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This Week in Anime - Carole & Tuesday Tries to Fight the Power


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Fred Lougee



Joined: 01 Oct 2018
Posts: 117
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:16 pm Reply with quote
Glad you two enjoyed it. I thought it glad-handed the ending and limped across the finish line. The big "shock" reveal re: Angela was telegraphed four episodes earlier.

Still, despite the faults, Watanabe-sensei gave us one of the best animes of the year.
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Yuvelir



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 462
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:11 pm Reply with quote
Maybe I'm wrong since it has been months, but as far as addressing the bigger problems goes, wasn't it handled in two lanes? The political part was "solved" by politicians, journalists and Super Hacker Wiki Leaks. While the musical side was instead aimed at the populance's feelings.
The magical song wasn't supposed to solve the current political crisis but to sway the hearts of the people. This kind of gestures do not solve any problems on their own, but in junction they're more important to improving the outlook of society than politicians on their own.
If many people are being "bad" in mind and act, then the first thing you need to rectify it is many people expressing a desire for the opposite. And getting together a few dozens of guys that people listen to isn't a bad start for that.
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angelmcazares
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Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:19 pm Reply with quote
I ended up liking the whole show quite a bit, but in the second half the series lost some of the greatness from the first half. I loved the first third of the show, but the second half focused too much on hate politics.
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 1199
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:12 pm Reply with quote
I enjoyed the show, but it's not great.

For one the music didn't live up to season 1 imo, and the whole thing just kinda mary-sued itself towards a conclusion as far as both story and compositions go. Lazy Montages just sort of gave the idea of a struggle. But everything about this was so lazy and convenient, including the background politics and music biz and AI themes.

And the whole immigration issue can't just be boiled down to bleep bloop robotic prejudices that fail to take into account the complexities of war, banking, resource and infrastructure limitations, crime, cultural incompatibility, conflicting religious and ethical beliefs, long standing historic feuds, security, economic viability, language barriers, conspiracy, excess labour vs wages, human trafficing for profit and government grants, demographic replacement, political scoring etc. So the whole message of the show just boils down to one false flag terrorism event being exposed easily enough and everything is okay now. Yeah if only life worked out so well when problems with 9/11 or the Douma 'chemical attack' false report came to light...

I liked the whole end theme of 'motherhood', but everything leading there was just surface level tosh. But I guess the two leads are too adorable, and the cast and setting different enough that the show scrapes by into being entertaining enough. But something much better could've come from this, but shallow writing and lazy conveniences didn't get there or they just chickened out because they wanted the show to be light popcorn fun.

Show should've been about just Carole and Tuesday just being indie underdogs, focused on the difficulties of music creation, everyday life in the neighbourhood with more regular folk and stories that give inspiration for songs, then climaxed with Carole in danger of deportation and Yuesday then having to stand up to her mother and confront her herself after growing from her time together with Carole and away from her sheltered life, and the 'miracle' being some music concert at a refugee camp that moves public opinion, finally casts our musical duo in the spotlight in a viral way, gets the government to hold off on any major rash plans in favor of dialogue with Earth that sees Carole released and the potential of a major record deal and corporate sponsorship for her and others for legit citizenship.
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Grimvice



Joined: 10 Aug 2017
Posts: 82
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:15 pm Reply with quote
jdnation wrote:
I enjoyed the show, but it's not great.

For one the music didn't live up to season 1 imo, and the whole thing just kinda mary-sued itself towards a conclusion as far as both story and compositions go. Lazy Montages just sort of gave the idea of a struggle. But everything about this was so lazy and convenient, including the background politics and music biz and AI themes.

And the whole immigration issue can't just be boiled down to bleep bloop robotic prejudices that fail to take into account the complexities of war, banking, resource and infrastructure limitations, crime, cultural incompatibility, conflicting religious and ethical beliefs, long standing historic feuds, security, economic viability, language barriers, conspiracy, excess labour vs wages, human trafficing for profit and government grants, demographic replacement, political scoring etc. So the whole message of the show just boils down to one false flag terrorism event being exposed easily enough and everything is okay now. Yeah if only life worked out so well when problems with 9/11 or the Douma 'chemical attack' false report came to light...

I liked the whole end theme of 'motherhood', but everything leading there was just surface level tosh. But I guess the two leads are too adorable, and the cast and setting different enough that the show scrapes by into being entertaining enough. But something much better could've come from this, but shallow writing and lazy conveniences didn't get there or they just chickened out because they wanted the show to be light popcorn fun.

Show should've been about just Carole and Tuesday just being indie underdogs, focused on the difficulties of music creation, everyday life in the neighbourhood with more regular folk and stories that give inspiration for songs, then climaxed with Carole in danger of deportation and Yuesday then having to stand up to her mother and confront her herself after growing from her time together with Carole and away from her sheltered life, and the 'miracle' being some music concert at a refugee camp that moves public opinion, finally casts our musical duo in the spotlight in a viral way, gets the government to hold off on any major rash plans in favor of dialogue with Earth that sees Carole released and the potential of a major record deal and corporate sponsorship for her and others for legit citizenship.


THANK YOU!!

I did feel really annoyed that the entire show boiled down to a bunch of political stuff instead being about the exploration of music and one's relationship to it.
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mgosdin



Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 1291
Location: Kissimmee, Florida, USA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:44 pm Reply with quote
Politics has become so poisonous that once it seeps into any project it becomes the only thing left fairly quickly.

Mark Gosdin
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kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 785
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:11 pm Reply with quote
mgosdin wrote:
Politics has become so poisonous that once it seeps into any project it becomes the only thing left fairly quickly.


Interestingly, though, only one end of the political spectrum says things like this.

Don't get me wrong, it certainly bugs me when something is touting politics I don't agree with. And it does often feel like that's the whole reason for its existence; that's the nature of being offended. But I have never complained about the presence of politics in media in general, because that would be dishonest; no one on Earth complains when a story is politically agreeable to them.

However... to more conservative people, often what's most agreeable just doesn't really challenge anything, making it seem that their favorite form of politics is no politics at all. Supporting the status quo is as much of a statement as anything else, though; especially if you complain about any alternative statements made elsewhere.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 2567
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:15 pm Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:
mgosdin wrote:
Politics has become so poisonous that once it seeps into any project it becomes the only thing left fairly quickly.


Interestingly, though, only one end of the political spectrum says things like this.

Don't get me wrong, it certainly bugs me when something is touting politics I don't agree with. And it does often feel like that's the whole reason for its existence; that's the nature of being offended. But I have never complained about the presence of politics in media in general, because that would be dishonest; no one on Earth complains when a story is politically agreeable to them.

However... to more conservative people, often what's most agreeable just doesn't really challenge anything, making it seem that their favorite form of politics is no politics at all. Supporting the status quo is as much of a statement as anything else, though; especially if you complain about any alternative statements made elsewhere.


Everyone is like that, not just conservative leaning people. The show could have simply not touched on immigration, that wouldn't have been supporting the status quo, that would have just been not touching the subject.

And personally I strongly dislike when show support policy I agree with but use faulty logic or convenient reasoning to do so. I start to seriously question if my own reason for supporting those policy is just as shallow/ill thought of. But it's almost always crappy writing. I'm sure I'd broadly agree with... whatever terror in resonance was trying to say... but it was so badly written that the only thigh stopping me from quitting was Yoko Kanno soundtrack.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 4008
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:02 pm Reply with quote
Grimvice wrote:


THANK YOU!!

I did feel really annoyed that the entire show boiled down to a bunch of political stuff instead being about the exploration of music and one's relationship to it.


To be fair the music industry has it's own form of politics.
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Grimvice



Joined: 10 Aug 2017
Posts: 82
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:51 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Grimvice wrote:


THANK YOU!!

I did feel really annoyed that the entire show boiled down to a bunch of political stuff instead being about the exploration of music and one's relationship to it.


To be fair the music industry has it's own form of politics.


EXACTLY.

For a show about music, that would have been waaaaay more interesting and thematically-sound to explore than actual politics. It wold have been fine to allude to politics and such as inspiration for one's music and personal struggles, but why should that be the central conflict of a show about music?
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mgosdin



Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 1291
Location: Kissimmee, Florida, USA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:02 am Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:
Interestingly, though, only one end of the political spectrum says things like this.


And you think I'm at which end of the political spectrum? For the record I am registered as NPA here in Florida, No Party Affiliation, which is to say Independent. I'll happily take on any extreme when it comes down to it.

The producers of Carole & Tuesday, which I was looking forward to because of the Music, do have every right to use the series to say whatever they want about whatever issues they want.

And, those that just wanted to be entertained, by the Music, have every right to complain when they get something they weren't looking for.

Simple and civil.

Mark Gosdin
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doctordoom85



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 2001
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:47 am Reply with quote
I think the problem is your original post came off as suggesting that politics just shouldn't be in anime period which would be ridiculous. I mean, if that were the case, somebody better grab a time travel machine and hop back to 1979 and tell Tomino to not kickstart the Gundam franchise as that more often than not has political statements in it.

I realized that wasn't what you meant now (although again the first post could have been worded better), but many others these days do seem so over-sensitive to politics of any kind showing up in any kind of fiction regardless of how it's incorporated into the story that it's gotten tiring hearing these whiners never shut up about it. Take a film like Knives Out, that touches upon the immigration debate but in a fitting way as it shows just yet another way how divided this family is and it serves as a motivation for one of the family to turn against the main character when he discovers something about her. It's a logical inclusion and yet there were still babies crying, "ZOMG, politics, why can't we just have a story be a story?!"
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#HayamiLover



Joined: 22 Jul 2018
Posts: 627
Location: Eastern Europe
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:35 am Reply with quote
doctordoom85 wrote:
I think the problem is your original post came off as suggesting that politics just shouldn't be in anime period which would be ridiculous. I mean, if that were the case, somebody better grab a time travel machine and hop back to 1979 and tell Tomino to not kickstart the Gundam franchise as that more often than not has political statements in it.

I realized that wasn't what you meant now (although again the first post could have been worded better), but many others these days do seem so over-sensitive to politics of any kind showing up in any kind of fiction regardless of how it's incorporated into the story that it's gotten tiring hearing these whiners never shut up about it. Take a film like Knives Out, that touches upon the immigration debate but in a fitting way as it shows just yet another way how divided this family is and it serves as a motivation for one of the family to turn against the main character when he discovers something about her. It's a logical inclusion and yet there were still babies crying, "ZOMG, politics, why can't we just have a story be a story?!"


Politics and social commentary are slightly different things. When the author makes a social commentary, this is normal and I believe that anyone has the right to express their views if they do not violate the law.

Problems begin when the show itself literally turns into political propaganda, where the plot is less important than the political agenda. Gate, whose author openly said that he wanted to write one big "take that!" to pacifists and liberals, Mahouka with its absurd naive patriotism and the idea that pacifism is a betrayal ... on this occasion, you also say that this is completely normal?
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H. Guderian



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 1184
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:54 pm Reply with quote
I find it is not how topics are touched on, but how they are touched on.

Despite every character essentially wearing a different color paper bag, I love "Fang of the Sun: Dougram". You wind up seeing many people from many sides of several rebellions, civil wars, counter-civil wars, etc. And you can really at least come to terms that there are characters on all the sides with their thoughts and feelings. It handles some tough issues, well.

I get the sense in this story, and many have echoed this, it starts out strong doing one thing, and finishes less well doing another. Anime can and has tackled tough topics.

If you are gonna switch gears midstream, at least do it well. I remember when I first watched Air I though it was a yet another Harem of the Saucer-Eye era. After no real announcement suddenly the show is about a reluctant motherhood. Anime takes hard turns with baiting in people with one topic and then throwing a heavier issue in fairly frequently.

As for "Politics in X" I see it in the same vein as "X is Art". No one who says "This is Art" is merely pointing out that the art they are looking at is Art or not. It has the hidden values of good or bad. If I watch Evangelion and say "This isn't art!" (I'd never say that!) it is implied I think it is bad art. "This is Art" implies merit and quality.

Some of the top anime deal with IRL political or psychological issues. "Get your (lazy) Politics out of my (x)!" it is not saying they don't want the issue ever brought up, but the manner of bringing it up is so lazy it is an insult to the consumer.

As Meiam said: "[A] show support policy I agree with but use faulty logic or convenient reasoning to do so." No one likes being talked down to. Some people even get upset when their Allies are making their joint cause look bad. Carole and Tuesday either should have stuck to what made it good, or taken more care to switch gears.

Going back to Key anime, sometimes your midstream switch results in a Clannad or Air, and sometimes it results in Charlotte. I hated what happened to that show...
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Cutiebunny



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 1445
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:17 pm Reply with quote
from the article wrote:
A nice reminder of just how brazenly evil these institutions are to anybody with a functioning brain and heart.


No, they're not.

What's brazenly evil are the people who prey on those desperate enough to try to get in first world countries by illegal means. You can't tell me that the driver of the 39 Vietnamese immigrants found dead inside a truck in southeastern England in October 2019 was an outstanding individual who was concerned with the welfare of those entrusted to him. Nor can you tell me that the people who have taken advantage of the crisis on the US southern border by trying to smuggle children into the sex trade under the guise that they're related is a saintly action.

Who even writes this article? How many ICE, CBP, Border Patrol and state and local police officers do you personally know and speak with? Clearly that answer is 0. The media isn't showing you what is really going on; They find one angle on a story and run it until you believe that that's what happening at every facility in the country, all day every day. They're not showing you the agents who risk life and limb to rescue illegal immigrants stranded by their smugglers in the desert (happens all the time during the summer months). They're not highlighting the smugglers who are bringing in minors to work in sexual servitude and the agents who work in trying to dismantle such operations. And if you don't live in an area such as a border state that has been hard hit by illegal immigration, you're not aware of the drain on hospitals, social services, etc. caused in part by illegal immigration.

Obviously, I don't expect foreigners to understand the intricacies of what goes on politically because often their only exposure is equivalent to what you'd see on the national nightly news programs. But I would like to hope that those reviewing the show could keep their personal opinions to themselves, particularly when they've never spoken to anyone in those particular fields to understand just what is going on.
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