Tsukimi, and Pansy. Were they bullying her when they thought they could get away with it?

Let me also note for the record just how unusual for a harem rom-com Tsubaki, trap or not, has turned out to be. She has been friendly and helpful to the protagonist, Joro, and his friends, without apparently falling for him or looking for anything in return. The hijinks surrounding her are conspicuous by their absence. My expectations have been thoroughly subverted. I will continue to think of her as a trap in my own head-canon, though, because I think it's even funnier if the writers had that card in their hand and chose not to play it.
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Tanteikingdomkey
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:36 pm Reply with quote
@ gina you are right I ran with the rather large assumption that neo-joro had to have known that the entire school had been trying to get him and pansy together. I would like to point out what I said was if pansy or someone else had actually referenced it (which I had assumed would have to have happened). I honestly think that hozuki isn't actually going to be seen as turning evil but that something else is going to get reveled about the situation. speaking of that situation.

I still contend though that said it is an insanely odd situation and something has/had to be actively fulling it either
A) hazuki was so in love with pansy that everyone at the school and even still that everyone who comes into contact with him realizes it. because he is still telling people that he loves her or he is acting so love struck around her that people continue to hit her over the head because he is. in which case YAY totally his fault then, since she gave him a hard NO.

Or B) the twins or someone else are actively telling people to talk to pansy about getting together with him. if that was the case WHY?!? Now that would mean hazuki is not at fault and is just be made into someone elses pawn to be played around with.
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TexZero



Joined: 25 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:49 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
TexZero wrote:
What they are saying is that Hose is literally r/NiceGuys. He tries so hard to be perfect that in doing so he comes off as un-authentic and harms those around him because of his desire to be the "perfect at all cost" as opposed to just being authentic.

That's not what "Nice Guys" are. They're people who adopt a performance of being nice in what they expect to be a future exchange for affection and/or sex, and then feel victimized for not having their performance rewarded. They are not being "nice" and "supportive" because it's what they want to do and feel is right, but because they think relationships are transactional, like the fairy tales where the nice guy white knight is rewarded with the grateful rescued princess's hand. Hose wanted Princess Pansy's hand, but he didn't demand it as his rightful reward or flounce off in a huff when he didn't get it.


I disagree with your assessment that of Hose based on how the show has portrayed him. To me he perfectly fits the r/NiceGuy mold as when he was rejected he instantly tried to stay close and be as nice as possible to Pansy. That to me isn't just because he's a nice person but because he had another goal in mind.
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micah007



Joined: 25 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:01 pm Reply with quote
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:


I've said all that I think I can say about this but I wanted to tell you I agree with some of your points after thinking about this. For example the autism perspective is an interesting way of analyzing Hose, and a good way to describe a character who's role in events is difficult to characterize.
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Tanteikingdomkey
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:12 pm Reply with quote
micah007 wrote:
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:


I've said all that I think I can say about this but I wanted to tell you I agree with some of your points after thinking about this. For example the autism perspective is an interesting way of analyzing Hose, and a good way to describe a character who's role in events is difficult to characterize.

Thank you, and I do actually agree with you and others on quite a few points, hose is a good person and while our main cast is highly entertaining that doesn't make them good people at all. while I would still say pansy is a good person, if she did the thing she does in another show, it would not take long at all to make her look like yuno gasi or some other yandure. and joro...yay joro is still mostly a good person he is by no means someone you should emulate. so it is totally understandable to take his side I think.

Like I said earlier I think my analysis of the situation is mean spirited to hose, but from my own experience on the autism spectrum it does remind me of situations I have seen with others on the spectrum, if they run around while down the rabbit hole and not being able to see what is going on around them because of their lack ability to see what is happening around them.

I honestly do think that hose is going to actually stay the way he is, the twins are the ones who are actually doing suspicious stuff not hose.
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Treecko Tempo



Joined: 25 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:03 pm Reply with quote
Question for anybody that knows the source material without going into spoilers is the show about to do an anime original ending with the ova or is this just going to be the end of one of the novels and this is just a nice natural ending for for the story as a hole if it does not get a second season.
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Cryten



Joined: 19 Jan 2019
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:05 pm Reply with quote
I really liked the series and I am glad that most of the cast got to be honest. I do wish we could of addressed the feeling of said young maidens and why they so readily switched from Sun to Joro. I am a little frustrated that Pansy is not willing to call out Hose for basically pushing his love onto her despite her rejection of him. I still feel like this series wants to be both a riff on love comedy and still wants to have Joro maintain his lovely girls harem thing so I am a little worried about how itll frame the end of the series. Because in the end Joro wants to do what Hose has done. He wants to keep being with all the girls while also getting his girlfriend.
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:27 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
Next week better have a good excuse for that tag

Not only did they not have a good excuse for it, it was a straight up lie, as that scene, with that lurid predatory grin, was not in the episode at all.

By the time the actual ending rolls around, I won't care. I already don't. I feel a little like Annie Wilkes in Misery, but I really hate being lied to by series for the sake of teasing the next episode. What little good will I had left for this series was spent with that. Since the rest of the episode made no bloody sense either, I'm just glad it's over so I won't be wasting my time with it any more.
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:42 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I can't believe we have to wait until ____ though, I'm so mad.


That is the name of the new Aniplex story and you are the protagonist, be it you watched Oresuki this season or are planning to watch next season any series controlled by them, the will use delaying tactics to pressure you to watch anime in their new best friend streaming service, ain't it lovely? /sarcasm.

Because no matter how I look at it, this series was planned to be 13 episodes from the start and they could have streamed the ending next week but no, let's sit on it for several months and make fans buy the disc while making competitors streaming services pay extra to get the ending. Now we only need some evil chuckles to make this scheme totally cartoony.
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