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INTEREST: Residents Near Kyoto Animation's 1st Studio Building Raise Concerns about Proposal for Mem


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pwnagemaster



Joined: 09 Dec 2017
Posts: 86
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:30 pm Reply with quote
So is it a rule somewhere that all neighborhood associations are awful? It seems like whenever you hear about one, they're being stuck-up about something or other. Even internationally, it would seem.
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Banjo



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 744
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:48 pm Reply with quote
Hoppy800 wrote:
There is not going to be a large pilgrimage if any to this site, good lord, you'll find a few Otaku and a tourist every now and then taking a look, much like the 9/11 Memorial on any day that's not 9/11 and that's it.


true, people will forget the place in a year or 2 and barely anybody will come after. except friends and families of those victims.
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Gemnist



Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 1587
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:51 pm Reply with quote
A couple of years ago, I went on a tour in Liverpool that takes you to a bunch of locales that were important to the Beatles. One of the spots was George Harrison’s birthplace and childhood home, and I was surprised to learn that the building actually has tenants currently, especially when John Lennon’s and Paul McCartney’s have been turned .

I’d imagine that they in particular knew the risks of tourists coming to their home, but these people probably didn’t since no one could have predicted this tragedy. That said, like others have said, you also can’t erase the tragedy, and I wouldn’t be surprised if people came to the place on anime pilgrimage even before the fire.

All in all, it’s just a massive mixed bag.
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DatRandomDude



Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 212
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:02 am Reply with quote
I mean, people are still going to come visit the site whatever happens here so they might as well just let them do it.
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LadyKuzunoha



Joined: 18 May 2011
Posts: 57
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:58 am Reply with quote
AkumaChef wrote:
I've heard about some of the problems with otakutourism in the past, but I feel that the fact that this is a memorial makes it a bit different. Have there been any cases of Otakutourists making a nuisence of themselves at, say, a temple, shrine, graveyard, or similar sort of place which traditionally gets a lot of respect?


It's been a few years, but one case I recall of this was when a Free! fan scribbled on part of the Arasuna Shrine in Tottori Prefecture. Pretty minor compared to what the folks arguing not to do this are probably more worried about (given the history the location now has and the spate of miscreants throwing threats of copycat crimes around, they may fear another violent act occurring), but still an example of people being disrespectful in such a place.
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Calsolum



Joined: 11 May 2010
Posts: 771
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:43 am Reply with quote
Well that seems like a really... sad reason for not wanting a memorial site.

While I respect the wishes of the neighborhood association since they actually live there and would be the ones personally affected by any 'traffic' it feels like a very insensitive response.

If the staff at Kyoto and the families of the deceased said this I'd be sad but it would feel more appropriate if it was the voices of those directly affected by this tragedy than by the voices of those affected by the (potential)aftershock of this tragedy.

I hope they reconsider or come to a compromise but even if they don't then so be it, it's their home. Regardless, it won't stop people who earnestly wish to visit and pay respects to the people who lost their lives there, unless they can somehow erase that part of history.
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Sherris



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 245
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:52 am Reply with quote
Why are they such not-so-nice-people? They fear that this would cause depreciation of their own houses? Greedy and heartless AF.

edit: ANN now censors 'a$$holes' into 'not-so-nice-people'. WT*?
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Crispy45



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 363
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:16 am Reply with quote
Lynx Raven Raide wrote:

And no, Ozzy4k, it's not selfish. It is selfish of us for expecting something to be put there without taking into consideration those who will have to put up with it. It's easy for us to say, because we are just visitors, not having to live there.


It's probably safe to assume everyone posting in this topic doesn't live in this neighborhood, so them not being affected by anything that happens makes it easy for them to support it out of their fondness of KyoAni.. If it was next door to their own home, they might have a different opinion on the subject. Considering officially recognizing an area as a memorial could result in annual fan gatherings, events, even concerts or just people using a loud microphone to tell people what KyoAni meant to them and how this tragedy affected them, it would no doubt be disruptive. All of those are common things we see at candlelit vigils for tragedies, from people killed in car crashes to large mass shootings. You can look up plenty of examples of them on YouTube. It would probably be best for people to ask themselves if they would be okay with all those happening right outside their doorstep periodically without warning. Given KyoAni's popularity, those events would easily draw thousands of people to the neighborhood.
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gridsleep
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Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 361
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:13 am Reply with quote
Is the city government going to be investigated for their completely unacceptable building codes? The Kyoto Animation building was nothing other than an incinerator just waiting to be lit. No fire prevention or blocking, no escape routes, no sprinkler system, paper stored haphazardly everywhere. All those people could have survived even after an attack by a maniac. It's the city's fault as much as it is the felon's. Memorials are nice if heartfelt, but this feels more like a rush to destroy the evidence of a crime and erase that memory.

Last edited by gridsleep on Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 550
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:51 am Reply with quote
Crispy45 wrote:

It's probably safe to assume everyone posting in this topic doesn't live in this neighborhood, so them not being affected by anything that happens makes it easy for them to support it out of their fondness of KyoAni.. If it was next door to their own home, they might have a different opinion on the subject.


I certainly don't live near KyoAni. But my opinion on the subject is based on a matter of principle. First off, there's the obvious: This is a memorial to those who were killed in a heinous act of murder. Memorial trumps personal preference. I'm not a huge KyoAni fan--I haven't even seen most of their works. In fact, I think Haruhi is the only one I have seen, and it didn't interest me enough to buy it. I don't hold this opinion because I put KyoAni on a pedestal, rather it's simply the right thing to do for any sort of mass murder like this. Even if the deceased had nothing to do with anime I would still feel this way. A memorial to the dead is a memorial to the dead. Whether or not I personally cared for those people or not is immaterial; it still deserves respect. Friend or enemy, a grave is a grave and a memorial is a memorial.

And second, for me anyway, the real crux of the matter distills to private property rights. KyoAni owns the land (presumably), therefore they are free to do whatever they want with it, within the law of course. That's really all there is to it. Nobody else has a right to complain unless there is some kind of a law being broken.

Now then, as for my personal experience: I strongly value my peace and quiet as well as my privacy. I'm exactly the sort of person who would be unhappy with a bunch of strangers wandering around my neighborhood. I moved a few years ago. I picked a semi-rural area that's very quiet and has few neighbors. I'm surrounded by undeveloped land and ranches. About a year after I moved a massive industrial plant was built nearby. They fabricate steel pipe for water mains, drainage, etc. Often times I can hear incredibly loud banging noises--imagine a man beating a huge iron plate with a sledgehammer--24 hours a day, including on some holidays. All day every day there is the constant noise of big semi trucks, heavy equipment moving around, etc. Needless to say I wasn't happy about that. But you know what? I have no right to complain: it's their land, they can do what they want with it, that's just what happens sometimes. What they do might drive me nuts, but I would still defend their right to do it, because the same principle applies right back to me.
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CastMember1991



Joined: 06 Feb 2012
Posts: 590
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:53 am Reply with quote
In other news, one of my local radio stations reported that if the maniac who set fire to KyoAni is convicted (highly likely, too), he faces life in prison.

I'm confident justice will be done.
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RevyHenriettaRider



Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 64
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:58 pm Reply with quote
Hello! Cool

I think a possible solution to this problem would be for them to do two things. I think in the area that the building was in they should put in a park with a small marker honoring the dead. People could go to the park for different reasons other than just to visit where the building was. Then they should put up a museum in an urban area that they have to honor the victims and display the art of KyoAni. If they did that then a lot of people could come and they would not bother the the people living in the area that the building was in.
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Lynx Raven Raide



Joined: 01 Nov 2017
Posts: 321
Location: Central Coast, AU
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:23 pm Reply with quote
AkumaChef wrote:
Crispy45 wrote:

It's probably safe to assume everyone posting in this topic doesn't live in this neighborhood, so them not being affected by anything that happens makes it easy for them to support it out of their fondness of KyoAni.. If it was next door to their own home, they might have a different opinion on the subject.


I certainly don't live near KyoAni. But my opinion on the subject is based on a matter of principle. First off, there's the obvious: This is a memorial to those who were killed in a heinous act of murder. Memorial trumps personal preference. I'm not a huge KyoAni fan--I haven't even seen most of their works. In fact, I think Haruhi is the only one I have seen, and it didn't interest me enough to buy it. I don't hold this opinion because I put KyoAni on a pedestal, rather it's simply the right thing to do for any sort of mass murder like this. Even if the deceased had nothing to do with anime I would still feel this way. A memorial to the dead is a memorial to the dead. Whether or not I personally cared for those people or not is immaterial; it still deserves respect. Friend or enemy, a grave is a grave and a memorial is a memorial.

And second, for me anyway, the real crux of the matter distills to private property rights. KyoAni owns the land (presumably), therefore they are free to do whatever they want with it, within the law of course. That's really all there is to it. Nobody else has a right to complain unless there is some kind of a law being broken.

Now then, as for my personal experience: I strongly value my peace and quiet as well as my privacy. I'm exactly the sort of person who would be unhappy with a bunch of strangers wandering around my neighborhood. I moved a few years ago. I picked a semi-rural area that's very quiet and has few neighbors. I'm surrounded by undeveloped land and ranches. About a year after I moved a massive industrial plant was built nearby. They fabricate steel pipe for water mains, drainage, etc. Often times I can hear incredibly loud banging noises--imagine a man beating a huge iron plate with a sledgehammer--24 hours a day, including on some holidays. All day every day there is the constant noise of big semi trucks, heavy equipment moving around, etc. Needless to say I wasn't happy about that. But you know what? I have no right to complain: it's their land, they can do what they want with it, that's just what happens sometimes. What they do might drive me nuts, but I would still defend their right to do it, because the same principle applies right back to me.

I think the problem here is cultural differences.

First of all, comparing this to any normal mass murder is ludicrous. Just seeing the reaction and donations is enough to show that. I mean, most of the others are usually localised, or only directly impact those close to those involved. Even something like the 9/11 memorial is within the psyche for only while. On the other hand otaku culture is vastly different. A school building was going to be torn down if it wasn't for the combination of otaku and local businesses benefiting from them stepping in, and yes, I am talking about the school from K-On. And that's just from the Japanese side, KyoAni has a global reputation. It may not be a mass flocking, or maybe at the beginning it will, but it will definitely be a constant flow.

The other difference is Japanese culture of being respectful to each other. This was an animation studio in a residential area. If it was in a commercial area, things might be different, but KyoAni would listen to those within the neighbourhood before proceeding, realising how this would impact them. Hell, if this wasn't taken into consideration there wouldn't be people directing visitors away from the site at present, because they know the disruption to the neighbourhood.
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AkaRed



Joined: 13 Jan 2016
Posts: 368
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:15 pm Reply with quote
Aside from the problem of possibilities of Otakutourist ? Does the refusal of the people surounding the area of KyoAni building stem towards Japanese people culture to not speak about what happened in the past ?

I mean japanese people never did their works on what happened in WW2 for example. Question
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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 550
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:20 pm Reply with quote
Lynx Raven Raide wrote:

I think the problem here is cultural differences.

There's no doubt about that. I obviously can't give a Japanese person's perspective on it. That said, if there are any Japanese reading this I would love to hear your thoughts on the subject.

Quote:
First of all, comparing this to any normal mass murder is ludicrous. Just seeing the reaction and donations is enough to show that.

There are plenty of memorials around the world that represent far greater "reactions to mass murder" and they are peaceful. But beyond that, I don't think that scale is even relevant. In my opinion a memorial or a grave deserves respect even if is that of my worst enemy.

Quote:
I mean, most of the others are usually localised, or only directly impact those close to those involved. Even something like the 9/11 memorial is within the psyche for only while
.
Yes, I agree.

Quote:
On the other hand otaku culture is vastly different. A school building was going to be torn down if it wasn't for the combination of otaku and local businesses benefiting from them stepping in, and yes, I am talking about the school from K-On.

I disagree with that. The reason is that we aren't talking about something mundane like a school, a shop, or a landmark. We're talking about a memorial specifically. It's special. I expect that people will behave themselves differently when visiting a memorial as opposed to a random location from their favorite show.

Quote:
And that's just from the Japanese side, KyoAni has a global reputation. It may not be a mass flocking, or maybe at the beginning it will, but it will definitely be a constant flow.

That will happen regardless of what happens to the site. They could raze it and pave it over to make a parking lot and that will still happen.

Quote:
The other difference is Japanese culture of being respectful to each other.

Yes. That's specifically why I think this would work. It is ingrained in essentially every culture worldwide to treat memorials and sites of death with respect. Respectful mourners do not a disruption make.

Quote:

This was an animation studio in a residential area. If it was in a commercial area, things might be different, but KyoAni would listen to those within the neighbourhood before proceeding, realising how this would impact them.

I am 100% sure that KyoAni will listen to those around them and weigh their concerns heavily. But I am also shocked that the neighborhood association had the gall to even ask them to do that. In my opinion the demands made by the neighborhood group are very disrespectful. KyoAni has the moral high ground here in my opinion. I actually feel bad for them that the neighborhood association is putting them in this position.
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