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NEWS: Live-Action Rurouni Kenshin 'Final Chapter' Films Cast Mackenyu as Enishi


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dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Clemson, SC
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:14 pm Reply with quote
earthisthering wrote:
I have no plans to see this movie, but:

CharonCaori wrote:
If you give money to this, you risk giving money to someone who is gonna support the child porn industry.


My understanding is that under Shueisha's standard contract, manga artists do not receive royalties from live-action movie adaptations. Per fellow Jump artist Sorachi Hideaki, they get absolutely nothing but the one-time payment for the film rights:

Sorachi Hideaki wrote:
To tell the naked truth, regardless of how many people watch the film or how much the gross earnings are, not a single yen goes to the author. We are only paid an upfront license fee. The amount we’re paid is peanuts in comparison to the overall box office gross. The majority of the profits go to filthy unscrupulous companies such as Shueisha [...] Releasing individual manga volumes is way more profitable.


There is certainly a chance that the manga will get new sales if the movie is popular...but that's far from a sure thing, given that any potential readers will get lots of results like "serialization suspended because of the author's awful crimes" when they search for the title.


There is more than a chance, though. Adaptations of manga largely exist to sell manga volumes and/or get eyes on the serial it is published in. Even reboots/side stories like this one and the GTO one.

I don’t think sex offenders are irredeemable, but I also don’t think an apology and ~$2000 fine is going to cut it. He crossed the line and it is not a victimless crime. I think he and his work should be out of the spotlight for quite some time, if for no other reason than to allow him to address his issues before he crosses the line of the Toriko mangaka. Maybe I missed it, but is there any evidence he is even seeking counseling? Is he allowed to go to Jump Fiesta? Appear at other Jump events? Both young boys and girls come to these events. How is fan mail handled?

Thus, while I do feel bad for the professionals involved (they are being paid, regardless of success), I cannot wish well for something that would promote his work.
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DQBunny



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 37
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:41 pm Reply with quote
dragon695 wrote:

I don’t think sex offenders are irredeemable, but I also don’t think an apology and ~$2000 fine is going to cut it. He crossed the line and it is not a victimless crime. I think he and his work should be out of the spotlight for quite some time, if for no other reason than to allow him to address his issues before he crosses the line of the Toriko mangaka. Maybe I missed it, but is there any evidence he is even seeking counseling? Is he allowed to go to Jump Fiesta? Appear at other Jump events? Both young boys and girls come to these events. How is fan mail handled?


Well, that's the thing. We don't know - in large part because we're not in Japan and this is an entirely different culture. How things are handled there different, something that was brought up when the arrest happened in 2017. As acknowledged, the material Watsuki possessed was legal in the not-too-distant past, which also plays into how everything was handled.

What we do know is that the apology was issued, the fine was paid, and serialization was cut between late November 2017 and June 2018. That's a little more than half a year, which is plenty of time of intensive counseling and rehabilitation. Otherwise, for all we know, he could be making significant donations to organizations that fight sexual abuse or other activities to atone for it. It's not like American or UK media where every little thing is publicized by TMZ for publicity grabs.

I highly doubt the Jump editors would have allowed Watsuki to resume his work had there been anymore risk of harm happening. And clearly Japanese fans have not stopped buying the Hokkaido Arc. Volume 1 clocked in at no. 4 in the country just three months after serialization resumed. Volume 3 was no. 5 in its first week of release this past August with 102,051 sales alone.

Forgiveness and redemption are the central themes of Rurouni Kenshin. My own feelings regarding Watsuki are very complicated on this subject, but I believe in those themes. My hope is that he is doing well and that he is still working on his own redemption.
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dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1229
Location: Clemson, SC
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:30 pm Reply with quote
DQBunny wrote:
Well, that's the thing. We don't know - in large part because we're not in Japan and this is an entirely different culture. How things are handled there different, something that was brought up when the arrest happened in 2017. As acknowledged, the material Watsuki possessed was legal in the not-too-distant past, which also plays into how everything was handled.


Um, it said he acquired it in 2015. Pretty sure that was a few years after the new laws went into effect. I know, because there was a lot of concern around 2011-2012 what it might mean for drawn stuff at comiket. Putting that aside, this is not the only issue to so easily dismiss. He has other problematic issues.

DQBunny wrote:
What we do know is that the apology was issued, the fine was paid, and serialization was cut between late November 2017 and June 2018. That's a little more than half a year, which is plenty of time of intensive counseling and rehabilitation. Otherwise, for all we know, he could be making significant donations to organizations that fight sexual abuse or other activities to atone for it. It's not like American or UK media where every little thing is publicized by TMZ for publicity grabs.


With due respect, even simple mental illness is not addressed with 5-6 months of therapy. He needs a LOT of professional help, given this:
Quote:
In his deposition, Watsuki had said that he "liked girls in late elementary school to around the second year of middle school."

That is extremely troubling combine with the act of seeking real cp. If it were lolicon hentai that would be one thing I could defend, but it was not.

DQBunny wrote:
I highly doubt the Jump editors would have allowed Watsuki to resume his work had there been anymore risk of harm happening.


I guess we’ll wait and see. The problem is that he and Toriko’s author crossed lines that indicate predatory behavior and a lack of self-control. Perhaps it will work out, but without serious help and possibly meds, it likely won’t. There is scientific proof of recidivism without ongoing care. Again, no evidence that he is seeking help. I feel Jump does not have a good record here, but only time will tell.

DQBunny wrote:
And clearly Japanese fans have not stopped buying the Hokkaido Arc. Volume 1 clocked in at no. 4 in the country just three months after serialization resumed. Volume 3 was no. 5 in its first week of release this past August with 102,051 sales alone.


They said the same thing about MJ. If anything, it says that being popular helps you avoid being held accountable.

DQBunny wrote:
Forgiveness and redemption are the central themes of Rurouni Kenshin. My own feelings regarding Watsuki are very complicated on this subject, but I believe in those themes. My hope is that he is doing well and that he is still working on his own redemption.


As a former fan, I agree to an extent. But real life isn’t manga. We have to remember that, too. Redemption only comes after necessary and sufficient penance. Reconciliation only after necessary and sufficient truth. I personally feel that neither has been sufficient given the gravity. I respect your and other’s opinions, but we will obviously have to agree to disagree on this matter.
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 1760
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:49 pm Reply with quote
dragon695 wrote:
As Watsuki is still rights holder for Kenshin, I can not in good conscience support this film. Nor do I wish to see it licensed in the west. I personally hope it bombs and that we won’t hear from him again for a long time.


Same; Watsuki's legacy has been irrevocably tainted and he has no one to blame but himself. People can say "But redemption and forgiveness are themes in RuroKen" but real life is not manga and if anything Watsuki's actions make that ring hollow. You can't demand redemption or forgiveness, it has to be earned and often people will never be forgiven.

As for the people working, I don't really blame the actors, directors, or the writers. I mostly blame the studio executives who greenlit this whole thing.
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IdeaOfEvil



Joined: 21 Mar 2012
Posts: 42
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:40 pm Reply with quote
I really enjoyed those first movies, so I hope these follow ups will be just as good.
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russ869



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 350
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:29 pm Reply with quote
I find it interesting that "The Final" will be released before "The Beginning." While the 2nd film is one of my favorite manga-based movies, the pacing on the 3rd film suffered a little due to the deviations from source material. Basically they cut out a lot from the manga, but then that added a bunch of pointless original scenes that cause the 3rd movie drag in the middle. I'm interested to see how they spit the screenplay for this story arc into 2 films.
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Jen Bigby



Joined: 20 May 2013
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:31 pm Reply with quote
WANNFH wrote:
It's just Viz decided to not bring it Hokkaido Arc back to West, and not like I understand the reason why.


American licensing companies seem to love elevate themselves far and above the original Japanese creators and companies at times, hence why they also censor series to be more 'in tuned' with American audiences. But they'll be the first to wag a finger if you dare pirate their works, of course.
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luisedgarf



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 455
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:25 pm Reply with quote
WANNFH wrote:
earthisthering wrote:
There is certainly a chance that the manga will get new sales if the movie is popular...but that's far from a sure thing, given that any potential readers will get lots of results like "serialization suspended because of the author's awful crimes" when they search for the title.
It got back to serialization a few months after though and still being one of the biggest sellers per volume in Japan.

It's just Viz decided to not bring it Hokkaido Arc back to West, and not like I understand the reason why.


Or the U.S. in this case, which also screws other non-English speaking countries which depends from the English translations for doing any kind of work.

Quote:
Same; Watsuki's legacy has been irrevocably tainted and he has no one to blame but himself. People can say "But redemption and forgiveness are themes in RuroKen" but real life is not manga and if anything Watsuki's actions make that ring hollow. You can't demand redemption or forgiveness, it has to be earned and often people will never be forgiven.


Considering Americans rarely forgive anything, that's surely expected, just ask the people from Hiroshima and Nagasaki and how the civilian population felt the wrath of the good ol' Uncle Sam on their skins.
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jellybeanbandit



Joined: 18 Jun 2019
Posts: 69
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:31 pm Reply with quote
AiddonValentine wrote:
Same; Watsuki's legacy has been irrevocably tainted and he has no one to blame but himself. People can say "But redemption and forgiveness are themes in RuroKen" but real life is not manga and if anything Watsuki's actions make that ring hollow. You can't demand redemption or forgiveness, it has to be earned and often people will never be forgiven.


Seems like his legacy is just fine, actually. He's getting movie deals, big promotions at Jump Festa, stage plays, new merchandise. It's only a small group of Americans that seem to have issue with him.
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 2452
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:50 pm Reply with quote
jellybeanbandit wrote:
AiddonValentine wrote:
Same; Watsuki's legacy has been irrevocably tainted and he has no one to blame but himself. People can say "But redemption and forgiveness are themes in RuroKen" but real life is not manga and if anything Watsuki's actions make that ring hollow. You can't demand redemption or forgiveness, it has to be earned and often people will never be forgiven.


Seems like his legacy is just fine, actually. He's getting movie deals, big promotions at Jump Festa, stage plays, new merchandise. It's only a small group of Americans that seem to have issue with him.


Yes god forbid anyone have issue with someone who had literal child porn. We are really clutching at pearls here Rolling Eyes
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 1760
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:31 pm Reply with quote
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:

Yes god forbid anyone have issue with someone who had literal child porn. We are really clutching at pearls here Rolling Eyes


I mean, geez, he had so much the police thought he was a distributor! That's extra icky
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Jefcat



Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Hollywood
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:10 am Reply with quote
Though I can’t speak for her, let me point out that whatever WE think we know about this case, the evidence and Japanese laws and customs, this incident wasn’t enough for Watsuki’s WIFE to divorce him...
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Errinundra
Moderator


Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 5459
Location: Melbourne, Oz
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:04 am Reply with quote
Keep on topic, folks. The article isn't about American licensing companies nor is it about atomic bombs.
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ronri



Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:46 am Reply with quote
Ohh I'm so excited for this. They captured Enishi's appearance dead-on, and I like that they went with a messy/rabid look for his hair since that always seemed like the intention behind his character and was even reflected in his conceptual redesign.
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Jefcat



Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Hollywood
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:16 pm Reply with quote
I am thrilled that Jinchu is finally being brought to life. Long overdue.
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