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EP. REVIEW: ID: INVADED


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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8867
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:21 pm Reply with quote
Doodleboy wrote:
I also liked how it compared the detective styles of both Anaido and Saikado.

His name his Sakaido. I don't point that out to rag on you, but because it's interesting and, I think, possibly important.

Someone fluent in Japanese can jump in to correct me where I go off the rails, but have a look:

Sakaido 井戸: sake well

Anaido 井戸: hole well

Hijiriido (Miyo) 井戸 (御代): Holy well (imperial reign)

There seem to be several English puns/references in these names, but it's hard to know if that's intended or just me reading into it. I'm not sure why Narihisago's persona references alcohol, but Fukuda's well name is obviously a reference to the hole in his head, while Hondomachi's seems to be both a riff on her self-righteousness as well as a pun on her and Fukuda's head holes. Since Hijiri is not a hole pun in Japanese, I have to think that it's a deliberate reference to the English. Or I'd rather think that, instead of it just being a bizarre coincidence of language. Smile

The -ido (井戸) portion of all three personas is both a pun and a direct reference to the ID wells (which is why the spelling matters). Or I guess you could look at it that calling it an "ID well" is a pun on the pronunciation of "well" in Japanese and the psychology term. Either way, I'm wondering if the term "well" has anything to do with Sakaido's liquor, as in the US at least, the cheap house liquors at the front are called "well drinks" (or "rail drinks" in the UK? ...and now I've come full circle with me going off the rails... Razz).

(and Rebecca thinks she over-analyzes things... Wink)
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Doodleboy



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 276
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:23 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
Or I'd rather think that, instead of it just being a bizarre coincidence of language. Smile

The -ido (井戸) portion of all three personas is both a pun and a direct reference to the ID wells (which is why the spelling matters). Or I guess you could look at it that calling it an "ID well" is a pun on the pronunciation of "well" in Japanese and the psychology term. Either way, I'm wondering if the term "well" has anything to do with Sakaido's liquor, as in the US at least, the cheap house liquors at the front are called "well drinks" (or "rail drinks" in the UK? ...and now I've come full circle with me going off the rails... Razz).

(and Rebecca thinks she over-analyzes things... Wink)


Well considering that the first episode has this line...


You're probably onto something. Wouldn't be the first anime to base itself on puns and usage of multilingual puns *stares at Ikuhara*.
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XerBlade
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Exempt from Grammar rules


Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 158
Location: Depletion Garden, Nashville, TN
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:06 am Reply with quote
It's been a few years since I decided it was worth actually bringing it up, but something that has often bugged me is audience members', and especially critics', tendency to put far too much stock into something that a villain said just to mess with the heroes' heads. Guys, just because a villain says something, that does not mean that is something the teller of the actual story is actually trying to say.
I mean, this isn't quite as egregious as the tendency for audience members to believe things that a villain says for some reason can't possibly be lies and therefore declare later events contradicting them as suddenly being plot holes, but that's just because every audience includes its fair share of idiots.

With that out of the way...

Rebecca Silverman wrote:
It's a nice thought, but it isn't actually true – in most cases, pre-Golden Age detective stories feature both a quirky detective and a savvy cop working together, both responsible for solving different areas of the crime.


That literally describes the entire show as a whole.
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Lord Vaultman



Joined: 03 Mar 2017
Posts: 617
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:39 pm Reply with quote
Episode 9 was messed up in so many glorious ways. I'm really excited to see where things go from here. Just imagine if we get to see something similar with hondomachi next episode.
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Doodleboy



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 276
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:26 pm Reply with quote
Ah Silverman handily explains why Narihisago didn't just shoot the Challenger on site. First I though it was just silly genre macho posturing. Admittedly, after getting hit once he could've just shot him in the head. Like... there was no real reason to give him the fight he wanted.

Wasn't quite as ridiculous as the bullet going through the drill-hole though.

Thinking of the hole motif of the series. Id Wells seem to be the broken parts of people, like there has to be an emptiness somewhere inside you for you to be capable of serial murder (which is why Narihisago can exploit that emptiness to cause serial killers to kill themselves). Also like the well motif that the show uses. It's not a coincidence that the board room of the detective is shaped like a circle where they have to look down to see Saikado, which is itself overlooked by a circular balcony. Not sure where that part ties in thematically yet but it's a neat visual motif that foreshadowed Narihisago being in a well inside a well.

Do like the idea of Johnny Walker not being a real person, beats the theory that he's the director of the project which would be boring.
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Princess_Irene



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
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Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:32 am Reply with quote
Doodleboy wrote:


Do like the idea of Johnny Walker not being a real person, beats the theory that he's the director of the project which would be boring.


My sister firmly believes that Hondomachi isn't real either, that she's some kind of Westworld-style automaton. Then over lunch yesterday, we developed a crackpot theory that Hondomachi is actually Muku with her appearance and memory altered as part of an elaborate plan to entrap Narihisago; that's why Muku's body was so mutilated and why Hondomachi looks so young.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:51 am Reply with quote
Princess_Irene wrote:
we developed a crackpot theory

Hey now, stay in your own lane. Implausible crackpot theories is my wheelhouse! That one's so out there, I'm ashamed I didn't think of it myself. Embarassed Razz
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Doodleboy



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 276
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:40 am Reply with quote
Honestly for the ending theme I think the Ei Aoki went.

"We have sad cops and want to be prestige TV. True Detective has sad cops and is prestige TV. Prestige TV tends to rip off True Detective's opening. Lets's rip off True Detective!"

Kind of wished they changed the imagery for that actually. Abandoned factories, oil fields, highways, and desolate wilderness landscapes have very little to do with the series, unlike the show it's cribbing from. It'd be better if they replaced it with something more surreal, like the abstract geometry of the opening.

Well it does explain at least partially how Momoki knew it was a trap. Somehow he figured out somebody planted some of Narihisago's cognition particles (still kind of silly), in his house. Albeit how he knew that is a question.

The desert world being Narihisago's ID Well does explain how the sand-trap applied so well to Narihisago own struggles. And it makes ID Well Narihisago already falling into hell and succumbing to it very ominous. As well as the end-stage of his well being a wasteland with nobody alive.

Kind of like the time-wankery that ID Wells have. Makes me wonder if Narihisago's ID Well hasn't been resetting since Hondomachi hasn't left, so that's why we entered the late stage.

Wonder if Anaido is working with Johnny Walker, has his own master-plan, or is just trolling. Although by his own ID Well Anaido doesn't seem to have much love for Johnny Walker.

Come to think of it Hondomachi never solved why Kaeru died in this well. Sakaido is going to be solving his own world, that'd be interesting.

Honestly with Kiki Asukai I'm having trouble keeping track of what's going on with her. Her brain seems to be causing the ID Wells and she seems to be able to warp reality with her deterioration. Trying to separate what parts of it is what happened in the real world, and what parts of it are part of the Well World is a tad... confusing... Although with Otaro Maijo I guess you have to accept that.

Actually from Ei Aoki's interviews Otaro Maijo seems to be adjusting the story as he's writing it, instead of starting from an outline. There's a chance that he's just improving right now and he hasn't figured out how everything works yet. Does explains his other novels, although ID Invaded is much tamer by comparison.
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The Scream Man



Joined: 01 Mar 2020
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:32 am Reply with quote
I'm slightly confused as to the "Real" events of Akihiros life.
He was a cop, chasing a serial killer, the Challenger. The Challenger got his daughter, and killed her. Arihiko failed to catch him in time.
Then in sadness over their daughters death, his wife killed herself. And so driven over the edge Akihiro hunted the challenger down and killed him, which led to his imprisonment and his role in the operation?
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FlamingFirewire



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 375
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:13 am Reply with quote
The Scream Man wrote:
I'm slightly confused as to the "Real" events of Akihiros life.
He was a cop, chasing a serial killer, the Challenger. The Challenger got his daughter, and killed her. Arihiko failed to catch him in time.
Then in sadness over their daughters death, his wife killed herself. And so driven over the edge Akihiro hunted the challenger down and killed him, which led to his imprisonment and his role in the operation?


Yeah, that's the long and short of it.
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Sisyphusson66



Joined: 04 Dec 2018
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:10 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
It's just a little disappointing when you consider the possibilities that the series had with its use of ID wells and pseudo-Freudian psychology.


For me, ID has always struggled to make the wells appear to have any direct impact on the actual mystery. The wells are interesting enough, but they offer little to the investigations compared to good, old-fashioned detective work. Even in this episode, the identity of John Walker was discovered not by direct information gathered from the wells, but from the investigations of Narihisago and Hondomachi, as well as the stuff with the picture. While they were in the well-within-a-well, it was basically the same world as their own, just a bit in the past.

I do like though that the chief is pretty much trying to take out those people who could discover him. It makes me actually think it was a misstep to have Matsuoka recommend her to become a brilliant detective, as it would have made more sense for the chief and his movements to "promote" her to that position.
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Lord Vaultman



Joined: 03 Mar 2017
Posts: 617
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:37 pm Reply with quote
I'm not disappointed about John Walker's identity but I'm also not super happy either. Its "good enough". I'm quite interested to see all the information get dropped next episode.
This show has been very enjoyable this far for a seinen.
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Heibi



Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:42 pm Reply with quote
I had it figured out when they gave a closeup of John Walker way back. They were too obvious. I saw the similarities and it was confirmed in episode 11. I do think they made it too easy.
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The Scream Man



Joined: 01 Mar 2020
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:34 pm Reply with quote
There werent really any other possibilities, so I wasnt shocked. SHow is still fun Smile
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Doodleboy



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 276
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:26 pm Reply with quote
The most wasted part was Narihisago and Hondomachi being in their own wells didn't really turn out to be an introspective look on both their characters I was hoping they would be. Instead it turns into game mechanics, go inside your own head and a storm happens, you also regain your memories and time warps.

There's value in explaining mechanics in storytelling, giving the audience some ground to stand on so they know the stakes, but with a subject matter like dreams you have flexibility to be more metaphorical. And mechanics by themselves are boring if they don't do much to advance the theme and characters. If you have literal detectives investigating the metaphors of their own minds I'd be hoping for something more than that. Less Inception, more Paranoia Agent.

It looks like Hondomachi's deal with murder isn't really going to be explored by the time this series is going to end which is a shame. Hondomachi and Perforator is a weird ship (Although I suppose with this genre it's normal). Hopefully TWIA gets to look at the second half so they can get incredibly mad at Hondomachi's ludicrous brain-hole superpowers.

One other note of the Perforator is that his deal seems to be inspired by Aronfosky's Pi movie.

Kiki's plugsuit still feels kind of genre-breaking to me, even with the sci-fi elements the series is trying to be somewhat grounded. It's as if Rei Ayanami guested starred in CSI: Miami. Also wonder why nobody really commented on why Kaeru looks like Kiki before.
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