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This Week in Anime - Why Ascendance of a Bookworm Refreshes the Isekai Genre


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HannoX



Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 194
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:11 pm Reply with quote
12Zwolf12 wrote:
Gina Szanboti wrote:
maximilianjenus wrote:
then it got to the child concubines

I don't know about the novel, but in the anime there are no "child" concubines. Even the panel they used in the article showed she said "after my coming of age ceremony." Coming of age means she's old enough to be deemed an adult, so that's all yet in her future. Not that the arrangement isn't still shitty, but all things considered, she could do worse, since she'll be able to have her own shop and pursue her primary interests, and be alive.

I think we're so conditioned in this culture to shield children from even knowing about the existence of sex, that people leap to the conclusion that since she's aware of concubines, she's going to be hauled off to the noble's sex dungeon tomorrow.

You realize that the coming of age ceremony is at the age of 7?


No, baptism is at age 7. Coming of age is later, 14 I think. And for most of our history girls normally married at 12-14. In the Middle Ages in Europe 12 was considered old enough. So this is keeping with the European Middle Ages vibe of the story.
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borobor



Joined: 05 Sep 2019
Posts: 18
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:35 pm Reply with quote
It's really awkward the way the kids have to be both so young and also so mature at the same time to meet the demands of the plot -- like it makes sense that Main is a little girl so she has the freedom to work outside the medieval system for a while, but then Lutz has to act like an adult all the time because he needs to be a reliable support to her, and then there's even some pseudo-romantic tension going on there which gets just a tiny bit weird when you remember that she was a college student and he's 6 years old...

Still, this was probably my favorite show of last season. Maybe it's better not to think about it too deeply.
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2862
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:08 pm Reply with quote
borobor wrote:
It's really awkward the way the kids have to be both so young and also so mature at the same time to meet the demands of the plot -- like it makes sense that Main is a little girl so she has the freedom to work outside the medieval system for a while, but then Lutz has to act like an adult all the time because he needs to be a reliable support to her, and then there's even some pseudo-romantic tension going on there which gets just a tiny bit weird when you remember that she was a college student and he's 6 years old...


That's how well grounded isekai works; bad grounded isekai has a 20+ years old otaku acting like a highschooler, while in medieval style worlds kids should be forced to mature much younger. A similar work has the kids infancy last until they are 5 years old (if theyare lucky) so then they have to start helping around the house/working, that's ignoring that in htier earlier years they were getting trained for their job (learn cooking, to take care of animals, etc...).

I guess isekai is a very different experience if you get started with novels/manga than if you get started with anime, hence why people get so freaked out with slavery.
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kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 1205
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:22 pm Reply with quote
HAL14 wrote:
One site i occasionally go to for reviews even claimed Darwin's game was an isekai. Of course, they also called Danmachi an isekai.


I mean, technically "isekai" just means "parallel universe." Darwin's Game wouldn't count because it's (I assume) a fantasy future of the real world, but Danmachi fits. The "bland male high-school student gets sent there to have adventures and/or harems" is something we tacked onto the basic definition.

To me, the odd thing about the extreme proliferation of (the stricter otaku variety of) isekai is that, fundamentally, many of them don't need to be isekai. Take, say, Reincarnated As A Slime, just because it's one of the few I've watched. What does the reincarnation part add to the story? It let them do that scene where he showed the girl who coincidentally also came from Japan her country's future, and allows for some gags involving a blue blob having the hots for humanoid women. And it's an excuse for why he has special superpowers, but not a particularly good excuse; they could have come up with something else. That's about it. That Wise Man's Grandchild one, going by the synopsis, is a story about an orphan baby taken in by an old wizard, who grows up and goes to magic school; except, oh yeah, he was sent here from our world, a detail which seems totally irrelevant. Most isekai are essentially fantasy stories with reincarnation thrown in to make the main character "more relatable," or just because an isekai is easier to get published in that market than regular fantasy. This is probably why some people don't see why Danmachi isn't an isekai; it easily could have been one, without changing the story in any meaningful way.

One thing that makes Bookworm interesting is that the reincarnation aspect is far from pointless. As the article discussed, Myne's whole gotta-have-books (initial) motivation comes from that, and the fact that she ended up in this world by hijacking the body of a child on the verge of death also causes a lot of drama and conflict. The story wouldn't work at all, or would be vastly different, if it wasn't an isekai. More than anything else, that's what makes it a "good isekai"--it's not squeezing an out-of-context plot into the genre to look trendy.
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lossthief
ANN Reviewer


Joined: 14 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:49 pm Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:

To me, the odd thing about the extreme proliferation of (the stricter otaku variety of) isekai is that, fundamentally, many of them don't need to be isekai. Take, say, Reincarnated As A Slime, just because it's one of the few I've watched. What does the reincarnation part add to the story? It let them do that scene where he showed the girl who coincidentally also came from Japan her country's future, and allows for some gags involving a blue blob having the hots for humanoid women. And it's an excuse for why he has special superpowers, but not a particularly good excuse; they could have come up with something else. That's about it. That Wise Man's Grandchild one, going by the synopsis, is a story about an orphan baby taken in by an old wizard, who grows up and goes to magic school; except, oh yeah, he was sent here from our world, a detail which seems totally irrelevant.


While Slime doesn't "need" to be an isekai, I'd say it does utilize that aspect fairly well, especially compared to others. Rimiru routinely uses people skills he developed as a working adult when interacting with others, and him being a fish-out-of-water is what sets off a lot of the story when he unwittingly causes big shifts in the world that he doesn't immediately understand. Neither aspect would be as natural if he was just a regular slime who happened to get special abilities. The series still glosses over a lot for the sake of not spending 10 episode with Rimuru learning the new world's languages and logistical stuff like that, but I'd say it does enough to justify being isekai.

In Wise Man's Grandchild, on the other hand, is just pointless. Shin ostensibly had an entire life as a working adult that he remembers completely after reincarnation, but still acts like an oblivious teenage moron who can't tell is ass from a hole in the ground. The only real aspects of the story that matter at all is him using Kanji to bypass the limitations of magic runes, and even that only comes up once.
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:37 pm Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:
To me, the odd thing about the extreme proliferation of isekai is that, fundamentally, many of them don't need to be isekai.


I think it is no secret that iseaki is the new fad (people wishing for it to end soon better live under a rock in the years to come), I have seen many new mangas jump into the bandwagon recently and some of them scream of "My manga idea was shot down repeteadly, so I decided to do an isekai and BANG I got published faster than you say Truck-kun!" and many "old" light novels have been getting the anime treatment just because of the isekai angle. Which only means that just because they anime studios pumping Isekai like mad, that does not mean we can pile them up on the "same old, same old" bin.
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pikabot



Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 168
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:16 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Which only means that just because they anime studios pumping Isekai like mad, that does not mean we can pile them up on the "same old, same old" bin.


I mean. We absolutely can.
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Engineering Nerd



Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 898
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:50 am Reply with quote
LegitPancake wrote:


@EngineeringNerd, regardless if your info is secondhand or not, I would like to ask you to refrain from posting spoilers, as there are a lot of light novel readers such as myself who really want to stay blind going in. The official translation is only in the middle of Part 2, so posting spoilers beyond that would be rather disrespectful.


Sorry didn't meant it that way, I already spoiler-tagged my quote. I didn't realized I was spoiling at that time since I thought I did not spell out the name, but it seems it was insensitive on my part, please disregard of what I said in the previous post.
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Kami-koto



Joined: 14 Feb 2019
Posts: 66
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:39 am Reply with quote
Hope we can get a non-rushed adaption of part 2.

maximilianjenus wrote:
When I started reading the "review" it sounded like apoor man's mushoku tensei, then it got to the child concubines and main dying and it sounded like a decent clone of it instead. The conflict about recognizing her new family soudns just like it too So I will eventualyl give this a try, most likely soon since the winter season is pretty weak.

They're nothing alike.
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error5051



Joined: 22 Apr 2014
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:02 am Reply with quote
when you have like 20 anime a season and about 3 are isekai I don't think you can say they are being pumped out like mad. especially considering other genres exist that have 1000+ episode series. I would say the bigger problem is that alot of popular animes are being made with little to no intention of being completed. it hard to recommend a series to any one when only 1/2 or less of the story is told and the studio hasn't made an announcement on if a show will continue. then they wonder why the profits were bad. they don't even need to make an actual season just a OVA/ONA every few months like "Strike The Blood" has been doing would be enough.
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Erufailon4



Joined: 18 Jun 2019
Posts: 193
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:00 am Reply with quote
This article was one fun read. "But mostly she's collecting dads to Uber her around town" is just too hilariously accurate Laughing
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:22 am Reply with quote
pikabot wrote:
Quote:
Which only means that just because they anime studios pumping Isekai like mad, that does not mean we can pile them up on the "same old, same old" bin.


I mean. We absolutely can.


That is called prejudice and negates the possibility of watching series like Ascendance. Yeah, not every new series is good and you do not have to like any of them at all. But that does not mean we can blind ourselves thinking that prejudice is a review of quality in itself.
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:36 am Reply with quote
Finding it sort of ironic that some people can get irate over some things like slavery but be perfectly OK with effectively forced underage (?) marriage or oppression by the ruling class or hypercapitalism. However, Ascendance is perfectly fine IMO and we agree on that. In both cases the shows acknowledge that these things happen and use that as a springboard for drama and other developments in a very organic manner which is good writing and introduces a healthy dose of reality to an isekai setting. Not everything has to be a diatribe on social issues. Talking about reality in isekai, having seen the Rise of Darth Main, will there be a Main Marx? This was one of my few favorites this season and can't wait to see what happens in S2!!
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2862
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:57 am Reply with quote
Hiroki not Takuya wrote:
hypercapitalism.


Lol, the actual word is feudalism. Sorry, could not help it this time.
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borobor



Joined: 05 Sep 2019
Posts: 18
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:16 pm Reply with quote
maximilianjenus wrote:

That's how well grounded isekai works; bad grounded isekai has a 20+ years old otaku acting like a highschooler, while in medieval style worlds kids should be forced to mature much younger. A similar work has the kids infancy last until they are 5 years old (if theyare lucky) so then they have to start helping around the house/working, that's ignoring that in htier earlier years they were getting trained for their job (learn cooking, to take care of animals, etc...).

I guess isekai is a very different experience if you get started with novels/manga than if you get started with anime, hence why people get so freaked out with slavery.

No 6-year-old acts the way Lutz does, not in any society, not in any point in history. No amount of housework turns a 6-year-old child into an adult.

This isn't a very controversial take, so please don't "correct" me when you haven't even seen the show...
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