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NEWS: Interspecies Reviewers Anime's Airing on Kobe's Sun TV Canceled


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kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 1205
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:18 pm Reply with quote
AkumaChef wrote:
At a casual glance I could see how someone might feel that Reviewers is offensive. After all, the whole premise is guys rating the service of prostitutes so it would seem like the show would be nothing but the objectification of women, but in reality it is very different.

I dunno, man. Admittedly, I have not seen this anime, but I have seen this exact argument used to defend many seemingly-objectionable shows. For example, there's the common insistence that Kill La Kill is actually feminist, because a female protagonist being coerced into fighting wearing sentient clothing (with a masculine voice) that drinks her blood and powers her up by becoming extremely fanservicey is... empowering, or whatever. Not trying to hate on the show or its fans here, but come on.

I'm sure that some aspects of Reviewers could be construed as progressive; hardly anything is really 100% offensive and terrible. Kill La Kill has a female protagonist in a fighting series, that counts for something. But there's no getting away from the fact that the core concept is, as you said, guys rating the service of prostitutes. There are more cans of worms in those six words than I'd care to count. It's fine to watch shows like that if you want to, but acting like it's a forward-thinking positive influence on the world only undermines things that genuinely deserve credit for pushing the envelope. Sometimes (usually) a lewd anime is just a lewd anime.

The other red flag for me is that its de-platforming (but not cancellation) has sparked a massive controversy, seemingly far larger than the show's actual fanbase before Funimation dropped it. (Not talking about you specifically, more the "angry Youtuber" demographic.) And it looks an awful lot like that thing that happens whenever the more devoted fans of Western gender-role standards feel they are under attack... I mean, they always feel like that, but their preferred anecdotal evidence changes every week or two. Sexy anime get censored for broadcast all the time; pulling a show off the air entirely is rare, but I can't think of a plausible reason why people would be so upset over this besides, y'know, conservatism. Which is an opinion they are allowed to have, much as I disagree with it. But this definitely defies the claim that this show doesn't promote old-fashioned values about gender relations.
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harminia



Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Posts: 1987
Location: australia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:18 pm Reply with quote
Animegunclub wrote:
And if anime licensing is anything similar to manga licensing, I think they probably lost their rights to distribute the home video release by renigging on their contract to stream the series. If they wanted to disto it for home release, they'd probably have to renegotiate for a new contract and at this point I doubt they will.

Not 100% sure that's how it went, but I'm willing to bet that they no longer have the rights to sell the eventual bluray (and it's rights are open game in NA right now)


No one beyond those involved in the deal know what the contract stated. So we don't know if they did anything bad that would cause them to lose the license or if they still keep it.
Considering AnimeLab is owned by Aniplex (as is Funi), and AL is still streaming it, I'd say they still have a contract.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5888
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:47 pm Reply with quote
mangamuscle wrote:
Not at all. If the japanese TV stations had canceled the series and then funimation had followed suit then no one would have said anything, but as things stand one has to question whether Tokyo MX and Kobe Sun would have cancelled if Funimation (which now belongs to Sony) had not.


The show is in effect a hentai I'd almost guarantee it would've had problems staying on TV in Japan even without the Funimation issue.

mangamuscle wrote:


Clarified your post.


.....Sony is still a company that originated in Japan even if they moved their headquarters to the U.S. so this is even more of a reach than the above post especially when there isn't anything tying Funimation's actions to Sony's policy regarding games that contain certain content on their PlayStation platform.
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Animegunclub



Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 127
Location: AyeTeeEl, Jawhjah
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:54 pm Reply with quote
harminia wrote:
No one beyond those involved in the deal know what the contract stated. So we don't know if they did anything bad that would cause them to lose the license or if they still keep it.
Considering AnimeLab is owned by Aniplex (as is Funi), and AL is still streaming it, I'd say they still have a contract.


Of course not, but license conjecture is always fun.

I know manga publishing contracts are pretty stringent on terms and bundle for different distribution, so if you bow out or don't meet an agreed upon clause in the contract, the whole thing can get yanked and you have to renegotiate. Probably different with anime, but also possibly not.
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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 821
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:15 pm Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:

I dunno, man. Admittedly, I have not seen this anime, but I have seen this exact argument used to defend many seemingly-objectionable shows. For example, there's the common insistence that Kill La Kill is actually feminist, because a female protagonist being coerced into fighting wearing sentient clothing (with a masculine voice) that drinks her blood and powers her up by becoming extremely fanservicey is... empowering, or whatever. Not trying to hate on the show or its fans here, but come on.


I can't comment on Kill La Kill because I don't know the first thing about it.
I'm certainly not claiming that Reviewers is 100% progressive, I'm simply saying that making specific accusations about a show you haven't even seen makes little sense. That's categorically wrong no matter what show it is.

As for Reviewers specifically? I think it's a sex comedy. It's no porno, but it's certainly for adults. I expected a bawdy sex comedy...and that's what I got, with a surprising level of progressivism thrown in. It's not some 100% progressive masterpiece, but neither is it the big bad devil that many make it out to be, especially those who haven't seen it.
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Animegunclub



Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 127
Location: AyeTeeEl, Jawhjah
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:25 pm Reply with quote
AkumaChef wrote:
While the consequences may be different the two are both the same error, are they not? Making assumptions without information? Or, to take the word "prejudice" literally....making a judgement before one has the facts? Please explain what you mean if you think my use of the term in that manner is fallacious.


If I'm prejudice towards a piece of media, there is no moral detriment to my character. I'm simply adhering to what precedence I've experienced with similar works upon one work. Prior experience with similar works can let me know if something is right or wrong for me.

If I'm prejudice towards a group of people, there's a severe detriment to my character. Because, I'm applying an overarching judgement towards a whole group of people based on an experience or belief grown from one person.

Also, I can't believe it needs to be stated but
People are human beings.
Media is just entertainment.

Not even remotely the same error.
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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 821
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:51 pm Reply with quote
Animegunclub wrote:

If I'm prejudice towards a piece of media, there is no moral detriment to my character.


We can agree to disagree, and just to be 100% clear I mean no disrespect.
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#898031



Joined: 07 Jul 2019
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:53 pm Reply with quote
Animegunclub wrote:
I mean, if you're going to get into discussing women-as-objects in a show that's about consensual sex work, then you're getting into a thorny subject. If someone chooses to work in sex work, they are still an employee and get paid off of capitalizing on their body. The culture around that is always going to be objectifying. The money received is compensation for having to deal with that.

And I am glad that there's a show that's willing to be absolutely honest about sex work and even play with the concept in a normalizing brand of humor. Sex is funny, full stop. This show realizes that and stands on the pedal which is why people enjoy it. If people reviewing sex workers (which happens all the time even in sex work that doesn't explicitly contain prostitution) makes you uncomfortable, that's fine. That sort of content isn't for you, and nothing's wrong with that.

On a side note
Stunk is still regularly sexually harassing Meidori, the birdmaid waitress at the pub they frequent, which is clearly non-consensual. To say that everything in the show is consensual and it doesn't play into any normal ecchi show stereotypes is unfortunately wrong.


Most people don’t really chose to work in sex work. It’s usually because they have no other option. To say it’s consensual is also wrong. It’s not like they want to have sex. They need to in order to survive. This is talking about real life.
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BodaciousSpacePirate
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Joined: 17 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:41 pm Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:
For example, there's the common insistence that Kill La Kill is actually feminist, because a female protagonist being coerced into fighting wearing sentient clothing (with a masculine voice) that drinks her blood and powers her up by becoming extremely fanservicey is... empowering, or whatever. Not trying to hate on the show or its fans here, but come on.


Not to get too side-tracked, but there's a really interesting installment of "My Fave is Problematic" that functions as a sort of retrospective on all the arguments for and against Kill la Kill being "feminist":

https://www.animefeminist.com/my-fave-is-problematic-kill-la-kill/

It makes a few points about blanket labels that I feel are somewhat pertinent to the Western anime community's current back-and-forth discussions about whether this show is "sex-positive" or not.
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Shar Aznabull



Joined: 12 Jan 2015
Posts: 236
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:50 pm Reply with quote
Whoever ends up picking this show up for physical release is going to have an easy time marketing it. "Too hot for Japanese TV!" Laughing
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FLCLGainax





PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:27 pm Reply with quote
If it weren't for all the controversy, I'd have no interest in this show. But now I want to check it out just to see if I get offended.
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Charou



Joined: 01 May 2018
Posts: 123
Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:30 pm Reply with quote
Hiroki not Takuya wrote:
Lizuka wrote:
First I've even heard of this show but doing some research on it and the stuff around it this sounds, like, genuinely gross. I can take a sex comedy - Shimoneta is absolutely hilarious - but this just feels really disgusting and pretty much dripping with all kinds of horrible, "Women are objects," vibes. I'm really not surprised everybody is cancelling this thing.
I'll add my voice that you should watch the show before deciding how much "horrible" it is, as it is a good sex comedy similar to Shimoneta in spirit. There are instances where characters specifically talk about NOT objectifying women and that a successful sexual encounter is one where your partner's pleasure is key. Elsewhere the show portrays the "reviewers" as enacting that concept, no women get hurt (sometimes the reviewers do...) everyone has some sort of pleasure and it's all consensual. When the show shows Midiri being teased (harrassed?) the perp(s) get severe punishment thus showing the audience that sort of male behavior is not to be tolerated. And, unlike Plunderers, the harassment is very infrequent and not an integral component of the show so it's clear it's not intended to be normalized. I rate it well worth a watch for discerning adults...


+1. It's the ONLY hentai I've even vaguely liked since Urotsukidouji, which much like IR is sort of one type of show/anime trapped inside another. And, like IR, Uro drips with quality.

The fiancee and I *love* IR and consider ourselves blessed we live in Australia, where we can watch the censored version every Sunday on Animelab and use our imaginations until we grab it another way later. Heck, she even went so far as to follow the translator for IR on twitter because that person does an absolutely incredible job localising it. Probably the best I've seen since O Maidens In Your Savage Season, which I believe was the same localiser.

Beatdigga wrote:
The divisions are another thing that reminds me of Big Mouth TBH.

Seriously, this show is ideal Netflix material.


Except Netflix subs are *awful*. They rarely even translate the episode titles (see Saiki K). The only anime subs I've seen on there that are any good were for Fate/Apocrypha and I suspect that's because Aniplex had more than a slight hand in it, given the international bluray release used the exact same subs. How many 'Netflix original' anime get a bluray release? The subs are so much further down their list of priorities than with traditional anime streamers.

And IR uses a lot of wordplay. A lot of context. Rote translation of IR would seriously reduce the entertainment value.

So no, this show would be *murdered* on Netlfix.
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harminia



Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Posts: 1987
Location: australia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:38 pm Reply with quote
Charou wrote:
Probably the best I've seen since O Maidens In Your Savage Season, which I believe was the same localiser.


Yeah, same translator!
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Charou



Joined: 01 May 2018
Posts: 123
Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:47 pm Reply with quote
harminia wrote:
Charou wrote:
Probably the best I've seen since O Maidens In Your Savage Season, which I believe was the same localiser.


Yeah, same translator!


I know, I just didn't want to be...too forceful about it. Still, we watched an uncensored episode with someone else's subs and it just wasn't the same. We also recently learned through her tweets that a certain streaming service pays its translators peanuts compared to others, so I think it's important to remember just how much impact good localisation can have. As I noted above, Netflix's inferior subs made the otherwise brilliant Saiki K unpalatable. That's a feat.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18138
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:15 pm Reply with quote
Animegunclub wrote:
If I'm prejudice towards a piece of media, there is no moral detriment to my character. I'm simply adhering to what precedence I've experienced with similar works upon one work. Prior experience with similar works can let me know if something is right or wrong for me.

While I agree with your statement here in principal, the italicized part is where your logic is faulty in this particular case. I've seen (and reviewed!) a lot of ecchi anime shows over the years, including most of the titles that would rank among the raciest non-hentai titles that have ever been made, so I can say with confidence that there isn't anything out there in anime that's very similar to IR. It's a genre-bending show, so making assumptions about it based on what people think might be similar titles will lead people astray.

But that's why we have reviewers, isn't it? So that people can look at what people who have actually watched the series are saying about it and can determine if their tastes line up with the reviewers. Having watched all of it do date, I think anyone who likes non-anime sex comedies and isn't totally put off by the prostitution angle will probably love this one, even those that might normally be averse to the most typical anime-style fan service.
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