Forum - View topic
INTEREST: Gundam Creator Yoshiyuki Tomino Elaborates on His Criticisms of Makoto Shinkai's Weatherin


Goto page 1, 2  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Zeino



Joined: 19 May 2017
Posts: 742
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:04 pm Reply with quote
And most of your Gundam works end with the protagonist's actions not meaning much in the long run as the world of the Universal Century keeps on being terrible. So, hypocrisy in what you are preaching here much, Mr. Tomino?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 2932
Location: Here!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:11 pm Reply with quote
Tomino and Martin Scorsese would get along swimmingly. There’s this disdain for escapism, this desire to shove people’s faces in the dirt and grime of reality and go “this is here. It’s not going away. Do something.” A more cynical person would call the approach foreboding or nihilism.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
12skippy21



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 769
Location: York, England
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:12 pm Reply with quote
Jealousy towards more popular directors aside, I do agree with the point he is making. This is not just an issue in anime though, the over abundance of superhero movies can be a similar argument. We seek collective agreement in shared emotions rather than acting on them.

Do not agree with his preference towards Disney characters though, Mulan and Esmeralda are more my pace. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
#885205



Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:24 pm Reply with quote
That Shinkai's movies are like I novels is unbeknownst to him, a massive compliment. Focusing on introspection and looking within to tell a story with actual authentic characterisation and personal development is extremely rare in anime.

Gundam like most anime fall into the category of employing the "big event happens and character changes as a direct response to their conditions" when in reality people aren't like that.

Shinkai is successful despite exploring the same themes because no one else is exploring human relationships, time, perseverance and growth in a way that all humans can deeply connect with. Anime in general could look to Shinkai characters for a bit more realism rather than the caricature of a human being that most characters are.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Romuska
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 596
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:30 pm Reply with quote
This is most definitely an “okay Boomer” moment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zeino



Joined: 19 May 2017
Posts: 742
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:30 pm Reply with quote
Beatdigga wrote:
Tomino and Martin Scorsese would get along swimmingly. There’s this disdain for escapism, this desire to shove people’s faces in the dirt and grime of reality and go “this is here. It’s not going away. Do something.” A more cynical person would call the approach foreboding or nihilism.

Scorsese's snobbery about what constitutes as cinema aside, I think there is a difference between pointing out that Disney/Marvel's seemingly never-ending strangle-hold on popular culture is having a harmful effect on other art and telling people that they shouldn't waste their time on fantasies at all and should just get out and do something, anything.


12skippy21 wrote:
Jealousy towards more popular directors aside, I do agree with the point he is making. This is not just an issue in anime though, the over abundance of superhero movies can be a similar argument. We seek collective agreement in shared emotions rather than acting on them.

Except Tomino here believes that it's not really possible to really change the world with said emotions and people should just muddle through their lives as best they can while doing small helpful acts. That is a defeatist attitude exactly as the interview called it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Commander Cluck



Joined: 02 May 2019
Posts: 120
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:43 pm Reply with quote
Zeino wrote:
And most of your Gundam works end with the protagonist's actions not meaning much in the long run as the world of the Universal Century keeps on being terrible. So, hypocrisy in what you are preaching here much, Mr. Tomino?


He's talking about real people though, not just fictional characters. Hence why he points to elementary school students actually going out to clean litter and garbage on the beach while a lot of modern self described young activists just post on social media and don't actually do anything but thinking getting hashtags trending and patting themselves on the back.

As far as Weathering With You is concerned, I don't consider it a defeatist view on climate change, I consider it more of a realistic view on the topic Although I can see why people would conflate the two.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1744
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:46 pm Reply with quote
Zeino wrote:
And most of your Gundam works end with the protagonist's actions not meaning much in the long run as the world of the Universal Century keeps on being terrible. So, hypocrisy in what you are preaching here much, Mr. Tomino?


Tomino has no control over what other people do with UC Gundam following the stories he made, so calling him a hypocrite over that is pushing it. In fact, Tomino even admitted at Anime NYC just last weekend that he created G-Reco's Reguild Century in response to the fact that the people of the Universal Century never learn their lesson.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Panino Manino



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 390
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:07 pm Reply with quote
"He's not wrong, you know..."

I talked about this immediately when I watched "Weathering With You".
I liked the movie, it was fun, entertaining, but the "messages", whatever they were bothered me deeply. It felt "irresponsible", even.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 2063
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:14 pm Reply with quote
If I'm entirely honest, I'm not sure I understand why there is this current trend in journalist interviews of asking older directors what they think of modern directors and pop culture trends.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8173
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:31 pm Reply with quote
No "sexy animated character" in any Gundam francise. Un-ah, not a one. Nope. Rolling Eyes
Shinkai started his anime career doing stories of unrequited love starting with "Voices of a Distant Star" right up to "Garden of Words".The usual moral of his earlier movies seems to "yeah life sucks , it's too short and there's no happiness."After watching it makes you feel like, what's it all worth? Might as well step onto the tracks of a speeding train. Rolling Eyes Though at least there was finally a sort of winning couple in GOW.
Quote:
"And yet the boy's hand never reaches the girl's crotch."
Shinkai doesn't need to do that. He's a family man, beside in most of his movies chance would be a fine thing. There are tons of hentai doing that and more.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Marzan



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 415
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:29 pm Reply with quote
Romuska wrote:
This is most definitely an “okay Boomer” moment.


That’s uncalled for.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fathomlessblue



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 160
Location: Manchester, UK
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:42 pm Reply with quote
Zeino wrote:
And most of your Gundam works end with the protagonist's actions not meaning much in the long run as the world of the Universal Century keeps on being terrible. So, hypocrisy in what you are preaching here much, Mr. Tomino?


I'm not exactly sure how you jumped to that rather extreme interpretation. The very fact the majority of his UC works involve fighting, to little or no success very against the crushing weight of an unfair universe seems pretty relatable to how change often occurs in the real world. I mean you could call it nihilistic, but has long as people have the motivation to try and change things there's always a ray of hope. In that regard his approach to Gundamm and his view of people, as described by the interview, seem to match up pretty well.

Now whether Tomino, or indeed the Gundam franchise, is the best spokesmen for that cause is another matter entirely, but as someone who tends to appreciate non-defeatist works of nihilist-themed fiction (Oh hey there, Yoko Taro), I'll take a flawed work in that vein over another of Shinkai's comforting, bittersweet dreams (although maybe Weathering with You will surprise me).


Zeino wrote:
Except Tomino here believes that it's not really possible to really change the world with said emotions and people should just muddle through their lives as best they can while doing small helpful acts. That is a defeatist attitude exactly as the interview called it


You're clearly misinterpreting the article. The interviewer called Tomino accusation of people looking inward as defeatist, which as a blank statement would hold an element of truth. However, he then offers examples of how people can break out of that cycle, which most definitely isn't rebuked in such a manner.

Look, most people can't save the world on their own. They can't halt climate change, nor can they solve socio-political injustices, whether it be corporate greed/corruption or the subjugation of people's personal rights. Nor to do most people have the appetite or follow-up solutions to enact a true revolution. What we can do is promote smaller changes, either as individuals or groups, which might be small on their own, but if people share that attitude among others, cultural shifts can be achieved. As Tomino himself states, "...passing that attitude on to children is a way of confronting the world's problems. By doing that, the world can be changed without looking inward or through sparking revolution".

Those aren't the words of someone with a defeatist attitude


Last edited by fathomlessblue on Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:16 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fathomlessblue



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 160
Location: Manchester, UK
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:59 pm Reply with quote
Considering the absurdity for which Tomino is often known for, his thoughts here come across as surprisingly lucid and articulate. I suspect he heard the backlash against his initial comments and actually gave some thought in wording his opinions more carefully this time around.

Honestly, I can't really find much fault with his views. As someone who often enjoys iyashikei and romantic shows, it would be disingenuous to pretend the the sheer volume or popularity of such tropes doesn't hint at some less than flattering interpretations. I mean Tomino singles out Shinkai, but consider the amount of shows every season about a stand-in self-insert becoming the top dog of a literal 16bit JRPG stand-in. You really can't look at their unparalleled domination in the current anime climate and then claim his point about people looking inwards is pure nonsense.

But wow, he sound's so childishly jealous over Your Name's success. It's almost charming.


Last edited by fathomlessblue on Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:20 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fathomlessblue



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 160
Location: Manchester, UK
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:10 pm Reply with quote
Marzan wrote:
Romuska wrote:
This is most definitely an “okay Boomer” moment.


That’s uncalled for.


Otaku have been shouting variations of "shut the hell up, old man!" at Miyazaki & Anno for years, despite their prominence and lasting effects on the industry, whenever they say something that might encourage self-examination. With Miyazaki in particular, people have always used the fact that he's grumpy & tactless to avoid actually engaging with his opinions, so when someone comes along with more delicacy (I can't believe I'm actually saying that about Tomino!), those folks have nothing else to fall back on but memes.

Thank goodness, ANN doesn't promote pic-spam.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group