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INTEREST: LaLaport Numazu Removes 'Sexualizing' Panel of Love Live! Sunshine!!'s Chika

nargun wrote:

So they're making drawings that emphasise the location of the vagina on characters intended to be seen as underage because they want to make drawings with arrows pointing to exactly where your penis would go if they were real people you could fudge. Dude, that's the accusation, not a defence.

Trying to fight the tide on high schoolers being portrayed like that in anime or related works seems like a fruitless endeavor to me. Regardless, I was addressing a specific criticism about realism. This is a completely different discussion.

No it's not, although understanding the reason why it's the same discussion may require the application of a bit of logic.

Thus. If the statement "the art is deliberately unrealistic" is true, then it remains true when you substitute the actual way the art is unrealistic for the word "unrealistic". In this case, the way the art is unrealistic is that it's drawn with a great big arrow pointing to a teenage girl's sexy bits, in a way that real skirts don't behave like. I think that much is undisputed, but it's certainly part of the discussion, no?

So we can replace unrealistic with drawn with a great big arrow pointing to a teenage girl's sexy bits, and the resulting statement remains equally true. Or equally false, either way. If you prefer syllogisms:
+ "the art is deliberately unrealistic" [your position]
+ "the art is unrealistic because it's drawn with a great big arrow pointing to a teenage girl's sexy bits" [plain observable reality]
+ "the art is deliberately drawn with a great big arrow pointing to a teenage girl's sexy bits" [your position, restated in context]

I mean, you're not arguing that the drawing unrealistically-but-deliberately includes three legs or has her hair coloured purple, because neither of those things are actually there. The actual unrealism that people are talking about, and thus the actual unrealism that you are saying is included deliberately, is the aforementioned "penis goes here" arrow, no? And, well, if it's an artistically valid decision to draw it that way then there's a reason to draw it that way and we'd kind of like you to tell us what you think that reason is.

No, no, you got it backwards.

This is a perfectly fine and innocent image. If you live here long enough, Japanese teenagers roll up their uniform skirts to ridiculous short lengths all the time.

However, if you actually see this image as erotic or obscene for some reason, maybe it's you who needs to "re-evaluate your life choices?"

But in all seriousness, people don't seem to understand that it's not the content we're standing up for, it's against the censorship of content that a minority of people dislike because they find it too objectionable. It's the principle of things, you know? I might find a ton of things disagreeable (like your opinions in general), but I think it's perfectly fine for them to be expressed.

Is this artist known for doing stuff like this? I don't know who the artist is.

An exaggerated skirt fold doesn't make a piece of artwork "profoundly shitty", especially given the stylization of the entire image. Insulting the artist is unnecessary. They likely do know how it works, and just like those boob sock shirts made an aesthetic choice; a perfectly valid one, even if it isn't to your taste. The argument that it needs to be realistic because he's drawing something that exists in real life doesn't hold up when the character's eyes are the size of golf balls and her nose is a dot. Human faces also exist in real life, and they look nothing like that. This extremely selective enforcement of real life accuracy in stylized images has never been anything more than a lazy, dishonest potshot at subject matter people disapprove of.

Guys, cool it with the quote chains. It's one of Teh Rules.

If seeing the outline of Chika’s crotch is considered offensive these days, then we have our priorities messed up.

Also, if a male character was featured in an event wearing clothing that would slightly reveal his crotch, would anyone really care?

Of course not.

Crispy45 wrote:

NiPah wrote: Ironically the initial outrage came from a Japanese model living in California, and boosted by an American living in Japan, personally I believe this is more a reaction to internet outrage then anyone living in Numazu. I still think it’s a shame and quite the over reaction to pretty tame imagery. It's not that ironic. Expats, JETs, and forigners in general are always complaining about things like this and trying to stir the pot. Every week it seems like I read about some foreigner living in Japan getting into discourse with Japanese Twitter and being dogpiled on by Japanese people to the point that they have to go into protected mode to lie low for a bit. The worst I saw was someone trying to cancel Kyary Pamyu Pamyu a few months ago and getting absolute ravaged by her fanbase for it. As usual, the overwhelmingly majority of Japanese people had no issue with this poster, but the general idea is to get a lot of foreign attention on things like this and hopes it shames Japan into doing what they want. It really only works when they go after small targets like this though. A store that isn't used to being in public discourse can easily be spooked into caving into your demands with enough noise. But every time something like this happens I notice more and more people pushing back against it and being more and more vocal about it. All this really does in the end is make Japanese people hate foreigners even more.

It's almost like expats and JETs need to do a ton of research before taking the plane, boat, whatever to Japan. It would cut down on the senseless outrage nonsense.

...did you just Godwin teenage girl junk? Because I must say that's a bold rhetorical strategy.

Also, if a male character was featured in an event wearing clothing that would slightly reveal his crotch, would anyone really care?

Have you guys ever met any JETs and expats in Japan, or what gives you the right to generalize people like that?
I was a JET for three years and I don't remember having met another JET or expat who would go on a moral crusade about such trivial matter in anime/manga pop culture, seriously.

Haha, I like how that's your only take away.

If someone doesn't want to see highlighted girl crotch, their only choice would be to avoid the store entirely which is...somewhat counterproductive for a marketing tie-in.

Sure. That's their prerogative. You have to remember that no matter how benign something is, there will always be its detractors. If we were to heed each and every person who feels offended by something or another, there will be absolutely nothing left for the rest of us. In our relentless bid to be as inclusive as possible, we've ironically excluded everyone. Everyone has a right to be offended by something, but they should not have a right to dictate what should or should not be allowed to be expressed or enjoyed by others.

(Oh, you're also forgetting that controversy in and of itself is a great marketing strategy.)

You have to remember that no matter how benign something is, there will always be its detractors. If we were to heed each and every person who feels offended by something or another, there will be absolutely nothing left for the rest of us.

This isn't "I don't like this character design because her hair color is weird," this is "I don't like this character design because it deliberately sexualizes an underage girl in a bizarre way for no good reason." That is a perfectly reasonable complaint to make. Again, if you like this particular style, go buy some character goods or doujin featuring it and knock yourself out. It doesn't belong in mass-market promo material.

There's nothing benign about sexualizing underage women.

You're defending something that a large number of people feel is repugnant.

Let me repeat that so we're clear: You're defending something that a large number of people feel is repugnant. You're not a majority being repressed by a minority.