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The List - 5 Best Ladies of My Hero Academia


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DavetheUsher



Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 505
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:13 pm Reply with quote
Gray Lensman wrote:
I always thought the issue with Naruto was how Sakura seemed to have Invincible Fist of the North Star when it was time to flip out on the knucklehead but reverted to Wuss Slaps of the Useless Punk when an actual adversary showed up.


That's common tsundere power. Their powers only work on the idiot MC. Laughing But Sakura's deal was stated many times: she's a healer. Healer nin are supposed to keep out of danger. At least one time I remember she did want to fight but Kakashi scolded her and said if she went down then the rest of them would be in trouble after the fight when they needed healing so she needed to stay back. Same thing with most of the other female nin in the series who are more scouting/support roles. She's a great healer, it's just people who complain about female characters in shounen only value them based on how many opponents they defeated not how well they do their support roles.

Momo has one of the most potentially broken Quirks in MHA, but she's kinda stupid and doesn't use it very well. Or the mangaka can't because then the manga would be kinda boring and she could solo every villain they meet. If a villain had her Quirk, they'd easily be an endgame-tier villain of the series with a broken, OP moveset. But female heroes aren't really meant to be the focus of the series. There's no real reason for Horikoshi to focus on them because some westerners complainers. It's a shounen manga, and if it's not something that will appeal to boys then he probably won't do it. Which usually means fanservice while the guys do all the cool stuff.
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Scion Drake



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 941
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:24 pm Reply with quote
DavetheUsher wrote:
Gray Lensman wrote:
I always thought the issue with Naruto was how Sakura seemed to have Invincible Fist of the North Star when it was time to flip out on the knucklehead but reverted to Wuss Slaps of the Useless Punk when an actual adversary showed up.


That's common tsundere power. Their powers only work on the idiot MC. Laughing But Sakura's deal was stated many times: she's a healer. Healer nin are supposed to keep out of danger. At least one time I remember she did want to fight but Kakashi scolded her and said if she went down then the rest of them would be in trouble after the fight when they needed healing so she needed to stay back. Same thing with most of the other female nin in the series who are more scouting/support roles. She's a great healer, it's just people who complain about female characters in shounen only value them based on how many opponents they defeated not how well they do their support roles.

Momo has one of the most potentially broken Quirks in MHA, but she's kinda stupid and doesn't use it very well. Or the mangaka can't because then the manga would be kinda boring and she could solo every villain they meet. If a villain had her Quirk, they'd easily be an endgame-tier villain of the series with a broken, OP moveset. But female heroes aren't really meant to be the focus of the series. There's no real reason for Horikoshi to focus on them because some westerners complainers. It's a shounen manga, and if it's not something that will appeal to boys then he probably won't do it. Which usually means fanservice while the guys do all the cool stuff.


You say that about Sakura yet her most iconic & beloved moment in the entire franchise is engaging the Akatsuki Sasori alongside Chiyo in a quite epic brawl as she punches the shit out of all his puppets with her bare hands while fighting off a deadly poison.

Suffice to say, that whole spiel that “she’s a healer, she shouldn’t be in direct combat” is complete & total horseshit.
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Oggers



Joined: 29 Nov 2017
Posts: 364
Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:45 pm Reply with quote
DavetheUsher wrote:
Momo has one of the most potentially broken Quirks in MHA, but she's kinda stupid and doesn't use it very well. Or the mangaka can't because then the manga would be kinda boring and she could solo every villain they meet.


Momo definitely isn't stupid. She may be naive when it comes to how middle and lower class people live since she's so rich, but she's the top student in her class and she can use her Quirk effectively. Her Quirk isn't as broken as all that, because she needs to know the exact molecular makeup of whatever she's making (hence why she always needs to carry around that encyclopedia with her), her power is limited by her food intake, and she needs time to make and use whatever she creates. Her Quirk is very versatile, but it does come with drawbacks and she's not a very physical fighter, either.
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Kisuke525



Joined: 05 Nov 2019
Posts: 191
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:45 am Reply with quote
DavetheUsher wrote:
Gray Lensman wrote:
I always thought the issue with Naruto was how Sakura seemed to have Invincible Fist of the North Star when it was time to flip out on the knucklehead but reverted to Wuss Slaps of the Useless Punk when an actual adversary showed up.


That's common tsundere power. Their powers only work on the idiot MC. Laughing But Sakura's deal was stated many times: she's a healer. Healer nin are supposed to keep out of danger. At least one time I remember she did want to fight but Kakashi scolded her and said if she went down then the rest of them would be in trouble after the fight when they needed healing so she needed to stay back. Same thing with most of the other female nin in the series who are more scouting/support roles. She's a great healer, it's just people who complain about female characters in shounen only value them based on how many opponents they defeated not how well they do their support roles.


Momo has one of the most potentially broken Quirks in MHA, but she's kinda stupid and doesn't use it very well. Or the mangaka can't because then the manga would be kinda boring and she could solo every villain they meet. If a villain had her Quirk, they'd easily be an endgame-tier villain of the series with a broken, OP moveset. But female heroes aren't really meant to be the focus of the series. There's no real reason for Horikoshi to focus on them because some westerners complainers. It's a shounen manga, and if it's not something that will appeal to boys then he probably won't do it. Which usually means fanservice while the guys do all the cool stuff.


I really hope you aren't referring to people like me when you say western complainers. I would never want Horikoshi or any other author to change something in their series because of some complaint. I only said what I did because when it comes to female characters Horikoshi does a bad job. The female characters don't need to be soloing opponents they just need to be at least somewhat useful. Plenty of battle shonen handle their female characters better and some of them are even in the same magazine. I don't think a series needs to have useful female characters to be good but it sure isn't a plus when they fail to be.
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Errinundra
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Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 6525
Location: Melbourne, Oz
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:22 am Reply with quote
Cleaned up the messy embedded quotes.
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Krunky



Joined: 08 Jul 2019
Posts: 59
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:06 am Reply with quote
Kisuke525 wrote:

Maybe I didn't make myself completely clear, because I feel like you don't really get what I mean. I'm not saying the female characters have never done anything important in the entire series. What I'm saying is that they don't compare to the guys at all when it comes to important things done. Yes 90% of class 1-A is underutilized that's another problem with Horikoshi, he can't seem to balance his use of characters at all. But look at the characters of that 10% percent that actually get to do stuff. It's pretty much just the same 3 characters all of which are guys. And others that get to share the glory are usually guys to like Kirishima or Iida.

spoiler[Bakugou and Todoroki has not done anything significant in the manga for 3 years now. During that span he's been developing the extended cast and the story. Funny how you consider Joint Training insignificant (in a manga about teens training to be heroes of all things ) when it had the biggest revelation in the story.
]


Quote:
Finding the nomu factory for instance is important but it hardly takes any time at all, it barely qualifies imo.

Not only was the method to actually getting the tracker on the Nomu extremely risky and gave the heroes the leverage they needed to save Bakugou something in which they never would have been able to do if Momo never made the tracker. It was not easy at all.

Quote:
And come on man the part you covered with a spoiler is exactly the type of thing I mean when I say poorly done. I would not use it as an example of the female characters being used well especially because of how they were handled in that whole arc in general. And as I said I don't consider training to be anywhere near as important as fighting villains because it's really not.

I don't understand this double standard. You equate a character's worth in the story to fighting villains which is exactly what they did and not only that they were able to save all the male heroes who was stuck underground spoiler[and Deku and Nighteye who were about to die in that moment] the only thing you can criticize is the lack of focus their battle received in comparison but it doesn't mean their efforts weren't crucial to everyone making it out alive. I always tell people if you feel that a female character's worth is based on the number of battles they received then Fairy Tail is the most feminist battle shounen ever Rolling Eyes

Quote:
The Joint training arc is also still mostly focused on the guys anyway. I will give you Toga though she's been handled the best of the female characters so far. And yeah it's not as bad as Naruto but that isn't saying much.

Yes the arc in which 4 of the 5 battles had females playing in crucial role in the victory of the opposing teams was mainly focused on the guys who either lost badly spoiler[Todoroki, Kirishima, Koda, All of 1-B during Match 4, Monoma] or weren't given much focus at all spoiler[Bakugou]

I always wonder why MHA gets the lion's share of this criticism compared to other shounen when it doesn't even handle it worse than anyone else? If you want me to get real the only relevant female character in FMA was Izumi everyone else just played support for the males (hell none of them actually fought the homunculous by themselves) and Winry was very much the generic love interest and not much else yet it gets helmed as the best examples of handling female characters in a shounen manga and then on the opposite spectrum is the previous example FT which actually did have a split ratio of male and female battles with most of them being relevant to the story yet people trash it despite that almost if it doesn't change the fact that the female characters are always exploited and are poorly written on top of that. The focus ratio of MHA isn't divided by gender its mostly depended on what Hori feels is the next character he wants to expand on spoiler[The majority of the school festival arc was focused on Jirou while Todoroki and Bakugou were sidelined, Toga had more focus in the MVA arc than Spinner, Dabi and Mr. Compress.] So again what's the big deal?
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Lactobacillus yogurti



Joined: 17 Aug 2011
Posts: 845
Location: Latin America
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:48 am Reply with quote
Remember, it's Shonen Jump, not Equality Jump.
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ThatMoonGuy



Joined: 13 Oct 2017
Posts: 364
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:03 am Reply with quote
Oggers wrote:

Momo definitely isn't stupid. She may be naive when it comes to how middle and lower class people live since she's so rich, but she's the top student in her class and she can use her Quirk effectively. Her Quirk isn't as broken as all that, because she needs to know the exact molecular makeup of whatever she's making (hence why she always needs to carry around that encyclopedia with her), her power is limited by her food intake, and she needs time to make and use whatever she creates. Her Quirk is very versatile, but it does come with drawbacks and she's not a very physical fighter, either.


Momo is pretty much the biggest jobber in the whole manga. Everybody calls her brilliant and a genius but she genuinely never won a single fight. Her most relevant victory was during the paired fight against Eraserhead and that was him basically letting them win. Outside of that, she just keeps losing all the time and people act like she's some super impressive character.

A lot of that comes from the fact that Horikoshi is outright terrible at being creative with powers. 90% of the time abilities are used only to give strong punches or enhance baseline combat abilities. I can't remember one single fight where I looked at how powers were used and thought 'hey, that's really clever!'. In that sense, MHA is the complete opposite of something like World Trigger. In World Trigger everybody has about the same type of combat resources but they are so damn creative with them while in Boku no Hero Academia the powers are extremely varied but are used in completely boring ways.
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Krunky



Joined: 08 Jul 2019
Posts: 59
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:27 am Reply with quote
ThatMoonGuy wrote:

Momo is pretty much the biggest jobber in the whole manga. Everybody calls her brilliant and a genius but she genuinely never won a single fight. Her most relevant victory was during the paired fight against Eraserhead and that was him basically letting them win. Outside of that, she just keeps losing all the time and people act like she's some super impressive character.

You lose two non-stakes unimportant battles which are mainly used for character development yet you succeed in everything else that matters including saving everyone's lives at one point yet you still gets labeled as a jobber because nobody knows what the word means anymore. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
A lot of that comes from the fact that Horikoshi is outright terrible at being creative with powers. 90% of the time abilities are used only to give strong punches or enhance baseline combat abilities.

Well thus isn't true at all. Two of the best fights are coming up this season and they don't involvr anything youre spouting (hell what you're saying doesn't even fit the current episode).

Quote:
In World Trigger everybody has about the same type of combat resources but they are so damn creative with them while in Boku no Hero Academia the powers are extremely varied but are used in completely boring ways.

Yeah its almost like the manga takes place in a school to better learn how to use their abilities or something. Rolling Eyes
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Krunky



Joined: 08 Jul 2019
Posts: 59
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:38 am Reply with quote
Scion Drake wrote:

You say that about Sakura yet her most iconic & beloved moment in the entire franchise is engaging the Akatsuki Sasori alongside Chiyo in a quite epic brawl as she punches the shit out of all his puppets with her bare hands while fighting off a deadly poison.

Which happened at the very beginning of Part 2 and she dud absolutely nothing for a duration period after other than constantly needing to be saved and almost getting killed due to her own stupidity. The insult to her when Sasuke equated Kakashi without his sharingan as weakerthan her. So suffice to say her healing was the only thing of worth she learned during the timeskip.
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Krunky



Joined: 08 Jul 2019
Posts: 59
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:19 am Reply with quote
Kisuke525 wrote:

I really hope you aren't referring to people like me when you say western complainers. I would never want Horikoshi or any other author to change something in their series because of some complaint. I only said what I did because when it comes to female characters Horikoshi does a bad job. The female characters don't need to be soloing opponents they just need to be at least somewhat useful. Plenty of battle shonen handle their female characters better and some of them are even in the same magazine. I don't think a series needs to have useful female characters to be good but it sure isn't a plus when they fail to be.


Lets just nip this in the bud shall we?

Because I know you're going to use it as the first example Black Clover does not do an exceptional or good job at this regardless of how much its fanbase want to pretrnd that Noelle is the best heroine of this generation and then hyping up another character who is literally the equivalent of what commentators who complain about female involvement in shounen actually want in a female character....a character who only exists to show how strong she is and nothing. Also doesn't help that among the female cast are a guild of man gating amazonians who only continue the lesbian stereotype but as it turns out they're actually man crazy as well with their leader having a crush on what is the caricature on toxic masculinity....oh the irony! Laughing

I don't even think i should bother bringing up One Piece since its fanbase has admitted that Oda degraded Nami and Robin over the years to being just eye candy who don't even get fights anymore and outside that you have a womanchild and slew of other underused characters.

One of the biggest criticisms towards Kimetsu is that Nezuko is a non-character to which the series promptly ignores in favor of its other male leads until Tanijuro needs to get out of a situation. The weakest pillar is a female specifically because she's not strong enough to wield a sword but don't worry that gets offsetted by the other female pillar spoiler[who is actuall quite strong to bad she's a joke character who's motivation is more or less just wanting to get married]

Now apparently MHA handles its female cast worst than all if these. The only shounen that actual tackled the discrimination of gender without turning the opposing argument into a literal strawman (*cough*Black Clover*cough*), where how strong you are has nothing to do with gender (*cough*Kimetsu*cough*) or where female characters don't have to sit out every conflict (*cough*One Piece*cough*)....so its worse because they're not given enough screentime....which can pretty much be applied to the above examples as well.


Last edited by Krunky on Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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DavetheUsher



Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 505
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:38 am Reply with quote
Scion Drake wrote:
You say that about Sakura yet her most iconic & beloved moment in the entire franchise is engaging the Akatsuki Sasori alongside Chiyo in a quite epic brawl as she punches the shit out of all his puppets with her bare hands while fighting off a deadly poison.

Suffice to say, that whole spiel that “she’s a healer, she shouldn’t be in direct combat” is complete & total horseshit.


To be fair Chiyo was doing pretty much all of the work that fight besides Sakura taking out a few of the puppets. Also a big part of that fight for Sakura was she knew how to counteract Sasori's poison with an antidote she made earlier when Kankuro was poisoned i.e. medical ninjutsu.

Oggers wrote:
Momo definitely isn't stupid. She may be naive when it comes to how middle and lower class people live since she's so rich, but she's the top student in her class and she can use her Quirk effectively. Her Quirk isn't as broken as all that, because she needs to know the exact molecular makeup of whatever she's making (hence why she always needs to carry around that encyclopedia with her), her power is limited by her food intake, and she needs time to make and use whatever she creates. Her Quirk is very versatile, but it does come with drawbacks and she's not a very physical fighter, either.


I guess "jobbing" like ThatMoonGuy said is more accurate. She mostly uses her power for supportive things rather than just making a gun and shooting someone (even without a Quirk for shooting like Snipe a gun is pretty effective lol) or just a long giant spike from her arm to stab people with. The most she's done so far is make a cannon. It's kinda the problem when you make a character with a power like 'can create anything', you have to have good reasons to explain why they don't do the obvious, overpowered things.

Kisuke525 wrote:
I really hope you aren't referring to people like me when you say western complainers. I would never want Horikoshi or any other author to change something in their series because of some complaint. I only said what I did because when it comes to female characters Horikoshi does a bad job. The female characters don't need to be soloing opponents they just need to be at least somewhat useful. Plenty of battle shonen handle their female characters better and some of them are even in the same magazine. I don't think a series needs to have useful female characters to be good but it sure isn't a plus when they fail to be.


Nah, not you. Sorry if you thought it was directed towards you. Mainly the people who harass Hoshikoshi on Twitter about this stuff making demands from him all the time. Some shounen might do it (although honestly none of the most popular ones do it outside a few token fights maybe) I'm just saying given the target audience and genre it's very unlikely to be a priority for writers.)

Krunky wrote:
I don't even think i should bother bringing up One Piece since its fanbase has admitted that Oda degraded Nami and Robin over the years to being just eye candy who don't even get fights anymore and outside that you have a womanchild and slew of other underused characters.


To be fair literally everyone who isn't the Monster Trio is more or less sidelined. Brook, Usopp and Chopper are all on fodder duty just like Nami and Robin. Franky's probably at a very, very distant 4th in terms of relevant fights. Same thing happened in Dragonball and Naruto.

The main thing about series like these is writers go for what's popular. For MHA, that's Deku, Bakugo, and Todoroki. Everyone else is just there. Very rarely, if at all, do women in shounen series get that kind of popularity to be part of the top tier.. But an easy way to utilize female characters is fanservice, and merchandise like figures which people will buy.
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Prosandon



Joined: 09 Dec 2019
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:29 pm Reply with quote
Krunky wrote:

I don't even think i should bother bringing up One Piece since its fanbase has admitted that Oda degraded Nami and Robin over the years to being just eye candy who don't even get fights anymore and outside that you have a womanchild and slew of other underused characters.


Are you gonna ignore Dadan, Dr. Kureha, Queen Otohime and other countless female characters from each arc who contributed to the story or they don't fit your narrative since apparently only fights count as characters doing something?

DavetheUsher wrote:

To be fair literally everyone who isn't the Monster Trio is more or less sidelined. Brook, Usopp and Chopper are all on fodder duty just like Nami and Robin. Franky's probably at a very, very distant 4th in terms of relevant fights. Same thing happened in Dragonball and Naruto.


Now I'm convinced both of you haven't read/watched the WCI arc. The general consensus is that both Nami and Brook were the MVPs of that arc.
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XaelOstigian



Joined: 25 Oct 2019
Posts: 70
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:52 pm Reply with quote
Noticing an utter lack of love for Mina Ashido. Pinky may be freaky looking, but she has a lot of charm and an enthusiastic personality. Not to mention her acid quirk has a lot of use if she gets creative enough. Kinda sucks she's been sidelined even by female cast standards...
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Gray Lensman



Joined: 17 Mar 2019
Posts: 143
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:28 pm Reply with quote
Scion Drake wrote:


You say that about Sakura yet her most iconic & beloved moment in the entire franchise is engaging the Akatsuki Sasori alongside Chiyo in a quite epic brawl as she punches the shit out of all his puppets with her bare hands while fighting off a deadly poison.

Suffice to say, that whole spiel that “she’s a healer, she shouldn’t be in direct combat” is complete & total horseshit.


My issue isn't the general usefulness/uselessness in combat, but how she goes from something feared to something laughable depending on who she is trying to hit, but I admit the my least favorite anime trope is the excessively violent tsundere, and the fact that for a while seemingly every writer insisted they were also best girl made me despise such characters.

Back to the list, I wish Mei Hatsume or Mina Ashido had made it. One thing MHA does very well with all of its characters is make them visually interesting, and give them all unique personalities. Just reading the lines from some characters seems enough to figure out who some of them are even without hearing the voice or seeing an image, which is much better than a lot of other shows I have watched.
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