Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: Fate/Grand Order Absolute Demonic Front: Babylonia


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
HAL14



Joined: 01 Apr 2018
Posts: 118
Location: Heart of africa
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:49 pm Reply with quote
Zerreth wrote:
jr240483 wrote:

Quote:


However genuine these little moments between Ishtar and Ritsuka end up feeling, though, it's still hard not to roll my eyes at the transparency of the harem antics.


you REALLY cant be surprised by this at all my friend!

for one thing this is a fate series , which unlike F/Z, Apocrypha and extra, F/GO have an MC who more or less have the EXACT same personality as Fate/Hollow Ataraxia's Shiro Emiya so the psuedo harem antics will be apparent! and with the inclusion of the tsundere goddess ishtar/rin, its going to be more in common than ever in the anime considering that the original rin have a fondness of boys like shiro & fugimaru, which in turn have been one of the pet peeves for gamers of BOTH F/GO & Granblue Fantasy!

BOTH anime versions are clearly using the transparency of those potential harem scenarios deliberately when the video games had ZERO TRANSPARENCY of those psuedo harem antics.

personally it shouldnt be an issue, but keep it too long then eventually F/GO will have the same quandry scenario as akamatsu did when it came to seperating their new projects (F/GO & UQ HOLDER) from their original sister series (FSN & Negima)


This could've all been avoided had they used the female protagonist instead of the male but all we get is a cameo nod


Even if you use a female character in FGO your dialogue and interactions remain the same, so the series would still be a harem. At its bare bones, the premise of the show/game is: regular joe surrounded by (almost exclusively) good looking people who all either like them or think they are special ("behold the last master!" x10) and obey almost all their commands. It would be harder to not make it a harem regardless of the MCs gender.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yurigasaki



Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 131
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:42 am Reply with quote
HAL14 wrote:
Zerreth wrote:
jr240483 wrote:

Quote:


However genuine these little moments between Ishtar and Ritsuka end up feeling, though, it's still hard not to roll my eyes at the transparency of the harem antics.


you REALLY cant be surprised by this at all my friend!

for one thing this is a fate series , which unlike F/Z, Apocrypha and extra, F/GO have an MC who more or less have the EXACT same personality as Fate/Hollow Ataraxia's Shiro Emiya so the psuedo harem antics will be apparent! and with the inclusion of the tsundere goddess ishtar/rin, its going to be more in common than ever in the anime considering that the original rin have a fondness of boys like shiro & fugimaru, which in turn have been one of the pet peeves for gamers of BOTH F/GO & Granblue Fantasy!

BOTH anime versions are clearly using the transparency of those potential harem scenarios deliberately when the video games had ZERO TRANSPARENCY of those psuedo harem antics.

personally it shouldnt be an issue, but keep it too long then eventually F/GO will have the same quandry scenario as akamatsu did when it came to seperating their new projects (F/GO & UQ HOLDER) from their original sister series (FSN & Negima)


This could've all been avoided had they used the female protagonist instead of the male but all we get is a cameo nod


Even if you use a female character in FGO your dialogue and interactions remain the same, so the series would still be a harem. At its bare bones, the premise of the show/game is: regular joe surrounded by (almost exclusively) good looking people who all either like them or think they are special ("behold the last master!" x10) and obey almost all their commands. It would be harder to not make it a harem regardless of the MCs gender.


I think it's disingenuous to act as if there's no difference in tone or dynamic between a female protagonist in this situation and a male one. In fact, a big reason I've been disinterested in the Babylonia anime, despite it being my favorite main story chapter so far, is precisely because I knew what the story would reek of when presented with an MC as bland as male Ritsuka.

Male power fantasies of being surrounded by super hot powerful babes are dime a dozen in anime and that is the problem here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HAL14



Joined: 01 Apr 2018
Posts: 118
Location: Heart of africa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:12 am Reply with quote
yurigasaki wrote:


I think it's disingenuous to act as if there's no difference in tone or dynamic between a female protagonist in this situation and a male one. In fact, a big reason I've been disinterested in the Babylonia anime, despite it being my favorite main story chapter so far, is precisely because I knew what the story would reek of when presented with an MC as bland as male Ritsuka.

Male power fantasies of being surrounded by super hot powerful babes are dime a dozen in anime and that is the problem here.


As i already mentioned dialogue and interactions rarely change, so if you think ritsuka in the anime is bland: fine. But in the game there is no diff b/w the male and female MCs.
Also a difference would be in personality not gender because a lot of the servants have established they like their master regardless of their sex/gender, so the way they treat the MC wouldn't change drastically if they used the female MC, the only difference would be in the response. So do you think a female MC would be more/less aware of their servants feelings because their female or because of a difference in personality from ritsuka?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jl07045



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1499
Location: Riga, Latvia
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:45 pm Reply with quote
Granted, a male power fantasy with a female protagonist would be funnier, but the character would be just as shallow, so *shrugs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
#903453



Joined: 29 Dec 2019
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:24 am Reply with quote
Quote:
The opening sakuga salvo is short but very sweet, although it's marred by an unfortunate translation mistake. Fate-verse Enkidu is canonically nonbinary (their gender in the game's bio is literally listed as “-“), and the game's English translation uses they/them pronouns for our clay friend, so Gilgamesh shouldn't be saying “he” in reference to them. Funimation still has the wrong translation at the time of writing, but hopefully it gets fixed soon.

About this, Gilgamesh always uses otoko (男), which is a word only used for man, to address Enkidu. You can hear this word clearly in the anime
Hence it's not a translation mistake but more like Gil's way of talking
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2098
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:26 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
. I suppose, too, that there's something quaint about the billion-dollar behemoth of FGO still being unable to escape the sometimes-awkward pacing of its humbler visual novel roots.


now that you mention it, yeah. Also, multibillion, please.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4055
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:57 am Reply with quote
maximilianjenus wrote:
Quote:
. I suppose, too, that there's something quaint about the billion-dollar behemoth of FGO still being unable to escape the sometimes-awkward pacing of its humbler visual novel roots.


now that you mention it, yeah. Also, multibillion, please.


and cause of this, the series will NEVER EVER go back to its source materials roots outside of psuedo harem pandering!

Quote:
FGO is a visual novel, so most of its scenes end up being a bunch of talking heads against a static background. That's fine for a VN, but for an anime, there's no reason to make your characters deliver exposition cooped up in a single room. There are more dynamic and creative ways to integrate that information, and if you have to restructure the plot a bit, so what?


CAN YOU BLAME THEM!? after the backlash they face in social media for having parts of ep 10 so unfaithful towards the source materials which in turn force that episode's director to resign, you really cant be surprised or blame them for making ep 12 like this!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 1361
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:21 am Reply with quote
Quote:
While Babylonia has started its second cour in a more plodding manner than I would've hoped, humanity's last stand against <REDACTED> is quickly approaching, and with it should come some more excitement.
Wow, I can't believe you spoiled anime-original readers like that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1252
Location: Clemson, SC
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:21 pm Reply with quote
jr240483 wrote:
maximilianjenus wrote:
Quote:
. I suppose, too, that there's something quaint about the billion-dollar behemoth of FGO still being unable to escape the sometimes-awkward pacing of its humbler visual novel roots.


now that you mention it, yeah. Also, multibillion, please.


and cause of this, the series will NEVER EVER go back to its source materials roots outside of psuedo harem pandering!

No, it is because, as a writer, eroge was never his area of interest to begin with. As Nasu has stated on numerous occasions, he felt a VN was the best vehicle (of the limited self publishing options) he had for telling the kind of stories he wanted to tell then. Since the only successful VNs then were eroge, he said he really no choice but to embrace the genre for his early works. But it was clear he was already moving in a different direction when he gave Urobuchi the freedom write Zero the way he did.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Izanagi009



Joined: 20 Oct 2014
Posts: 402
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:12 am Reply with quote
jr240483 wrote:
maximilianjenus wrote:
Quote:
. I suppose, too, that there's something quaint about the billion-dollar behemoth of FGO still being unable to escape the sometimes-awkward pacing of its humbler visual novel roots.


now that you mention it, yeah. Also, multibillion, please.


and cause of this, the series will NEVER EVER go back to its source materials roots outside of psuedo harem pandering!

Quote:
FGO is a visual novel, so most of its scenes end up being a bunch of talking heads against a static background. That's fine for a VN, but for an anime, there's no reason to make your characters deliver exposition cooped up in a single room. There are more dynamic and creative ways to integrate that information, and if you have to restructure the plot a bit, so what?


CAN YOU BLAME THEM!? after the backlash they face in social media for having parts of ep 10 so unfaithful towards the source materials which in turn force that episode's director to resign, you really cant be surprised or blame them for making ep 12 like this!


Time out, what was the backlash with Episode 10? that was the episode with Quetz right? I thought it had very stylish presentation and handled the meaning and contents of the game while adding it's own visual flair
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ryomanagare



Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 61
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:19 pm Reply with quote
Yeah this perfectly captured the sudden whiplash I felt playing Babylonia.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2098
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:52 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I think I'm going to have to talk more about this franchise's occasionally-fraught relationship with womanhood next week.

no please, this franchise is cruel to both males and females and having a feminist view on it just cheapens the discurse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ThatMoonGuy



Joined: 13 Oct 2017
Posts: 141
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:40 pm Reply with quote
maximilianjenus wrote:
Quote:
I think I'm going to have to talk more about this franchise's occasionally-fraught relationship with womanhood next week.

no please, this franchise is cruel to both males and females and having a feminist view on it just cheapens the discurse.


To be fair, Nasu himself has commented on this before saying that he feels like he has some trouble writing female characters. I think he improved a lot on this recently and the Saber Wars II event shows this a lot with the friendship between Space Ishtar and Calamity Jane. The way he handles characters like Tamamo no Mae and Nero is also pretty intricate and complex. His early works tend towards the schlokcy specially regarding sexual assault (although if argue the best handling of this topic on his writings is in Tsukihime) and there's no way to deny that the violence against the male and female bodies can be pretty different in nature (see the oft quoted scenario with Medea and Saber in FSN).

That saaaaid I really don't get it when people act like this is a Nasu specific thing and not something that happens generally in Japanese fiction. Hell, Nasu isn't even the worst offender among the Type Moon writers. That honor goes to Urobuchi who made every single woman in Fate/Zero either a proxy for the men around then or an incompetent fool (Saber). Urobuchi's handling of Saber in FZ is disgusting and given the stuff he wrote In Psychopass and his Godzilla trilogy, I think it wasn't an isolated case.

If you look on the topic of violence against woman in Japanese fiction you begin to see some rather disturbing patterns, some of which are actually reflected in real life.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cheshire1501



Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:22 am Reply with quote
[quote="ThatMoonGuy"]
maximilianjenus wrote:
Quote:
I think I'm going to have to talk more about this franchise's occasionally-fraught relationship with womanhood next week.

His early works tend towards the schlokcy specially regarding sexual assault (although if argue the best handling of this topic on his writings is in Tsukihime) and there's no way to deny that the violence against the male and female bodies can be pretty different in nature (see the oft quoted scenario with Medea and Saber in FSN).
.

You mean his "sexual assault suvivors are potential psychopaths" trope?
[quote="ThatMoonGuy"][quote="maximilianjenus"]
Quote:
That honor goes to Urobuchi who made every single woman in Fate/Zero either a proxy for the men around then or an incompetent fool (Saber).

Yeah, the incompetent fool that's the most sympatheitc character in the show (either her or arguably Waver), because characters making bad decisions make them stupid, as if guys in Fate Zero aren't dumbasses that cause every bad thing in the plot (heck in the original novel he makes Kirei sound like an a person I disagree with politically), with the fun little implication that all women would be better without them (I'm including Matou Zoken in this)
Is not perfect, for sure (hi Aoi), but is miles ahead of what Nasu does (see his statements on Utena to see how far off point he is on female character writing)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ThatMoonGuy



Joined: 13 Oct 2017
Posts: 141
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:30 pm Reply with quote
Saber is not a person who makes mistakes in FZero, she's a bumbling idiot who's made to look incompetent whenever she's having a confrontation with a man. The Kings Banquet is a whole scene that's all about making she look like a chivalry obsessed King who could never compare to Iskandar or Gilgamesh when, in fact, she was anything but. Saber losing her temper when confronted by them is very out of character when one consides how she handled Camelot in TM lore.

As for the first point, I will not dispute it. Sakura was poorly handled in the same way that Fujino was. Kohaku was the better use of the same trope, by far. [/code]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 6 of 7

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group