Forum - View topicINTEREST: Stars Align ED Animation Allegedly Copies Dance Choreography Without Permission
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Expias
Posts: 176 |
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Is it just me or is there some extreme creator content imbalance over creative thought and authorship of stuff like this?
Both of the dancers apologized "for the trouble" after having TBS contact them. Like, it's not their fault. https://twitter.com/miko02xxx/status/1187342881477951489 https://twitter.com/melomelochin/status/1187314413373517824 |
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rahzel rose
 Subscriber Posts: 824 |
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This is really just disappointing. My heart sunk the first time I saw the comparison videos. I wonder where things will go from here.
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fathomlessblue
 Posts: 345 Location: Manchester, UK |
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On one hand, of course the ending animation director look inspiration from real life footage. I'd be shocked if they pulled all that out of the air.
On the other hand, & obviously the most point, is why on earth did they think they could get away with this without at least asking, let alone compensating the dancers. I mean broadly speaking they're fellow artists, so you'd have thought they would show respect to the effort behind other people's output? *suddenly considers the state of the animation industry re: paying artists what they're due* Actually, never mind. Nothing about this shady practice surprises me in hindsight. |
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Greed1914
 Posts: 4422 |
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Yeah, I think you've got it right. Even if, from an artist perspective, they knew they shouldn't do it, the pressure to do things quick and cheap probably won out. |
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rizuchan
 Posts: 974 Location: Kansas |
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This is something I've been genuinely wondering about... I seem to remember an old comparison video between fight scenes in Cowboy Bebop and Naruto that were nearly identical, and the explanation was that Naruto didn't copy Cowboy Bebop, but rather, they both lifted the fight choreography from the same old kung-fu movie, and nobody seemed to bat an eye other than just like "Oh huh, that's interesting". How exactly is this case different? Don't get me wrong, I would personally say that the kung-fu movie needed to be credited too. I was just kind of under the impression that this kind of thing was pretty common in the animation industry. |
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Ming Yi
Posts: 207 |
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It's more of a social norm in Japan. Even if it's not their fault, people are generally expected to be apologetic for causing others to be concerned... seems like in this context they apologized for causing their fans to worry about them or "hurting" fans/staff of the anime. |
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Niyari
 Posts: 341 |
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did they copyright these dances or what? they're hardly unique
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partially
Posts: 702 Location: Oz |
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The problem becomes that a lot of the time it is only a small group or a single individual "in the know". You guys indicate it is the entire production that knows this is happening. Most often it is a small group, poorly paid, overworked, rushing to get a job done well. They are hardly going to turn to their bosses and say, "can we just copy this?" because the answer will usually be no, and it just looks and feels bad. So they are hardly going to ask for an individual to be credited.
It is therefore usually a retroactive rush to explain things by the executive IF it is found out. Which leads to some quick and lousy excuses, "it's an old kung fu movie, it's okay". |
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partially
Posts: 702 Location: Oz |
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The problem isn't the copyright. Dances are notoriously hard to copyright anyway. The problem is the production very clearly copied the movements and sequence of the videos in question. And in doing so never asked permission to do so or gave credit where credit was due. Legally there is likely no real issue. Ethically it is wrong, reflects bad on the production and just looks incredibly lazy. As you say, the individual moves are hardly unique. So why did the production not make their own? |
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Яeverse
 Posts: 1140 Location: Indianapolis |
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if it was just one it would have felt like coincidence, or that they somehow independently synthesized the dance, but two separate dancers, is suspicious.
Surprised they wont pull the ED since its causing controversy and bad press. |
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AtoMan
Posts: 161 |
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Except they are. The first video that was copied was literally the aforementioned Chika dance from Kaguya-sama's third episode. So it's a copy of a copy, to be precise. Last edited by AtoMan on Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:29 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Utsuro no Hako
Posts: 1034 |
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Under the Berne Convention, you don't have to register a copyright (though it's extremely helpful if you sue for infringment), but simply commit your work to a fixed form. Theoretically, you own the copyright to everything you post here, and I'm infringing by quoting your message. But what that means for dance moves, I don't know. With photography, writing and music, what constitutes a fixed form is pretty obvious. But do these guys need actual written choreography, or is the video enough? That's a tough question. |
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Kougeru
 Posts: 5527 |
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As parts? No. But as a whole, it's very unique. Also, from this very article...
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ranran-001
Posts: 534 |
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Individual dance moves, i.e. like an arm or leg motion or a spin, or even that Carlton dance(see Fortnite controversy), are not copyright-able when it's not complex enough, But, if you take more than a few moves in the same sequence of the original, then yeah that's likely going to be copyright infringement. But I'm just going off American copyright cases, I have no idea how Japan law views dance routines. The examples that were posted on the dancers' twitter feeds looks like the show took way more than one dance move, they took a sequence of several moves, same frame of composition and even the rhythm. |
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Rika Hue
 Posts: 147 |
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I've once heard a phrase: "Ask for forgiveness, not permission". I'm not endorsing this thought, but trying to use it as a jumping off point to understand why this happened.
As 'partially' said earlier, production was rushed, and communication wasn't good, maybe even riddled with lies. Chances are that they didn't have the funds to compensate the dancers either. Maybe they knew it would come out into the open, and then the dancers would be compensated / credited. This is where the 'forgiveness not permission' comes in. That is not an excuse though. Again, I'm trying to figure out what whoever was responsible or in charge was thinking. But, as you can see, it is a futile effort. All we can do now is wait for an official statement.
It's too early to say that it won't be pulled. I also though it is going to be pulled, but if they pay and credit the dancers, then they can still use the dancing sequences. This news does leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth about the show, but I still want to watch the rest of it. |
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