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EP. REVIEW: Fate/Grand Order Absolute Demonic Front: Babylonia


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JustinTaco



Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 116
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:19 pm Reply with quote
lossthief wrote:
ncikz wrote:
The Fate franchise is terrible and I'm honestly sick of seeing ANN handwaving their own criticisms to ultimately come to the conclusion that yes, the massively popular series that pays them a lot in ad revenue and one which they could never go against the public opinion of, is indeed great despite these criticisms and you should all continue to support it. Especially when oftentimes their reviewers are pretty critical of pandering, fanservice, mishandling of female characters. None of that matters if Fate brings in the big bucks. I hope this isn't considered "impolite" per Teh Rules but I probably won't mind if it gets removed as long as a mod sees it.


Buddy if you think ANN's editorial crew has some long-standing reputation of being nice about Fate stuff, I invite you to read through the longest, dumbest, argumentiest thread in forum history


Was FGO sponsoring ANN in 2015? The English version has been out, what, 2 years now? (according to this author)
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 12913
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:33 pm Reply with quote
jl07045 wrote:
I asked you why people are willing to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on a mobile game even one they like.


Because they want to. I just spent over $2000 on FGO the other week. There was something I wanted and I deemed it worth enough to me to spend that much to get it. I didn't get it in the end but I understood that risk going into it.

Why do people spend thousands of dollars on a new car, a fancy dress, or a luxury vacation? All those things are also temporary and will end some day yet people still buy them. In the end it's their money, their choice.
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dark_bozu



Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 194
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:41 am Reply with quote
JustinTaco wrote:
Ah, yes, Fate, known for it's painstaking attention to historical accuracy. It just so happens they become extra accurate when it involves tits.

I was talked about Ishtar alone and didn't commented about Fate series as a whole - she looks appropriate to ancient goddess of love and war. And come on, she doesn't even have that big tits, so basically no reason to complain about fanservice - actually, she looks like an athlete.

ncikz wrote:
The Fate franchise is terrible

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man". People tends to hate everything popular - it's not related to fate franchise only. MHA, Demon Slayer, Naruto, JoJo etc have a lot of haters. So, I think we should respect other people's opinion, while having our own - if you hate a particular series (fate, e.g.), then just ignore articles about it, don't watch anime/read manga/play games related to this series. Is this that difficult?

jl07045 wrote:
For starters, they are not spending money on things they like. They are spending money on a gambling mechanism in hopes of getting the things they like.

Why not instead put a specific prize for every single character? 2 reasons i can think of from the top of my head: 1) there's a risk that the person realizes that they're not willing to spend a 3 or 4 digit number on a very small part of the game if the information is upfront; 2) gambler's fallacy - people tend to misunderstand the odds and often impulsively pay more than they intended.

So why they are willing to spend so much?
1. Because they consider that worth of investment? Sure, some may, maybe a lot. The next question to those people is why do they think it's a good investment if they could buy all the rest of Typemoon works combined for the amount they've spent on FGO. Is it so much better? When I've seen people being asked this type of question, many become evasive. Sunk cost fallacy comes up sometimes.

2. Because they are misled by a lack of information on how much it costs. There's a teensy tiny button on the gacha page that you can push to find out what are the odds of getting that or another card. SSR Servant on rateup is 0.7% per roll iirc. Gambler's fallacy makes people believe that somehow the odds increase the more they roll, but of course it's always 0.7% per roll. Originally developers didn't disclose the odds at all, but there was a push to force the industry to reveal them.

3. Because they are prone to addiction or impulse shoppers who have trouble keeping their spending under control.

1) You're talking about mobage in general, not about FGO particularly. Why do you think people are willing to spend money on this game? Basically all mobages have this mechanism, yet a lot of them aren't that popular and got axed in a months. FGO works just like any popular live-service game: devs provide interesting content and fans are willing to spend their money on it, if they find it enjoyable. What's different compare to other mobages: content is story-driven, devs constantly improve the game and try to make new events unique, so you won't get a impression that you've played the same content times and times again. Trust me, fgo fans would eat devs alive, if they would try to push stupid BS like Bethesda or if they would go against their rules (no ranking system, no MMO elements, no pay2level up systems).

2) Which prize are you talking about? Maybe you meant price? If that's it, then I can explain - it would brought less revenue and wouldn't work with free-to-play game model. For example, I didn't spend a penny on NA, yet I got 10 SSR servants - if they would be sold for a price instead, I won't be able to get anything at all, without using my money. I would rather prefer a game, where I can use any character, even with low rarity, so I won't feel a need to roll servants with high rarity. And FGO is exactly like this - you can use them even in "end game" content.

3) I buy TM-related staff like doujinshi, figurines, OST, BDs, CDs, games etc. But in the end everyone decide for themselves, what are they want to buy and what are they enjoy more. In a week I spend around 7-10 hours on FGO and usually I don't farm, but enjoy battles with my characters or story. Therefore, in month it's around 30-40 hours. I usually spend 100-300$ in a month on FGO, depending on events, story, characters etc. Sometimes I don't spend anything, if I already got characters or in case I don't interested in characters on rate-up.

4) Dunno about others, but I keep a record of money that I spend on FGO. In last 3+ years on JP I spent around 4k$. Previously I spent those money on games, drinks, parties etc.
P.s. It's 1%, not 0.7%. 0.7 was a chance to pull a rate-up SSR among other SSR, so it was basically a 70% chance to pull a rate-up servant (instead of "spook") if you got lucky with 1% to summon a SSR altogether. It 0.8 on JP right now, btw.

5) Nope, like I said - I spend a fixed amount of money, don't go overboard even if I failed to summon a desired servant. And all my friends are like this - I never heard about anyone of them going into debt because of FGO.
To me all those money akin to... donation. Yep, when you donate to a streamer that you enjoy, you don't expect anything in return - this is just a goodwill from your part because of all content that this streamer is producing. Yep, I could feel salty if I got a shit summons, but I don't think about my money as "wasted", because I play and enjoy FGO everyday and want to support creators. And I think devs understand this, because they keep improving this game, keep creating more difficult characters (in terms of production) and more variable (with bringing something new in gameplay, without ruining game)
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steelmirror



Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 341
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:37 pm Reply with quote
I never really "got" why people are willing to spend so much money on a game like FGO, but all it takes is for me to compare my own spending habits on the hobbies I do enjoy to put it into perspective. I play Magic the Gathering, the paper card game. I have probably legitimately spent $2,000-4,000 on the game in the 20 years I've been playing it, and I'm planning on dropping another $150 or so pretty soon to finish out a new deck. That is a fair amount of cash for something that is entirely for fun, but I've generally found it to be a worthy use of my expendable cash budget.

Whether you watch movies in the theater (a movie a month or a Netflix account is gonna run you about $2,000 in the same 20 year time period), or you travel for fun, or you buy gear for a hobby like rock climbing or kayaking, it helps to bring the FGO thing (and other mobile game whales) into perspective.

Not my vice personally, but as someone addicted to cardboard crack, I really can't throw any stones at anyone who spends without endangering their fiscal stability.
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dark_bozu



Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 194
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:55 am Reply with quote
steelmirror wrote:
I never really "got" why people are willing to spend so much money on a game like FGO, but all it takes is for me to compare my own spending habits on the hobbies I do enjoy to put it into perspective. I play Magic the Gathering, the paper card game. I have probably legitimately spent $2,000-4,000 on the game in the 20 years I've been playing it, and I'm planning on dropping another $150 or so pretty soon to finish out a new deck. That is a fair amount of cash for something that is entirely for fun, but I've generally found it to be a worthy use of my expendable cash budget.

Yeah, you're right. It's not a matter about "how much", but "what are you spending money on". If this is something you're enjoy a lot, something you're a fan of, then you won't feel bad because of your huge spendings. Once I spent a 5$ on a mobage that I don't actually played that much, basically dropped, yet I got tempted with "great deal, only today, buy this in-game currency package and get a ticket for a random super rare character" - honestly, I still feel bad that I've spent it on something I didn't care already.
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jl07045



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1499
Location: Riga, Latvia
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:37 am Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
Why do people spend thousands of dollars on a new car, a fancy dress, or a luxury vacation? All those things are also temporary and will end some day yet people still buy them. In the end it's their money, their choice.


They spend on a new car because they need a means for transportation or as a status symbol. They buy a fancy dress because they want to look good for their partner or other people, since they'll get praise or recognition (or maybe they feel it's expected of them). They spend on a luxury vacation because they want to relax away from the routine or have a new experience.

You want to spend money on FGO because... you want what? Story is available free of charge. You can get enough Servants to advance it just fine. You wanted to possess a specific servant and spend 2000 dollars trying to get it? I'm not convinced most people actually want to think why they would want that.

If you (here meaning you in general sense not specifically user "Vaisaga") recognize the reinforcement and reward mechanism in these types of games, if you recognize the actual psychological need that playing FGO fulfills, if you understand what else you could've accomplish with the money you've spent here, and still decide that you want to do that, then you're off the hook as far as I'm concerned. And it's not really my hook, it's your own and of the people that care of and are concerned about you.
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dark_bozu



Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 194
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:47 am Reply with quote
jl07045 wrote:

You want to spend money on FGO because... you want what? Story is available free of charge. You can get enough Servants to advance it just fine. You wanted to possess a specific servant and spend 2000 dollars trying to get it? I'm not convinced most people actually want to think why they would want that.

If you (here meaning you in general sense not specifically user "Vaisaga") recognize the reinforcement and reward mechanism in these types of games, if you recognize the actual psychological need that playing FGO fulfills, if you understand what else you could've accomplish with the money you've spent here, and still decide that you want to do that, then you're off the hook as far as I'm concerned. And it's not really my hook, it's your own and of the people that care of and are concerned about you.

Exactly, there's no reason to spend money on FGO - I played just fine for 6 months on JP and had a lot of fun before I decided to spent my money. I didn't drop those money just to get a servant - I saw that devs were putting a lot of efforts in this game and its content. Here's what Nasu said about events (I think it sounds much better compare to what I wanted to write):
Quote:
Nasu says that he thinks that with smartphone games, the gameplay consisting of the same things all the time makes players quit. They cannot remove the foundation on which the game is based, though, and so continuously try to improve the quality of the game and outdo what came previously, which becomes harder as time goes on


I think that excitement about this game is one of the reasons behind it's success. This is how game, manga and anime sales work. I mean, you could pirate a manga, anime or game, yet you choose to buy it - why would you pick an expensive route? Or you don't have to donate a money to a streamer that's affiliated with twitch (partner). I suppose the answer would be to support creators and this is exactly the same to me when it comes to FGO.
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 12913
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:37 pm Reply with quote
jl07045 wrote:


They spend on a new car because they need a means for transportation or as a status symbol. They buy a fancy dress because they want to look good for their partner or other people, since they'll get praise or recognition (or maybe they feel it's expected of them). They spend on a luxury vacation because they want to relax away from the routine or have a new experience.

You want to spend money on FGO because... you want what? Story is available free of charge. You can get enough Servants to advance it just fine. You wanted to possess a specific servant and spend 2000 dollars trying to get it? I'm not convinced most people actually want to think why they would want that.


I want a specific waifu (and occasional husbando) to have with me on my journey. To be able to get the right strategy that allows them to beat a tough boss. To be able to put them on my support list and show off. To be able to have them in My Room and listen to them fall for me through bond lines. To be able to open the game and bring myself happiness by seeing their smile.

Sure, I can experience some of that through YouTube videos or saving the JPGs, but it becomes special because they're actually mine.
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2098
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:37 pm Reply with quote
JustinTaco wrote:

Ah, yes, Fate, known for it's painstaking attention to historical accuracy. It just so happens they become extra accurate when it involves tits.


Well, thanks to FGO there is a very historically accurate doujin by shindol about nero and boudica.
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dark_bozu



Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 194
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:50 pm Reply with quote
Also, worth to note a part from Shizuka Kurosaki (aniplex producer that works on FGO) interview:

Quote:
大変だったことは……ウルクの風俗描写でしょうか。制作当初は、紀元前2655年のウルクと言っても、人々はどんな家に住んで、どんな服を着て、どんな仕事をして、露店では何を売っていて、何を食べているのか……。資料が無く、さっぱり分かりませんでした。ただ、この物語はそんな「メソポタミアの人間の営み」が後のストーリーの重要なポイントになってくるので、おろそかな描写は絶対にできない。そこで、自分たちで海外の文献を買ったり、博物館に行ったりしつつ、当時のメソポタミア事情に詳しい考証の方に参加してもらい、当時の風俗が分かる資料をいただいたり、絵コンテや作画のアドバイスをいただいています。フィクションではありますが、風俗描写は結構忠実に描かれているかなと思います。

google translation:
Quote:
What was tough was ... a description of Uruk's customs. At the beginning of the production, even if it was called Urk in 2655 BC, what kind of house people live in, what clothes they wear, what work they do, what they sell in the stalls, what they eat ... . There was no material and I didn't understand. However, in this story, since “the human life of Mesopotamia” will become an important point in the later story, it is absolutely impossible to make a rough depiction. So, while buying overseas literature and going to the museum on their own, they participated by a person who had a detailed examination of the Mesopotamia situation at the time, received materials that understand the customs of the time, advice on storyboards and drawing Have received. Although it is fiction, I think that the description of customs is drawn fairly faithfully.

So, the staff behind this adaptation put a lot of efforts to recreate a mesopotamian culture as close as possible. Kudos to them for this work!
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jl07045



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1499
Location: Riga, Latvia
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:41 am Reply with quote
Ziggurats are temples not palaces, that's something kids learn in school. The creators simply made it Gil's palace, because it's iconic.
Writing at that time was used for keeping accounts, literature started to show up centuries later. So while it's credible to think that Gilgamesh would know how to read (probably unlike most historical monarchs of the period), people would not give him reports on clay tablets, they would convey the necessary information directly as is respectful towards the monarch.
The illustrations of Gil and Enkidu back in ep 3, I think, didn't feel Mesopotamian at all, just vaguely Middle Eastern.
I'll give them a benefit of doubt about the clothes, Gil apart.

But sure, they got the mud bricks right.
I'll give them kudos for the Royal Game of Ur the kids were playing, since that wasn't strictly necessary to include.
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dark_bozu



Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 194
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:54 am Reply with quote
jl07045 wrote:
Ziggurats are temples not palaces, that's something kids learn in school. The creators simply made it Gil's palace, because it's iconic.

Did they state it's a palace? Because I think this was just another attempt from Gil to piss off gods and show his disrespect, especially after what they've done to Enkidu.
P.s. So, after a quick research, I think it's understandable why Gil decided to change a temple of Uruk into his palace lol.
So, according to Tablet 7 of Epic...
Quote:
In Enkidu's dream, the gods Anu, Enlil, and Shamash are confabbing. Anu says that, because Gilgamesh and Enkidu killed the Bull of Heaven and Humbaba, whichever one of them chopped down the biggest tree in the Cedar Forest must die.

And Anu was a deity of Uruk. Maybe it was a revenge? Or maybe Gil just despise/reject those gods?
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2098
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:38 pm Reply with quote
poor poor fgo,
not only are it's weekly reviews subject to a weird schedule; it does not even has an option in the new anime menu, which I assume it should , since it has this page animenewsnetwork.com/review/fate-grand-order-absolute-demonic-front-babylonia/.152511
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FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 1361
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:12 pm Reply with quote
Too busy grinding the latest event I guess lol
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blameitonStarBlazers
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 67
Location: Westchester, NY
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:10 pm Reply with quote
maximilianjenus wrote:
poor poor fgo,
not only are it's weekly reviews subject to a weird schedule; it does not even has an option in the new anime menu, which I assume it should , since it has this page animenewsnetwork.com/review/fate-grand-order-absolute-demonic-front-babylonia/.152511

That’s just a simple automation code. If there’s been no post made to the review page in X days, the title is automatically dropped from the New Anime menu. It’s so they don’t have to manually clean up the list at the end of each season. But, yes, it always alarms me when a series I love suddenly goes missing from the list.
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