Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: Ascendance of a Bookworm [2019-10-26]


Goto page Previous    Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 2577
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:11 pm Reply with quote
Bit disappointed that in the end the resolution was possible not because of preparation, negotiation tactics or anything that involved hard work and dedication, it instead was possible because of an ass pull superpower (she really is an isekai protagonist)...

How about Myne love of book let her to read and really understand there bible and she use some theological argument on the headpriest to win him over (or maybe shame him and have him kick out of the church)? Or bribe him using her invention ("hey you wanna convert people to your cause, how about them paper! Can print lots of book for cheap to evangelized")? Nah, she just goes darth vader on his ass, yay violence! Its solve everything! Apparently the all powerful headpriest is just gonna be totally okay with Myne joining the church and no one question that. (so does blue hair guy outrank him to be able to hash out a settlement without his input whatsoever after she just almost killed him? If so, why didn't he do anything when the headpriest was going to execute them all?).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 16026
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:46 pm Reply with quote
^
No, the episode made it clear that the Head Priest is the leader of that particular cathedral and manages day-to-day affairs, whereas the High Priest is probably the equivalent of a bishop or archbishop.

As for most of the rest of your complaints, I don't think you're considering the situation at all. Any negotiating plan Myne had fell apart the moment the High Priest realized that her parents were commoners and thus he could just throw his weight around rather than having to negotiate. From that point negotiations were probably impossible, and things spun out of control too fast anyway. Myne striking out like that as an unprepared emotional reaction seems natural for the circumstances. I also don't at all think that it's an ass-pull; ever since overflowing mana was revealed to be the source of her health woes, I've had the thought about a potentially harmful mana release being possible in the back of my mind. Some have been making jokes about it being equivalent to use of The Force from Star Wars, but that's actually probably a pretty accurate description of what's going on here.

Now, I do also regard with incredulity that the Head Priest can smooth this out enough with the High Priest so that there won't be consequences down the road. But we'll see how things play out going forward.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 2577
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:25 am Reply with quote
Yeah negotiation was pretty much impossible, but that just makes the ultimate resolution worse, since it did ended up with negotiation (except with the lower tier person making the arrangement, blatantly against the arch priest command). I just don't see a single scenario where the arch priest would just accept this situation (the only one being blue hair guy out ranking the arch priest, but like you said the episode makes it clear thats not the case). I think the show would have been better served by not having the arch priest go banana and having a thematically appropriate resolution.

Now the arch priest is going to wake up and go "Holy crap, those bleeping commoner almost killed me, go kill them all" and no one has the authority to stop him. Then what? At best this resolution kicked the can down the road (one I feel the author is just not going to bother addressing, at most we'll get a "oh he got over it once we gave him some cookies"). What else? The blue hair guy negotiate a settlement with the arch priest? Well that require negotiation to be possible, which means Myne should have been able to negotiate with the arch priest.

Oh and I completely forget but in episode 13 Benno revealed he knew the church had magic item that could cure the devouring and that the church was actively seeking more source of mana and he... never told Myne. Gee awesome Benno, really looking out for Myne there. Sure its risky, but considering the other outcome for Myne is death (and she would have been dead if her previous devouring episode didn't happen in a location where she'd end up transported to the guild master house), maybe drop her a word or two about it, no?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yuvelir



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 476
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:51 am Reply with quote
The High Priest thing is hard to swallow but I imagine it's a mixture of him calming down, Myne being a huger asset than they initially thought and him owing one to the head priest for saving his life (he might outrank him, but they still belong in the same social stratum). Maybe also fearing Myne.
But it is still nothing that the head priest could guarantee would go smoothly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Panino Manino



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 464
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:30 am Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
Bit disappointed that in the end the resolution was possible not because of preparation, negotiation tactics or anything that involved hard work and dedication, it instead was possible because of an ass pull superpower (she really is an isekai protagonist)...

I don't think this was an "asspull", it was properly suggested before more than one time that she had strong powers and could lost control to anger and hurt other. She only didn't hurt anyone before because the target of her anger was ther own family and because of this she struggle to control herself, but when the target is some stranger threatening her family the result couldn't be different.

Hell, her whole drama in this season is a strong internal power that she can't control and is killer her and her ordeal to acquire magical accessories to absorb this overflowing power.

About what he is going to do next, we have to wait for the next season, the episode ended before he regained conscience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 16026
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:58 am Reply with quote
Panino Manino wrote:
About what he is going to do next, we have to wait for the next season, the episode ended before he regained conscience.

Pretty sure you mean "consciousness" there. (This is one case where using the wrong word generates an entirely different - but still somewhat applicable - meaning there.) Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 2577
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:02 am Reply with quote
Yuvelir wrote:
The High Priest thing is hard to swallow but I imagine it's a mixture of him calming down, Myne being a huger asset than they initially thought and him owing one to the head priest for saving his life (he might outrank him, but they still belong in the same social stratum). Maybe also fearing Myne.
But it is still nothing that the head priest could guarantee would go smoothly.


He was ready to kill them (and jail Myne to exploit her power) simply for being disrespectful. Now add attempted murder and he's going to calm down about this? They don't need Myne cooperation, so he doesn't have to care about her power they can just chain her and then force her to touch the grail. And even if he's scared of Myne, he doesn't have to go capture her himself, he has minion to do that (not going to be hard considering she'll literally be walking around the hall with him). Plus this is either a situation where she can use the crushing at will now (in which case she doesn't need the church anymore to control her mana) or she can't which mean the headpriest has nothing to be scared of (and they should know that since the crushing is a known phenomena).

As far as the crushing being an asspull, literally no one ever mentioned it, not even the guild master daughter who has the same conditions, you'd think she'd mention something dangerous and potentially useful like that. Not even some sort of mention of peoples with the devouring "bringing misery around them" or being really dangerous.

Honestly I'm guessing this will come down to a deus ex, like the pope will show up and be all "Wow Myne is so cute, leave her alone" and nobody will ask what they would have done otherwise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 16026
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:21 am Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
As far as the crushing being an asspull, literally no one ever mentioned it, not even the guild master daughter who has the same conditions, you'd think she'd mention something dangerous and potentially useful like that. Not even some sort of mention of peoples with the devouring "bringing misery around them" or being really dangerous.

Who would have told her about it? Remember, The Devouring isn't common knowledge. Benno and Freida knew about the condition but it's entirely reasonable that they did not know about The Crushing; in fact, I daresay that people who did know about it wouldn't want that to be common knowledge. (Why let the disenfranchised know that they might have a way to resist their betters?)

Quote:
Honestly I'm guessing this will come down to a deus ex, like the pope will show up and be all "Wow Myne is so cute, leave her alone" and nobody will ask what they would have done otherwise.

We'll see. Again, this is the one point that I absolutely agree is stretching credibility.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Kami-koto



Joined: 14 Feb 2019
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:48 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:

He was ready to kill them (and jail Myne to exploit her power) simply for being disrespectful. Now add attempted murder and he's going to calm down about this? They don't need Myne cooperation, so he doesn't have to care about her power they can just chain her and then force her to touch the grail.

They do need her cooperation. The high priest and the head priest didn't expect them to resist, nor did they even consider that Myne would choose death over leaving her family. So they can't get her mana without some kind of agreement, which the head priest now realizes. Forcing her to touch the grail won't do anything if she suppresses her mana. Of course the old man is going to be pissed, but they need Myne or rather her mana much more than you think. So there is room for negotiation as long as a fellow noble does the negotiating.

meiam wrote:

As far as the crushing being an asspull, literally no one ever mentioned it, not even the guild master daughter who has the same conditions, you'd think she'd mention something dangerous and potentially useful like that. Not even some sort of mention of peoples with the devouring "bringing misery around them" or being really dangerous.

That's because Frieda has significantly less mana, which is also constantly being absorbed by her magic tool, and most importantly she's a far more rational person. It only happens when someone loses control of their emotions, which is unlikely to happen to her. And just gonna mention it, the CR subs messed up there. Anyone can use the crushing if they have mana.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 2577
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:46 pm Reply with quote
[quote="Kami-koto"]
meiam wrote:
They do need her cooperation. The high priest and the head priest didn't expect them to resist, nor did they even consider that Myne would choose death over leaving her family. So they can't get her mana without some kind of agreement, which the head priest now realizes. Forcing her to touch the grail won't do anything if she suppresses her mana. Of course the old man is going to be pissed, but they need Myne or rather her mana much more than you think. So there is room for negotiation as long as a fellow noble does the negotiating.

That's because Frieda has significantly less mana, which is also constantly being absorbed by her magic tool, and most importantly she's a far more rational person. It only happens when someone loses control of their emotions, which is unlikely to happen to her. And just gonna mention it, the CR subs messed up there. Anyone can use the crushing if they have mana.


Myne can't suppress her mana (if she could she wouldn't be dying from it), when they tested her with the grail they literally told her nothing and it worked.

I guess if the sub messed up that explain the crushing not being previously mentioned (can't comment on the Japaneses), the way it was written it definitely sounded like it was something specific to people with the devouring (or at least people who don't treat their mana regularly), although that would mean both the arch priest and head priest should have been able to use it (I'm assuming archpriest is a noble). Otherwise, I don't know, maybe I'm just a really weird person who would actively try to learn as much as possible about a potentially fatal conditions I'd have. But being in Freida position, I wouldn't have left a single stone unturned about the devouring, and so if the head priest knew about it she would have too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HannoX



Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 108
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:57 pm Reply with quote
From the LNs it's clear that spoiler[The High Priest does not just let it go. But he's not the kind to come at Myne directly since she has more than enough power to kill him. Later it becomes known that he bad mouths her to other nobles, hoping to get at her that way. And they really need her mana more than has been revealed so far. I mean, they REALLY need it.]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kami-koto



Joined: 14 Feb 2019
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:03 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
Myne can't suppress her mana (if she could she wouldn't be dying from it), when they tested her with the grail they literally told her nothing and it worked.

She suppresses her fever all the time, which is basically the same. Her mana is killing her because there's a limit to it. All I'm saying here is that she could stop her mana flowing into the grail if she wanted to, which is why glueing her to the grail isn't really an option. Any forceful method would probably kill her though anyway thanks to her weak body.

Quote:
although that would mean both the arch priest and head priest should have been able to use it (I'm assuming archpriest is a noble)

"Proper" nobles can deal with it, but the ones at the church just serve as mana suppliers and aren't taught how to use magic. The head priest is an exception though, but he chose to not stop Myne forcefully and bear it.

Quote:
But being in Freida position, I wouldn't have left a single stone unturned about the devouring, and so if the head priest knew about it she would have too.

The difference is that the head priest is a noble who was taught magic and has access to all kinds of information regarding magic. Frieda is rich, but in the end she's just a commoner. The difference between commoners and nobility is huge and no money in the world can close that gap.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 16026
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:03 pm Reply with quote
Kami-koto wrote:
The difference is that the head priest is a noble who was taught magic and has access to all kinds of information regarding magic. Frieda is rich, but in the end she's just a commoner. The difference between commoners and nobility is huge and no money in the world can close that gap.

Even without magic being a factor, this has been a common reality across many world cultures in many eras. For instance, during the Renaissance in Europe, it would not have been at all unusual for enterprising merchants to have wealth which outstripped that of nobles around them, and yet they were still second-class citizens because the name and lineage, and not the money, was what carried status. Add magic into the picture and the nobles have a further powerful way to insure the exclusiveness of their "club."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Robert Comer



Joined: 18 Mar 2019
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:47 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Kami-koto wrote:
The difference is that the head priest is a noble who was taught magic and has access to all kinds of information regarding magic. Frieda is rich, but in the end she's just a commoner. The difference between commoners and nobility is huge and no money in the world can close that gap.

Even without magic being a factor, this has been a common reality across many world cultures in many eras. For instance, during the Renaissance in Europe, it would not have been at all unusual for enterprising merchants to have wealth which outstripped that of nobles around them, and yet they were still second-class citizens because the name and lineage, and not the money, was what carried status. Add magic into the picture and the nobles have a further powerful way to insure the exclusiveness of their "club."


Exactly. I don't find the arrangement at all odd. Think of the high priest as the spiritual leader of the church, and the head priest the secular (business) side. The head priest would have full authority to make sure everything keeps running fine in the church and staffing, even though he may have to at least show the appearance that the high priest heads the church.

Love the show btw, best anime of the fall by a wide margin. The only problem is I want more of it. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 2577
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:22 am Reply with quote
HannoX wrote:
From the LNs it's clear that spoiler[The High Priest does not just let it go. But he's not the kind to come at Myne directly since she has more than enough power to kill him. Later it becomes known that he bad mouths her to other nobles, hoping to get at her that way. And they really need her mana more than has been revealed so far. I mean, they REALLY need it.]


Yeah that's a very weak explanation,spoiler[ considering this episode he flat out said he was going to kill her parent and throw her in jail. So it was possible then but in the future it'll suddenly become impossible. Even if she has power (something which he already knew she had), he can just have someone whack her from behind and be done with it. It's these kind of situation where someone has to be incredibly powerful one moment and completely impotent the next that I find disappointing.]

And I think some people are really underestimating the power of money, merchant were routinely buying noble privilege in pretty much every society. They'd often bankroll King's war fully expecting to be paid back, and they were for the most part. Here the head priest casually mention this in a regular conversation. It's hard to imagine that merchant couldn't buy that information from a noble, especially since apparently some noble are shun by there family and abandoned in the church. It's not like they'd be asking for some crazy state secret, he just want to know more about a condition that is known outside noble circle. Not to mention, if the crushing is usable by anyone with magic (ie noble) and noble position is assured because they can use magic and commoner can't, well I find it hard to believe that no one noble can do magic.

As far as the anime, I didn't dislike it, but I feel like a few simple tweak could have turned it from a 7 to 9 real easily.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 13 of 15

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group