Forum - View topic
INTEREST: Yaoi Manga Artist Hatoko Machiyo Issues Statement on Scanslations


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
cookiemanstah



Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 252
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:08 am Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:

harminia wrote:
There are some pirate sites that have membership deals, like how some anime pirate sites have special premium membership stuff too.
Or even without directly paying an illegal manga reader site, using them allows them to earn ad revenue. Even those using adblock software help the sites increase their traffic counts and wring more out of the ads that do go through to other users. And just as most anime piracy has shifted from downloading video files to watching bootleg streams, most manga piracy has shifted from downloading .zip/.rar archives to reading on illegal aggregator sites.

im pretty skeptical on most people being gullible or stupid enough to use KissAnime or something similar to where you can make the claim it is somehow outweighing torrenting. I always imagined from word of old IRC crews I used to hang with, torrenting is a lesser and safer evil if you know what to do. And also you keep your things forever at the best quality beneath retail copies.

I'll admit that's at the least where/how I got almost all my visual novels.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kirki



Joined: 11 Jun 2019
Posts: 94
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:40 am Reply with quote
How capitalism works: Anything that doesn't benefit the industry WILL disappear.

So the fact that piracy still exists means it ultimately does something beneficial even if that doesn't appear to be so in the first place. Everything else is just food for thought without much actual impact. Yaoi mangas are neither usually accessible nor do they have a wide enough audience to bring much profit to each individual author. I understand the complaints and the bitterness but it seems like a tough reality the authors will have to put up with until another kind of solution comes up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Horsefellow



Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 64
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:27 am Reply with quote
Kirki wrote:
How capitalism works: Anything that doesn't benefit the industry WILL disappear.

So the fact that piracy still exists means it ultimately does something beneficial even if that doesn't appear to be so in the first place. Everything else is just food for thought without much actual impact. Yaoi mangas are neither usually accessible nor do they have a wide enough audience to bring much profit to each individual author. I understand the complaints and the bitterness but it seems like a tough reality the authors will have to put up with until another kind of solution comes up.


People need to accept piracy as part of the industry and learn to adjust to. Many creators and companies have, but many have also not. Ask yourself why someone would pay a pirate site over a real site. I don't do that, but the fact some people do should show it's not always about wanting things for free and must be some kind of service issue going on. In this case it's because this title isn't available in English. Simple as that. Not much you can do about that other than ask someone to license and sell it here, but yaoi titles are a bit iffy here, especially the less popular ones. I do find it a big scapegoat when creators try to blame piracy for why their series doesn't sell well. Some creators seem adamant that their title would be selling millions if it wasn't for those gosh darn pirate sites. But I guess that's an easier way to think than the alternative of admitting that maybe their work is just not that interesting enough to draw a crowd. Curious how for some strange reason piracy never effects series like One Piece or Kimetsu no Yaiba to the point of cancellation, or other popular titles that sell well despite tons of people still pirating it. WSJ titles in particularly often get leaked early from Korea/China before the street date and scanned before it can even officially come out.

Personally, if you're going to pirate I say just torrent. No aggregate site gets money and you get the actual file on your hard drive to do whatever with, like take screenshots or make video clips which most streaming services block you from doing, which is dumb. But most people who pirate don't even know or care they're pirating, they just click the first link a search engine takes them to when they type in "read (manga name) free" which half the time is a pirate site depending on the SEO.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cookiemanstah



Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 252
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:50 am Reply with quote
Horsefellow wrote:

Personally, if you're going to pirate I say just torrent. No aggregate site gets money and you get the actual file on your hard drive to do whatever with, like take screenshots or make video clips which most streaming services block you from doing, which is dumb.

you torrent without the necessary precautions you're in for a world of pain. Besides that yes it's cool.

Most people don't know these precautions because elitists like to cultivate this atmosphere of no spoonfeeding. Which leads to streaming...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sherris



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 245
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:10 am Reply with quote
cookiemanstah wrote:
Horsefellow wrote:

Personally, if you're going to pirate I say just torrent. No aggregate site gets money and you get the actual file on your hard drive to do whatever with, like take screenshots or make video clips which most streaming services block you from doing, which is dumb.

you torrent without the necessary precautions you're in for a world of pain. Besides that yes it's cool.

Most people don't know these precautions because elitists like to cultivate this atmosphere of no spoonfeeding. Which leads to streaming...

spoiler[Huh? What pain? Nobody uploads porn-disguised-as-an-anime-episode to Nyaa or AnimeTosho. Stick to anime/manga-only sites and you're fine.]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Narutofreak1412



Joined: 22 Feb 2015
Posts: 302
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:23 am Reply with quote
Sherris wrote:

spoiler[Huh? What pain? Nobody uploads porn-disguised-as-an-anime-episode to Nyaa or AnimeTosho. Stick to anime/manga-only sites and you're fine.]


I think he refers to that people can get in trouble, because their IP is openly visible while torrenting.
It's very unlikely to get in trouble if you are from a non-english speaking country and you are loading some english fansubs, because if it's localized, the publisher only can go after distributions of media in the same language they have the rights for. And foreign publishers are usually not going through the trouble of tracking down individuals all over the world.
But if you are loading licensed stuff, especially things like DVD/BD encodes of releases from your own country, without precautions you can get in some real trouble.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tempest
ANN Publisher & CEO


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 9723
Location: Do not message me for support.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:47 am Reply with quote
Kirki wrote:
How capitalism works: Anything that doesn't benefit the industry WILL disappear.
That's actually not how capitalism works. If anything, it's "anything that consumers don't want will dissapear." Piracy will certainly continue regardless of whether or not it benefits the industry.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime My Manga
Puniyo



Joined: 08 Oct 2015
Posts: 211
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:02 am Reply with quote
The piracy debate isn't even relevant here. Even if you think piracy benefits the industry in some way, you should still agree that it's dumb to PAY for pirated content in any shape or form. Isn't the point to not pay?

Source translations of unlicensed manga from the translators/scanalators themselves, it's only a little more effort and it's much less damaging to the artist. Plus at least the scanalator is actually doing some work - aggregate sites aren't only just ripping off the original artist, they're even piggybacking off the scanalator's hard work, too (most of which actually prohibit the uploading of their scans to such sites). If you pay for a membership or ad removal from an aggregate site, even the scanlator/translator isn't seeing that money.

cookiemanstah wrote:

im pretty skeptical on most people being gullible or stupid enough to use KissAnime or something similar to where you can make the claim it is somehow outweighing torrenting. I always imagined from word of old IRC crews I used to hang with, torrenting is a lesser and safer evil if you know what to do. And also you keep your things forever at the best quality beneath retail copies.

I'll admit that's at the least where/how I got almost all my visual novels.


most people are 100% dumb enough or even grossly proud of the fact they use kissanime.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cookiemanstah



Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 252
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:47 am Reply with quote
wow im honestly shocked how many of you in this comment section even on this morally upstanding site basically admitted to pirating and admitting consequences are in the usual -1/10 scenario. Not really because I think you're all villains, but more marveling at how in one way or another, the West in its entirety just pirates anime.

So I want to ask: how is there even a legal business surviving in America? If everyone just steals and Aniplex will keep up with their monster prices (yes i know it's unedited from JP retail), it seems like anime as a legitimate business here should have just collapsed a while ago.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 1389
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:41 am Reply with quote
cookiemanstah wrote:
wow im honestly shocked how many of you in this comment section even on this morally upstanding site basically admitted to pirating and admitting consequences are in the usual -1/10 scenario. Not really because I think you're all villains, but more marveling at how in one way or another, the West in its entirety just pirates anime.

So I want to ask: how is there even a legal business surviving in America? If everyone just steals and Aniplex will keep up with their monster prices (yes i know it's unedited from JP retail), it seems like anime as a legitimate business here should have just collapsed a while ago.
That's easy, ANN's readership and forum userbase are a teeny teeny teeny-tiny pico-iota of the Western fanbase, most of which just sticks to talking about anime with their friends and maybe a bit on Facebook. And those people pay for their shows because they're only aware of official channels. Even if they're cognizant of the existence of illicit streaming sites and torrenting, they don't bother with it because it's illegal and dangerous and virus/ad-laden and so on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Florete



Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:02 pm Reply with quote
cookiemanstah wrote:
wow im honestly shocked how many of you in this comment section even on this morally upstanding site basically admitted to pirating and admitting consequences are in the usual -1/10 scenario. Not really because I think you're all villains, but more marveling at how in one way or another, the West in its entirety just pirates anime.

So I want to ask: how is there even a legal business surviving in America? If everyone just steals and Aniplex will keep up with their monster prices (yes i know it's unedited from JP retail), it seems like anime as a legitimate business here should have just collapsed a while ago.

I think you may made some leaps here (or was it sarcasm?), but people aren't necessarily "all piracy" or "all legal."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2185
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:20 pm Reply with quote
Agreed, I know a lot of guys who own 2-4 subscriptions, buy 10+ discs per year, but still consume more anime than that can afford, mostly because of waits, like downloading rips of movies and downloading anime series that don't get licensed,a re censored or are outside their subscriptions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kirki



Joined: 11 Jun 2019
Posts: 94
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:32 am Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:
Kirki wrote:
How capitalism works: Anything that doesn't benefit the industry WILL disappear.
That's actually not how capitalism works. If anything, it's "anything that consumers don't want will dissapear." Piracy will certainly continue regardless of whether or not it benefits the industry.


I think that is consumerism.

Not that it's irrelevant, on the contrary.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DavetheUsher



Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 359
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:51 am Reply with quote
Puniyo wrote:
The piracy debate isn't even relevant here. Even if you think piracy benefits the industry in some way, you should still agree that it's dumb to PAY for pirated content in any shape or form. Isn't the point to not pay?


These days? Yeah, you're kinda dumb you pay for pirated chapters or episodes. No excuse when it's so easy to find them for free. Back in the day? Pre highspeed internet? It depended. I'm not sure if you count bootlegs in the same category as piracy, but back when most people had dial-up and only a select few had access to cable or DSL, they'd burn stuff to a disk and sell it on eBay or other sites for a quick buck. People who only had dial up would give a dude 10 bucks for a burned CD with episode files on it, or they'd buy burned games, movies, music, shows, etc off a friend at school who had a CD burner which were kinda pricey at the time. Then you had those Hong Kong DVD sets which had like 50 episodes on 4 disks and the subs were those ugly yellow machine translated ones which were popular for awhile. In those instances people did pay for unofficial stuff since readily available archives of episodes online wasn't really a thing.

cookiemanstah wrote:
So I want to ask: how is there even a legal business surviving in America? If everyone just steals and Aniplex will keep up with their monster prices (yes i know it's unedited from JP retail), it seems like anime as a legitimate business here should have just collapsed a while ago.


Same reason physical can still exist today in the rising era of digital only. Collectors want official, physical copies. The average person who just wants to read a chapter or watch an episode will just do so online, legally or illegally. Collectors who want it on their shelf to own for the rest of time will pay for that luxury. That's why there's always so much complaining when Netflix or Crunchyroll doesn't do a physical release for a show.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cookiemanstah



Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 252
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:16 am Reply with quote
DavetheUsher wrote:
Collectors who want it on their shelf to own for the rest of time will pay for that luxury.

hard drives can mean you can keep something forever as well tho?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group