Forum - View topicINTEREST: Gundam Creator Tomino Criticizes Shinkai Works For Lack of Sexual Intimacy
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AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
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I think it's worth pointing out the massive difference between a Gundam show and a romance. It's nice if we see relationships treated seriously in war or action movies but I don't think that many people would complain if that material is not done well because it's not the main focus of the show. On the other hand, when you have a show whose whole purpose is romance and the physical aspect is curiously absent that sticks out like a sore thumb. In my opinion, a romance which shies away from the mere mention of physicality in a relationship is about on par with a mecha show which shies away from the mere mention of combat. People don't expect physical intimacy from a Gundam show, thus it's no problem if it is absent. People do expect it in the context of romance. |
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Seiya0890
 Posts: 185 |
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Fair enough, but debatable. An anime with 50 eps has more than enough time to add romance even just a little (like I said in Tomino's Gundam there is nothing), so Tomino is not in position to complain. There are some Gundam with romance (SEED, 08 MS Team,...) |
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AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
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I do agree that there is plenty of time to incorporate romance into a long show, and I also agree that such a thing could improve the show too. Heck, one of the examples I posted earlier--Trigun--is a far shorter show, and I found the episode with the sexual interlude to be a really good one. But there's a difference between something being a nice bonus versus it being something expected. And I think that's what Tomino is complaining about. He's saying that it doesn't make sense to have a show whose entire premise is romance only to curiously avoid one of the major parts of a serious romance. If a show like Gundam lacks physical romance the show may be worse-off because of it, but it doesn't undermine the show's fundamental premise. On the other hand, a show specifically about a couple's romance has a fundamental shortcoming if it tiptoes around the idea of physicality. I don't think there's any hypocrisy on Tomino's part here because he's not making the type of shows where this content is expected, whereas Shinkai is. |
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Seiya0890
Posts: 185 |
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Yep I understand your point, and do partially agree with it. Most MCs fight for the people they "love", of course not always romantically but its actually more lame to do so many shows just to fight for friends... Iirc the only Gundam where a guy fought for a girl was Unicorn... (and yet no romance) But to come back to your point, we can turn around and say we expect lot of things from a Gundam show : deep characters, characters growth, kizunas, interesting scenario, amazing fights, a logic in the way the events unfold,... I don't think Tomino fulfilled any of them. Ok Char is really charismatic but that is all. (the seiyuu helped a lot) |
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FllayYamato
Posts: 3 |
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Oh saw this and have to agree.. like really make an account to agree with u.. Destiny sucked cos they killed the person who made Seed interesting in the first place.. also romance wise kiraxflay was an ace imo. People had a reaction on it. Both negative and positive and that's how u make a good story. One that makes people think. Not just bubblegums and rainbows. Too predictable. |
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shiitake
Posts: 9 |
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Well, apparently I was quoted in the author's twitter and some people criticized my comments in this article, so I will try to respond to them here.
First, as for the parts of my comments taken as "toxic" and a sign of my rudeness, frankly I will admit that was done in an impolite manner. My use of language got unnecessarily ”toxic" as I happened to see the situation where Tomino's words based on the incorrect translation was not only just laughed at but was also criticized by people, but that was surely my fault. That being said, this is not the first time I thought their handling of ANN article translated from Japanese sources was inappropriate. One comment in the replies brought out Murakami Haruki as the case where translators are required to exercise their "creativeness", but that clearly doesn't apply to this case dealing with social and factual issues that require more literal and accurate translation. As for the claim that the reason why Tomino is sometimes accused as misogynist in anglosphere is not due to the translation of the doujinshi but his works: of course people can interpret his works like that, and I have no intention to deny the fact that people could do in that way. But meanwhile, I have seen the translation of the doujinshi has been often cited as the direct/indirect evidence of his misogyny (from my observation though). Regardless of how Tomino's works could be interpreted, we should say it is not good anyway that the mistranslation is distributed broadly on the online and even used as a kind of primary source to back and consolidate the particular view further, in the first place. Anyway, while It is a fact that Tomino's view toward woman sometimes can be problematic, I have to say that kind of the discourse that simply wraps it up like "he is a misogynist" is too cursory and simplistic. I believe his works are more than that. As for my argument that Tomino's Japanese is unconventional even for Japanese and hard to be translated: when it comes to this, all I can do is just advise people to actually read or listen to a kind of his interviews though, one good example I could offer is that Tomino's speech in the mantan web article that this page cites. It is safe to say for most Japanese that speech feels unnecessarily circuitous and hard to grasp what he meant to say in the some parts. But as I repeatedly said, it is a fact that unconventional style constitutes a part of his charm that is also what you can see in his works (by the way, this is not limited to a kind of interviews). Anyway I still do not change my initial stance that the translation is wrong and keeps contributing to misleading readers about Tomino, and even the "corrected" translation is wrong as I pointed out in the above comment, but I only guess the authority to decide what is correct is left entirely up to you in this case. (it seems like the line was directly taken from the source material that the author actually got but still I don't think that translation is correct. The literal translation of "アニメってこういうものもあったんだ" is "I didn't know there was this type of anime", and note that there are no words that mention "in the past".) Lastly, as for this: 日本語でできるならそのほうが遥かに楽なんで、むしろ歓迎しますよ。 |
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shosakukan
Posts: 292 |
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Staffers of Anime News Network often use so-called matome sites like Yaraon and Hachima Kikō as the sources for Anime News Network articles. They may not know problems related to matome sites. How about your explaining matome sites-related problems to ANN staffers? Probably ANN staffers don't even know the recent incident where an editor for Kōdansha retweeted a Yaraon's tweet and was criticised. Perhaps Anime News Network does not have resources and abilities to always conduct so-called dokuji shuzai (a journalist's collecting information from scratch by himself/herself, rather than copying/translating information which another journalist or even a 'layman' has collected) about anime/manga-related things which happen in Japan and resorts to depending upon matome sites and translating what matome sites have said. 〈独自取材〉をするだけのカネもヒマも能力もあんまり無いんじゃないかってことです。 |
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Seiya0890
Posts: 185 |
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My reaction with Flay was actually bad since I am KiraXLacus shipper ^^ but yeah I wished Kira showed more feelings toward Lacus just like he did with Flay. |
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Heishi
 Posts: 1317 |
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Late to the party, so I’ll offer my thoughts on this issue. I actually agree with Tomino here.
It would be nice if relationships in anime went beyond first base. Let me give an example: if I wanted to make an anime movie, say a sequel to my favorite yuri anime, I wouldn’t really shy away from the sexual content. What I would do is slap an R18+ rating, which is the supposed to be the equivalent to the R rating we have in the US. That, I believe should be enough to give someone enough freedom to portray a movie’s sexual content, albeit doing some limitations, so that it wouldn’t be accused of being a straight up hentai. |
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FllayYamato
Posts: 3 |
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[quote="Seiya0890"][quote="FllayYamato"]
That's true I hope he did. (But he lost all his emotions on destiny. Barely even talking). The relationship had a strong base, she hates him because in the beginning she already dislikes coordinators, there's these fights with their lives on the run but Kira won't fight seriously because it's with his best friend. And there's the death of her father. She hated him to the point where she used him to kill and wishes for him to die as well. But as the story progress we saw her change and get jealous and feel scared for him. Even risked her life to save Yzak and Dearka when she was in the dominion. Totally far from where she started. If we actually get a new story with that depth and not just, i hate him cos he is better than me in class or cos he's mean or cos his a bully.. i think we would enjoy anime more. The writers should know that we as the audience grow as well.. But if I'm in their shoe they might also want to keep us to the time we started watching anime. (But Kira/Flay had a bed scene when i was a child tho so...that's like 15years ago ) 
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kae kurono
 Posts: 102 |
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I agree & disagree with you to an extent mainly because kurono's love did indeed develop through his interactions with tae, but his sex with her was a catalyst to focus on returning home back to her as well he did stop wanting to get laid afterwards.
i don't think i said that i believe i meant gantz has characters that developed through sexual interactions, i wasn't specifically talking about just female characters any character in general counts in my book.
What? His development during the buddha arc was important but its not like his interactions with other characters after that wasn't essential as well as the series went on. So yes kurono having sex with tae caused him to understand what mattered most to him in his life, but also he started to grow basic human compassion for once in the series, his drive to survive was because of the buddha arc, his sense of human compassion was because of tae. And sorry i'm a bit late to reply btw. |
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kae kurono
Posts: 102 |
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I prefer flay over lacus even tho i'm on episode 21 so far, lacus seems too bland & nice.
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FllayYamato
Posts: 3 |
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That's true. She doesn't have a good character development. But I guess we are the few ones who liked Flay. Also since your are in ep 21, I won't say much yet.
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 5913 |
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[quote="kae kurono"]
So yes kurono having sex with tae caused him to understand what mattered most to him in his life, but also he started to grow basic human compassion for once in the series, Not for nothing but if he needed to have sex with a girl who he saved from a threat he helped create, to push his character in a more positive direction to me that's not good writing. It's literally "let's have this sex scene in here because why not"? To say nothing of it making pretty clear that the writer doesn't what else to do with his female characters. Not that Oku was doing them any favors before this.
Eh no biggie. |
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kae kurono
Posts: 102 |
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that's not a argument at all on gantz having poor writing just because you don't like it or because the style of its deft writing doesn't flow or jall very well with your sensibilities, which i see showed very commonly from detractors of the gantz. Coming up with very flawed arguments to try to prove why they think the series is bad & than get corrected & shown they wasn't paying close attention when they were reading it. i disagree with you completely on everything here kurono's development ticks all of the reasonable boxes of good character writing. He's flawed but human but he changes & grows very organically but cynically. Kurono did not purposefully caused that alien from coming back & killing his own class room you make it sound like he did, especially at that point in gantz kurono & readers wasn't even aware if aliens would hunt & get back at players at all let alone at kurono's very own school house anyway.
What are you even talking about did we even read the same series? in comparison to other series Gantz has some damn good interesting female characters mainly for the fact they are very human instead of being character tropesy, but like a lot of detractors i don't think you see how realistic they are depicted in the series, let alone as to why that's good thing for them, but lets say even outside of that we have bad ass females like Mary McLane or reika's critical thinking contributions in the Oni Aliens arc or other arcs, the series does good by its females.The girl you can point to as being poorly treated is tae but even than its a little suspect on the readers part on your view of her since from my point of view and some other readers who think she's not a bad character at all, she's really realistic & normal not really meant to be written in a typical character trope way, she even knows how to draw really well & seems to be a otaku & have possible goals of being a mangaka which from a character writing perspective gives tae her own personal agency outside the main mc kurono, in comparison to other female characters in other manga & anime series that's good. took me awhile to post back but here it is at least sorry but even if you don't care to post back at this point i at least provided my short counter argument as to why gantz is often unfairly misunderstood & criticized.....again. At least as far as you criticized it in your posts. Also this "let's have this sex scene in here because why not"? No Gantz is a adult seinen manga there's nothing wrong with it having characters love making & sex. it sounds like to me your just a prude who doesn't like that there were sex in it at all. Too bad but that's what help made the series great for a lot of us fans of gantz in general more anime & manga should have more sex in its romance just like in gantz & or nozaki ana anyway. |
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