Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: Fate/Grand Order Absolute Demonic Front: Babylonia


Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Eddy564



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 286
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:57 pm Reply with quote
Great review. Literally agreed with everything. This is shaping up to be the best Fate adaption since Unlimited Blade Works. CloverWorks is really shocking me with the animation and it’s been consistent so far for the most part.

Although, why did you state you wouldn’t recommend the Fate GO game? I realize that it’s not for everyone and does require a lot of time spent and revenue to truly make the most of it, but it’s still a very entertaining medium.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Charou



Joined: 01 May 2018
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:03 pm Reply with quote
Great coverage, and I thank the reviewer so much for taking the time to try to break it all down for those new to the franchise (although I maintain anyone who calls themselves an 'anime fan' should at least do Zero because it's great anime, Fate notwithstanding). This show was not made for newbies, which is interesting because most of these 'gacha adaptations' are all about sucking new supporters in (it worked with Revue Starlight for me -- thanks Sakugablog...). Which means F/GO:B is a strange beast; it's less a long-running on-a-budget advertisement for F/GO and more a 'thank you for emptying your wallets for us, Whales' victory lap. Not to say it won't draw new players, but it's definitely not going out of its way to do so. The fact that the chapter that came before it won't even be out in anime form for a while yet is perfect testimony for this. This one's for the fans.

So with that, there are two things with Babylonia I keep in mind as a 'gacha victim', as the reviewer puts it.

First, I have to constantly remind myself when I'm watching it that this is not normal anime. It is peak stuff, as the sakugablog guys have driven home (bless them for introducing me to the concept of sakuga by way of their Apocrypha coverage) repeatedly. I try very hard not to take for granted just how alive it all feels, even if occasionally it's achieved with a clever blend of hand-drawn and CG background characters.

The second point flows from the first: were F/GO:B not peak anime, a lot of the people watching would have legitimate reason to be angry. More than any other Fate project, the whales funded this one and we've seen how much F/GO makes month to month. In an industry full of shortcuts, hellish work conditions, financial breakdowns and rush jobs, the idea that a production with literally millions behind it wouldn't be something incredible is...distasteful. So while week to week I am wowed and blown away by every aspect of this production, part of me is almost nonchalant about it. It very likely won't topple Apocrypha for me in terms of A-1/Cloverworks Fate because as an A-1 anime Apocrypha struggled and yet shone repeatedly, despite having some really ugly moments and an already less-than-awesome source. F/GO:B has Nasu's writing, Cloverworks as a sort of 'A-1 but with Unlimited Budget Works', all the inherent seiyuu attached to those characters...in short, it was born with all the silver spoons and for it to be any less than dazzling would be unforgivable.

Which is why what should be a minor quibble is a sticking point for me: the overusage of CG for the beasts in episode 1. For large crowds, it's fine. For giant snake-things, a blend is fine. For a few monsters dominating the shot, 100% cg is not fine. If anything has me concerned that The Anime That Thousands Of Whales Built might not be the best it can be, it's the chance of that ugliness returning. I feel bad bringing it up but to not hold F/GO:B to the highest standard is to ignore what it really is, what it really represents.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 1335
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:16 pm Reply with quote
Eddy564 wrote:
Although, why did you state you wouldn’t recommend the Fate GO game?
Because it's an exploitative cesspit where each and every narrative aspect is fine-tuned to enable mindless consumption.

Anyways pretty anime, if shallow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 12901
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:52 pm Reply with quote
Lots of cameos so far, so I've gone and labelled them for the sake of newcomers. Here.

Good review, though for some reason I was extremely bothered by "Fate GO." Better to abbreviate the whole thing and say FGO.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
steelmirror



Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 315
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:14 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Basically, one day, good old King Solomon decided that he wanted to erase humanity from existence, and Chaldea, a contemporary mage organization tasked with protecting humanity, contains the only people left who can stop it. To carry out his plan, Solomon sent 7 Holy Grails (Fate's big magic MacGuffins) and some of his demon friends to various points in the past in order to create 7 Singularities of “wrong” history that can destabilize all of humanity's future enough to completely incinerate it. Mankind's last surviving Master, Fujimaru Ritsuka, has to travel to these points in the past to retrieve these Grails, kill some demons, collapse the Singularities, and set human history back on course.
Okay, as one of the Fate newcomers that this review was talking about, THANK YOU for this quick summary! I've watched the OVA and episode 0 as well as the first few eps of this season, and have read some random Fate discussions and wikis as well in my time as a general weeb, and I STILL never had any idea what the crap was going on until I read this review.

If the writers of the anime could condense their nonsense into dialogue that was on this level of comprehensibility instead of Boobanardo da Vinci talking about rayshifting and quantum entanglement, I wouldn't be nearly as lost. Honestly, that one paragraph was more helpful to my ability to watch this show than however many hours of exposition I've sat through from the actual franchise over the years.

But enough about my bitching about my inability to process Fate esoterica. The show is really, really pretty! If years of banner ads about Fate's mobile game were the price I had to pay to see this level of production value applied to anime girls kicking ass, it was all worth it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eddy564



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 286
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:01 am Reply with quote
FilthyCasual wrote:
Eddy564 wrote:
Although, why did you state you wouldn’t recommend the Fate GO game?
Because it's an exploitative cesspit where each and every narrative aspect is fine-tuned to enable mindless consumption.

Anyways pretty anime, if shallow.


I suppose that’s somewhat valid if you wanted to be absolutely cynical about it. But when you break down a lot of games you’ll come to the same conclusion. That is precisely why I don’t think about the entertainment medium from that point of view.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 1970
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:29 am Reply with quote
To give you further context (and also so you know who is that dying girl Fujimaru keeps thinking of is), you can watch Fate/Grand Order -First Order-. It's not good, but it has Sexy Caster Cu. If that isn't enough for you, then I don't wanna be your friend.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dark_bozu



Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 188
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:35 am Reply with quote
FilthyCasual wrote:
Eddy564 wrote:
Although, why did you state you wouldn’t recommend the Fate GO game?
Because it's an exploitative cesspit where each and every narrative aspect is fine-tuned to enable mindless consumption.

95% of modern culture is made for mindless consumption. The break point is whether it's enjoyable to consume or not. And FGO is fun to play/read, so yeah, it worth to be recommended as mobage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jl07045



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1490
Location: Riga, Latvia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:25 pm Reply with quote
95% of modern culture doesn't follow a business model that exploits addictive impulses and is available to children.

So I am happy that this is available as an anime even if it's not newbie friendly. I do wish they had released Camelot before this though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dark_bozu



Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 188
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:16 pm Reply with quote
jl07045 wrote:
95% of modern culture doesn't follow a business model that exploits addictive impulses and is available to children.

We've talked about mindless consuption. And if you want to switch the discussion to business model, then I won't argue - yes, it's dangerous for people who can't control themselves, just like any game with microtransactions. But if you have a self-control and just want a mobage with good mechanics that allow you to play without spending any dime, that don't use a powercreep or "convenience" tactics - then this is a good choice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 750
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:43 pm Reply with quote
dark_bozu wrote:
95% of modern culture is made for mindless consumption. The break point is whether it's enjoyable to consume or not.


Yeesh. That's a bit nihilistic, don't you think?

I've been free-to-playing Magia Record, which is apparently very similar to FGO, the past few months. I feel like the bigger issue with these games isn't the gambling--they seem to be structured in a way that makes it clear you won't get much out of spending just a little money, you gotta spend a lot to max out rare characters--but more the pay-to-win angle. You absolutely must spend thousands of dollars on these games if you want the strongest possible units (and/or the ideal waifu). People already use money to get insurmountable advantages in real life, and apparently you can do that in fantasies, too.

Though I suspect most whales are not hyper-rich in real life, making these games partly a fantasy where they can pretend to be the 1%. Even in an overly-complex magical historical battle royale mishmash, it's framed around capitalist aspirations. Now that's nihilistic...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zrnzle500
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3608
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:24 pm Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:
dark_bozu wrote:
95% of modern culture is made for mindless consumption. The break point is whether it's enjoyable to consume or not.


Yeesh. That's a bit nihilistic, don't you think?

I've been free-to-playing Magia Record, which is apparently very similar to FGO, the past few months. I feel like the bigger issue with these games isn't the gambling--they seem to be structured in a way that makes it clear you won't get much out of spending just a little money, you gotta spend a lot to max out rare characters--but more the pay-to-win angle. You absolutely must spend thousands of dollars on these games if you want the strongest possible units (and/or the ideal waifu). People already use money to get insurmountable advantages in real life, and apparently you can do that in fantasies, too.

Though I suspect most whales are not hyper-rich in real life, making these games partly a fantasy where they can pretend to be the 1%. Even in an overly-complex magical historical battle royale mishmash, it's framed around capitalist aspirations. Now that's nihilistic...


While I've not played Magia Record, I would agree that pay to win can be just as bad if not worse than gacha mechanics. I've dropped a number of phone games because it felt like the main reason opponents won was because they spent more money, not because they used a better strategy etc. This is actually one of the reasons I like F/GO and have kept with it since it started in the US. There is no player-vs-player competitive element to the game whatsoever, and you can complete the game without ever using the high rarity Servants you would get from gacha, so there is no real pay to win to speak of in the game. In my experience, if a phone game isn't trying to get money from you one way, they're doing it other ways, and gacha is far from the only method or the only concerning one.

As for the anime, I think it is just about exactly what those of us who've played the game would want, not only in terms of the production, but also the pacing. It's being adapting about 1 section per episode - the only exception being episode 3, which covered 2 sections, though one of those was a shorter one - and given the number of episodes (21) and the number of sections (22), it will keep that pace and fully adapt this Singularity.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ronri



Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 47
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:01 pm Reply with quote
While I understand audience criticisms over the dense nature of Babylonia, I think it's unfair to criticize the anime for not outwardly spelling out the main plot so far when this is essentially the penultimate arc of the entire story and it essentially expects you to already know the ins and outs of its narrative beats and structure. In this regard, the anime really does a nice job adapting the story, adding in elements to further contextualize the main cast's plight (Roman, Mash and even the audience-insert). Beyond that, the fight scenes and dynamic character animation even during the smaller scenes were nothing short of amazing and this is easily one of the biggest productions to grace the Fate franchise.

Also I'm happy to say that my time with FGO is nowhere near the hellish gambling nightmare that some users make it out to be here. I myself have been "free-to-play" for more than a year now and I still manage to obtain most of my desired characters in my roster while clearing the first part of the game with them rather handily.


Last edited by ronri on Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jl07045



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1490
Location: Riga, Latvia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:08 pm Reply with quote
dark_bozu wrote:
jl07045 wrote:
95% of modern culture doesn't follow a business model that exploits addictive impulses and is available to children.

We've talked about mindless consuption. And if you want to switch the discussion to business model, then I won't argue - yes, it's dangerous for people who can't control themselves, just like any game with microtransactions. But if you have a self-control and just want a mobage with good mechanics that allow you to play without spending any dime, that don't use a powercreep or "convenience" tactics - then this is a good choice.


What I would want of Typemoon is anything but mobage. And preferably with actual characters instead of Taiga in a costume, Mexican caricatures, lolicon pirates and endless stream of lilies, alters and other wasted potential.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zrnzle500
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3608
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:48 pm Reply with quote
^While I can understand where you are coming from, I still think that is not a fair characterization of F/GO. F/GO has introduced more original characters to the franchise than any other part (and continues to expand), even excluding alters and whatnot. Not all of them are going to be winners, but there are plenty of solid characters to be found. I can understand if you don't like mobile games, but it has made it one of the most accessible parts of the franchise. Or is that a bug and not a feature for you?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group